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User Topic: What is your take on this???
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH has low testosterone. He gets injections once every 10 days.

One of his employees that has been a nurse gives them to him.

I have told him that that is inappropriate - that couldn't I learn to do that?

So, yesterday, he brings all the "stuff" (needles, vial, alcohol prep pads) home for me to start giving the shots. I was practically in tears - thinking that he was finally going to respect my feelings about this.

I asked why he was bringing all this home now. He said that his employee mentioned to her lawyer brother that she was giving my WH the shot. The brother told her she shouldn't - that if something went wrong, she could be liable.

So much for doing it for me.

I asked if he didn't think it was disrespectful for him to involve a 3rd party in something like that - was that not personal between us? He said, "It is just a low level hormone and she has been trained to give shots." (Of course he asked me to do it yeswterday, and I have had ZERO training.)

Last night he said something about his arm hurting all day. I knew he was just teasing about me giving him the shot. I replied that it served him right because he had me do it out of necessity - not to respect my feelings. I told him --- what is left for me?

His sister does x, y, and z for him, his employee gave him testosterone shots...what is left for a "wife"??? Feeding him???

Of course, we went to sleep "not speaking".


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My take? It's very hurtful.

It's hurtful when something happens that should be for us but it isn't. Your H saying he brought his kit home because she wouldn't give the shots anymore probably felt like a punch in the gut (sorry for the violent analogy). It is just very defeating.

If your H can't respect your feelings and can't leave things between the two of you, it must feel like you aren't important or relevant. I'm sorry - that's no way to be.

Maybe some 180 would be good for you - give you the independence that he seems to feel.

((((WhatsRight))))


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
KatieG
♀ Member
Member # 41222
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Truthfully, your assumption that he was doing it for you was exactly that - an assumption. He gave you the truthful reason but you are hurt by that.

Could you flip it around and be grateful that he has told you the truth?

Imagine if he said, "I want you to do it because you asked me" and then you find out the real reason.

Isn't that what you want - honesty?


DD#1 - 6th Oct 13 - TT
DD#2 - 9th Nov 13 - Full disclosure
DD#3 - 12th May 14 - FOG lifted and in R
7 week A, 2 weeks together, rest phone and email - PA and EA

Posts: 441 | Registered: Nov 2013
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I so appreciate your empathy!

But, I was wondering how you view the shot thing. Am I off base? Is it inappropriate to let an "outsider" give him the shot? (There is nothing inappropriate between them otherwise.)

Or am I just being overly sensitive because we don't have any closeness or anything reserved for just us?

I have found that I don't trust my feelings about things any more.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
cantgetup
♀ Member
Member # 36146
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On so many, many levels, this was wrong. I
I couldn't even believe what I was reading, so
I had to read it a few times. I'm utterly speechless.

Posts: 314 | Registered: Jul 2012
KatieG
♀ Member
Member # 41222
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe another way to look at it would be - what would you have done?

If you know someone who used to be a nurse and was willing to do it - would you let them?

Or would you think it was inappropriate?


DD#1 - 6th Oct 13 - TT
DD#2 - 9th Nov 13 - Full disclosure
DD#3 - 12th May 14 - FOG lifted and in R
7 week A, 2 weeks together, rest phone and email - PA and EA

Posts: 441 | Registered: Nov 2013
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

KatieG...

Sorry...our posts crossed.


Could you flip it around and be grateful that he has told you the truth?

Yes. I have to say that I was glad he told me the truth. After he said that he brought it home because she wasn't going to do it anymore, I said, "Oh, I was thinking it might be because you knew it felt wierd to me that she was doing it." (Or something along those lines.)

He immediately said, "I was planning on bringing it home anyway."

I don't think this was a "LIE" persay. I think he realized it hurt my feelings again, and wanted to make me feel better.

I appreciate your perspective - and I do believe I should appreciate every truth I am told.

But, I have actually written this thread to get other BS perspectives on whether I am being overly sensitive about the employee giving him the shots in the first place.

What do you think?


