I hope you don't mean talk to each other. They have not had any contact since the affair, other than one accidental run-in at the grocery store when he was with his wife. If you mean talk to their spouses (my wife talks to me, he talks to his BS), I'm sure he is doing that right now and spinning his own tale. He is a serial liar. I fully expect him to throw my WW under the bus and hope he does.
[This message edited by HeartbrokenDude at 7:11 AM, November 15th (Friday)]
Thanks, Jrazz. It's funny, I never thought of myself that way before. But my wife is astounded at how I've guided us through this, both in talks together and in marriage counseling. I've surprised myself, frankly.
She is a good person (I would have said a great person before all of this) and at age 40 has never strayed, and I have to believe she won't again after this trauma. But it's impossible for me to know that or prevent another affair; ultimately that will be her choice. There is only so much I can do. She needs to heal herself. The good news is that this has become the focus of her individual counseling. We have identified the problem, which is the first step.
I debated on putting that paragraph in, but I did it to show her that I am here for her no matter what. The only way I would leave her is if she breaks NC or obviously has another affair; I would leave her in a second if that happens, and she knows that.
But my wife is astounded at how I've guided us through this, both in talks together and in marriage counseling. I've surprised myself, frankly.
Right here is the secret silver lining to all of this heartache. If we can use the chaos to learn more about ourselves, we actually get to take something away from the process. If our FWS's do the same, the relationship has a chance of being more solid than ever.
Either way, learning and growing from this is the best we can do. You're so early in the process, if you feel yourself slip don't be discouraged. It's a crazy rollercoaster for a while but you have the right outlook.
You've done an outstanding job in a short period of time, and like a good parent, correct balance of hard discipline with soft love, with consistency. kudos to you. Your wife is lucky to have you.
Recovery is building a pyramid of inference from which to climb and see clearer, and heavy usage of the reflexive loop.
You put it all on the line, your desire to understand your wife and her flaws, your desire to keep your marriage, heal yourself and make the corrections to your marriage.
I also had basically checked out of my marriage, but didn't cheat. She did, not me. Wouldn't have ever dreamed of cheating. That is the difference my friend. The flaws in our spouses. My wife just came out of her funk a couple weeks ago. The talks we have had since are so different now. The remorse is there, as I believe you will start to see more and more of it yourself. I wish you the best of luck!
When I told you about his hateful comments to me you said “it didn’t change anything.” I was forced to endure you saying how “special” it was
Oh hell no. That would have sent me over the edge. I really hope that sentiment is long gone or somehow not an issue any more because if she still has the slightest, even the slightest feelings like that remaining inside her it is time to host a real come to Jesus party.
That just plain shows a complete lack of respect for you and the pain she made you suffer and deserves an explanation big time. That would easily be a deal breaker for me.
I really wish you luck in your recovery but do not roll over and accept the blame for someone who was so callous as to do and say the things she did. It appears to me that no matter what your marriage was lacking or not lacking she was going to eventually do this anyway.
You did nothing wrong, period. Make her understand that and never accept the OM being any kind of special, ever.
[This message edited by TwoHearts at 3:24 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]
But she had no answers for these questions, no answers to the horrors she committed
My DDays are much more recent, but my WW seems remorseful and committed to R, just as yours does. Even so, I'm not optimistic that she's going to be able to give good answers to questions about why her infidelities happened any time soon. There are some indications that she will eventually be able to do so--some glimmers of awareness. WW seems reasonably forthright (though not completely, I think) about the what questions--what happened and when. But there's a lot of minimizing and blameshifting going on whenever I ask the why questions.
A lot of times I doubt that it's worth even asking those questions. On the other hand, I worry that progress in our R requires coming to grips with these questions and so also requires that we continue to ask the why questions even when I can predict that the response is going to be so foggy, foggy, foggy and that they're going to make me more than a little aggravated at times.