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I think is inappropriate is him discounting your feelings on the subject and ignoring your issues. Had he conveyed that he understands your feelings, but he'd like you to understand that he isn't all that comfortable with receiving shots, and since he has someone that has been trained in giving shots he would really prefer that she give him the shot. He could have invited you to the shot - perhaps asking you to bring the supplies when it was shot day instead of leaving it all at the office - so that you were involved. It sounds like he ignored how you felt and did what he wanted.

I think that shots of this nature are a bit more personal, and that if you were interested, he should have involved you.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 6:43 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On so many, many levels, this was wrong. I
I couldn't even believe what I was reading

If you know someone who used to be a nurse and was willing to do it - would you let them?


This is one thing I love about this place (SI). So many different views.

Honestly, my husband did say from the start that he asked her to do it because she was a nurse. Also, I have had male friends that I would have trusted with this task - if the roles were reversed. But I think I would have wanted to keep it personal. I would have asked my husband how he felt about some other man giving estrogen shots to me. If he was uncomfortable with it, I would have gone to the doctor for them.

(My husband would be unable to do it due to disability).

Part of this, as I think I might have mentioned, is that we really don't have a "marriage relationship" and I guess I might be hanging on to anything that would be "just between us".

I have to say that I honestly don't believe he intentionally tries to hurt me.

I DO think that our relationship is not important to him, so he doesn't place any significance on something being "just for us".

That is a tough realization.

That is why I was asking for other viewpoints. I am actually hoping I am making something more out of this than it really is.

Is there anything really wrong with him asking her to give him the shots? Again, they are not involved in any way, and she is a nurse.

I can't trust my barometer any more.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painfulpast...

It was a punch in the gut.

I was even surprised that I could still feel that way.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
Take2
♀ Member
Member # 23890
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think you are being overly sensitive - he is being insensitive. Honesty is great, but when it reveals you have a problem, in this case a lack of concern for your feelings on the matter, well, you've got a problem.

One thing I've done all my life is attribute excuses for other people's insensitivity - always looking for the potentially good or reasonable excuse for poor behavior (big mistake). Anyway, in your case, my first thought was, well maybe it is precisely because of the nature of the shot that he doesn't want his wife doing it (makes him feel less manly...). A nurse keeps it clinically...?

I'm not suggesting you contemplate that, assigning motivations to people so that you can see good in them is a precarious thing to do... And given this is just one of several things (whatever his sister does for him), I think I'd bring those up for discussion, (meaning the way you feel about them)and then do the 180 if he won't discuss it.

You still don't have an honest answer as to why, despite your willingness, he pushes you away and lets others in. IMHO - this is the kind of behavior that builds a barrier and thwarts intimacy. Post A it would leave me feeling very insecure.


"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." Joseph Campbell...So, If fear was not a factor - what would you do?

Posts: 4113 | Registered: May 2009 | From: New England
refuz2bavictim
♀ Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Firstly,
I am bothered by the fact that he would ask an employee to give an injection male or female.

I read the first sentence and knew this was an issue, before it went to lawyer brother's advice.

To dismiss your feelings about this when the simple solution was for you to learn to do it, or use a service, is bothersome of course. I just can't move past the fact that he didn't see the complication of putting an employee in that position in the first place.

I'm not implying that your feelings should not be the first consideration, as your feelings should have been a priority, but this would not have even been an issue if he'd really thought about what he was asking of this employee....Even if she WAS a nurse in her past employment. She must have had some concern of her own, as she brought it up to her brother.

Does he not think things through generally?


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly? I can see BOTH sides.

It was a punch in the gut. I was even surprised that I could still feel that way.

Ouch! Your expectations of "what a marriage SHOULD be" are dashed again.

I have had ZERO training.) Last night he said something about his arm hurting all day.

Ouch! A nurse's touch versus an untrained, angry spouse.

Whatright, can *you* imagine *his* perspective at all?

You can fight to be right, or you can fight to be happy.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a few thoughts on this, which may not be cohesive because I was up all night--but here goes, anyway.

I think that asking an employee--regardless of her background--to administer testosterone injections is wrong on many levels. On the most basic, yes--it is asking her to put her professional license on the line and, if she's no longer practicing nursing, and not carrying malpractice insurance, it can cause problems for her. (No, I don't think your husband would sue her---but people DO sue, and anyone with a professional license is acutely aware of this.)

A layperson administering medication at someone's request can rarely be held accountable if something goes amiss. A medical professional can be held liable--often disastrously so, and often unfairly so.

But really, the odds of any adverse reaction to testosterone or its injection are slim.

Things that raise my antennae are:

1. The woman is a subordinate, so there is a power imbalance; that she consulted her lawyer brother about this indicates, to me, a level of discomfort, a desire to find a way to STOP this non-job-related duty.

When you're practicing as a nurse--and by this,I mean in a healthcare setting---boundaries are firm. Yes, you deal with intimate things, touch bodies, etc. But there are very clear boundaries.

When you're administering testosterone to your boss in a non-healthcare setting, those professional boundaries are blurred. She's not primarily a nurse; her role is something else. The waters become muddy, because in order to safely administer the drug, she MUST know the correct amount for the intended purpose. She MUST know what she's injecting, and why. She MUST have information that, really, a female work subordinate should not have.

She was smart to stop. Even if your husband was not thinking of you, it's quite possible SHE was. Or, she may have just felt weird about it.

I know I did, when I gave a (female) colleague injections for MS when I was working in a non-healthcare setting. I have NO problem with the necessary intimacy required when providing patient care; asking intimate questions and touching bodies is very different in that role/setting, when boundaries are firmly in place (as they are, for most of us, all of the time0.

It's just kind of hard to sit across the conference room table with someone who---in order to assess the effects of the drug I've administered---I've just had to ask whether the urinary incontinence has been impacted by the dose change. (Because no nurse just gives an injection. We MUST know the drug. We MUST know for what it was prescribed. We MUST know the appropriate dose, and we MUST know the appropriate route of administration. And it doesn't end with injection. We also MUST evaluate the treatment. Because we DO put ourselves on the line when we agree to introduce any substance into another person's body.)

The intimacy required for administering nursing care---even something as seemingly small as giving a shot--impacts relationships. When there is intimacy in one aspect of the relationship (and again, even giving a shot requires sharing private information, and physical contact), those lines can get pretty blurry.

2. Rational or not, we ascribe a great deal of power to testosterone. It symbolizes virility, masculinity, sex. It is emotionally charged. Your husband unwisely chose to give a woman who was not his wife--and apparently is not even working as a nurse currently--a window into his life, make her part, albeit small, of his masculinity, sexuality, well-being. It was inappropriate.

3. This woman has talked about your husband's personal information with at least one person (her lawyer brother--unless that is just a story she used to get out of doing something that made her uncomfortable). Not good.

4. Administering injections is not rocket surgery. My kids could do it when they were in elementary school. (Their father uses insulin.)

Your husband is an adult. Is there a reason he is unable to administer the testosterone himself? There are many sites that can be easily reached; the thigh is especially good---it's often overlooked, but a great site because of ease of access, large surface area, and relative paucity of nerve endings.

If he is squeamish about it (and some people really are), you can give them. There are tutorials on YouTube and elsewhere online. If you would like more training, I guarantee his doctor would be delighted to have a nurse or patient educator teach you. You can do it


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8682 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
brokendancer7
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Member # 39911
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have gotten a lot of good feedback, so I'll add mine. First, isn't there transdermal T that can raise a man's levels? I am at the age where I use hormone replacement therapy, and apply a compounded cream (prescribed by my doctor) which includes a small amount of T, along with the estrogen.

Second, I can't imagine my FWH wanting any other women to know that he is deficient in T. Image is everything! Giving shots would have been my job from the beginning, like ear trimming and back shaving, so that he could appear perfect to other women.

I don't blame you for being upset. Seems like a lot of lines were being crossed in a lot of ways.