I guess one question I have is whether you're asking because you need answers for yourself, for your own healing, or if you need to ask so that your WW can confront herself and start to heal. Either way (and it could be both, of course), you'll have to be patient.
Or that's what I'm telling myself, anyway.
Stay strong, and stay positive, brother.
[This message edited by lloyddobler at 5:51 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]
Frankly I love the fact that he is throwing my my wife under the bus; if there was lingering feelings for him, they are now utterly gone. Rats are leaving the sinking ship, my friends.
She tried to call my wife at work yesterday and my wife didn’t answer, then blocked her number from our phones. Probably the best thing, but I also wonder if my wife is just trying to cover up everything and move on.
Wife wrote me a great text today: “I know u do (love me) because u wouldn’t put up with the shit I’ve thrown on ur plate otherwise. I am so thankful for ur supportive and unconditional love! I hope u know that. I adore u and ur strength :)”
To which I wrote: “I am a strong son of a bitch, aren’t I? This affair made me cry like a baby, but it did not break me.”
We spoke again after marriage counseling, and I now have got the final piece I wanted, the only thing I want for Christmas; she is calling him a piece of dogshit and worthless scum, admits that everything—everything—was a lie, and that there are no good memories left. That is gone. This came after we had a laugh about his lies to his wife. Told **** if she sees him again she should spit in his face, because he is a selfish monster and destroyer. She agrees. She agrees!! The fucking 180 degree enlightenment has occurred, all that bullshit I endured for 3 months is gone. I know believe wholeheartedly he is dirt, and history.
We had a great counseling session, but I learned one minor detail that galled me: He apparently said in the supermarket to her “do you miss me?” NOT “how are you doing?” as my wife had previously said. It seems so minor, but a) it was not the whole truth, and b) The former is much less innocent and is still actively fishing; I hope he rots in hell and his wife kicks him out first. His wife was in the next aisle over and he was still fishing with my wife, the bastard. Die in a fire.
[This message edited by HeartbrokenDude at 7:42 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]
Thank you, thank you. I have learned about myself and my wife, and believe she has too.
I agree, she is lucky to have me. She made the most colossal mistake of her life and we are moving on. She has had her second chance and there will never be another.
Sounds like we're in the same boat, my friend. When was your d-day?
Our marriage was not great, but it was servicable, and I thought we had mutual respect for each other, if not bright passion. I got burned, badly. If I have learned nothing else from this experience, it is that you cannot ever really see into someone else's heart, and truth is the most important quality in a person.
I agree completely; I could not have gone on in our marriage with her holding some sunshine and roses view of the affair in her head. Per my latest post however that is now gone, I have aired out the stink and shined the light on the vampire--and staked it.
Her answers will be foggy at this time and know that you will have to re-ask questions because you might not get the entire truth, or you will get truth through affair-fogged glasses. I needed to know questions like: "How could you lie to me probably 50-60 times over a year? Did you ever think of the children and the damage you were potentially wreaking on them? Was it worth sleeping with a married man 20 years older than you and throwing away everything you had for that piece of shit? Did you know what you had to lose?" and so on. The questions were more for my benefit, but I also wanted to get inside her head and get her thinking rationally again. She was utterly irrational for a year of her life, like someone addicted to drugs. She now sees that she was.
The only thing I don't know at this point is the details of what went on in the bedroom, and I'm not sure how will that will help me so I am not planning to go there. I think I know about everything else I care to know, but I'm sure I will be hurt by additional minor revelations down the line. It's still early for me.
[This message edited by HeartbrokenDude at 9:00 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]
Did you actually give him BW the proof you said you had? She is clearly trying to figure out what has happened to her life. She deserves the truth. And,if your WW is truly remorseful, then talking on the phone and answering the BW's questions would be helpful..not only for the BW..but for your WW. She needs to fully understand that she also devastated another woman..his wife...and another family.
[This message edited by confused615 at 9:08 AM, November 16th (Saturday)]
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.