(Edited for typo)

[This message edited by brokendancer7 at 9:40 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


Me: BS - 58
Him: WS - 56
Married 34 yrs

Latest DD - April 2013, PA


Posts: 190 | Registered: Jul 2013
Holly-Isis
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Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's my understanding that usually when someone must get injections like this, the health care provider will give family members training in how to do this. If the method of giving the injection requires a professional, then usually it would be handled by the HCP, not outsourced since most people don't have a professional to rely on getting their shots from.

IMO he should never have asked the employee to do this. It's not professional and is a clear breach of boundaries. He should,have been sensitive to this issue for you and even his employee.

ETA- ditto solus sto's post

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 9:45 AM, November 8th (Friday)]


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11186 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
gonnabe2016
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Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think that you're being overly sensitive at all.

My view from ALL that you have posted is that your WH is used to being taken care of.

From this post specifically......no where did you mention that he was squeamish about doing it. His reasoning is because *she* is a nurse. BFD (no offense intended to nurses - I'm referring to his attitude, NOT the importance of the nursing profession ).
It is a shot. Pinch -- poke. If the side effects are so bad that he needs to be monitored, then he should be going to a clinic for his injections. Otherwise, he should be taking charge of his own health and giving himself the shots, IMO. If you offer to do it, well good on you.....however, it should be *his* responsibility to handle this himself.

If he doesn't work in a health-care setting -- there is no way in hell that any of his employees should be administering anything to him. Period.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8003 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
tushnurse
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Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

solus you took a lot of the words right out of my mouth.

I have to agree that it was inappropriate of your spouse to ask someone other than his family, or someone in the office to administer this.

Giving injections is one of the simplest things we learn as nurses, so the actual act of giving an injection is not a big deal.

Your H has crappy boundaries, and does not do a good job of empathizing with others, this has been a problem for you guys since dday if I recall correctly.

T-injections are pretty common place, and most patients either choose to admninister it themselves, or to have a family member do it. It's not a big deal. For the most needle phobic folks they choose to come to the office to have someone there give it.

I would have told him "I will be more than happy to give you the shots from now on, but I am going to need a much bigger, and duller needle than this." But my H calls me Nurse Rachett too.

His insensitivity is maddening, but I am not sure how to switch it around for him.

Brokendancer - The T creams are extremely messy, expensive, and less effective. Many men will try them, and then opt for the injections. It's less upkeep, less expensive, and not a big deal if you aren't needlephobic.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8489 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ouch! A nurse's touch versus an untrained, angry spouse.

WhatsRight has acknowledged she needs training. But perhaps rather than making it incumbent upon her to consider his perspective (because, c'mon, it's a SHOT, not a kitchen-table appendectomy), it should be incumbent upon the man who needs once-every-ten-days injections find time, during those other nine days, to help her learn.

Why? Because she's expressed discomfort that he's asked another woman to do so.

Even if there were no other reasons for this to be potentially problematic, THAT IS ENOUGH.

I'm sorry---I'm all for supporting WSs in their healing. But the pendulum needs to swing both ways, and WhatsRight's husband's choice in this situation was inappropriate. Why should she try to make it right in her mind? It's not as though there was only one option here. Her husband could have taken her to the doctor to learn how to give shots. Not hard to do. He could have popped into the doctor's office every ten days to have a nurse there administer the shots. Not hard to do. He could have learned how to administer the shots himself. Not hard to do. None of these would have caused WhatsRight discomfort, I would wager.

He chose the route that DID cause her discomfort.

Why should she try to make this okay in her mind?


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8682 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
allusions
♀ Member
Member # 25376
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, November 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He should be giving himself the injections. If he isn't able to he should allow you to or switch to a patch or topical route.

Having an employee give it is inappropriate. She knows WAY too much information about his personal life. Why should she know he has low testosterone levels?

Turn it around. What would he think and how would he feel if you had a male co-worker giving you estrogen shots?


Posts: 298 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: California Central Coast
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