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User Topic: Sex, power, and connection.
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re manipulation... I see plenty of men being manipulative. What about those men who routinely target vulnerable women, lie to them, and then move on when bored? Or the many NPD types we hear about on here? What else is "hoovering" than manipulation? (And men seem to hoover more than women, if this site is anything to judge by... or maybe more women post here, so that's why I have that impression.) For some reason certain behaviors get labeled manipulation when a woman does it and something else when a man does. (He's "playing" her.)

In my case, escapism seemed to be the main motivation behind my WH's A. With a bit of validation and admiration thrown in. I have no idea what the OW got out of it, but as far as I can tell, power wasn't a big component.


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1035 | Registered: Aug 2012
tryinginmi
♀ Member
Member # 29358
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the OW is also as you described. She is usually not after the same type validation. She wants what someone else has in order to feel powerful where she usually has very low-self esteem and is trying to build that up with power in taking a MM. When the BW finds out she no longer has the power she thought she had in her relationship, thus the fall of her self-esteem.

This hits close to home in my own situation. My husband was a man of influence and esteem. He is the quiet but funny guy that is friends with everyone. People flock to him naturally. He was of a higher (than the cOW) social, economic, and physical appeal in the situation he was in at work during the A.

The cOW has very low self-esteem, and went from man to man trying to find sense of worth (power). I truly believe that she thought that if she could take a man like him from someone like ME, than she must have some value. As much as I abhor her, I also feel very very sorry for her.


Me - BW 38
Him - FWH 38
Her - MOW 46 Fat Assed Toothless Man Faced Whore!!!

DD#1 July 28, 2010 Admitted to EA. A went underground.
DD#2 August 19,2010 Admitted PA


Posts: 954 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Michigan
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My fWW's OMM was the boss of several of her friends. It would be power in her case, and I think, toss in some poor self-esteem.

Sex is simply a release.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi painpaingoaway....good to hear from you. I am sorry my post rubbed you a bit wrong. I did not intend to do this, but see it was a result.


My opening post is a big generalization.


I think I started here because of my own immaturity surrounding sex and intimacy. For most of my life I thought men and women were different.....but not THAT different....when it came to sex. I see how terribly wrong I was, how much I didn't know, and lacked the ability to see my own shortcomings.

Seeing the varied responses to me drives home the point that motivations behind sex are NOT sex-specific....men and women can and do are both capable of using the same motivations to get what they desire.

I appreciate all the posts to me on this topic. Ones like yours help keep me away from black and white thinking.

I am sorry to aggravate you...but is still good to hear from you again.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:18 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012 by 1 email to OM...OM did NOT respond.
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred...may never incur.

Posts: 2699 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seeing the varied responses to me drives home the point that motivations behind sex are NOT sex-specific....men and women can and do are both capable of using the same motivations to get what they desire.

Very true. And there are even other reasons beyond having sex to feel either loved or powerful... Many folks of BOTH genders simply have sex to feel GOOD.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3762 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my sitch OW was my WH's senior at work (so no corporate ladder climbing happening here), she was basically teaching him his job at the time that the A began. International petro-chemical company, so yes, a man's world.

From what I can make out, at the time of the A, for WH things at home were stressful. He was looking for a release, something that would free him of the responsibilities of home, escapism basically. He says he was "infatuated" with her, but never thought of it as a lasting relationship.

OW was divorced, she had a 6 year old son who she had handed over to her mother to raise (he's still with her mother 9 years later). She was fairly new to town, had no friends outside of work, lonely. OW it seems is very much a people pleaser and is always complimenting other people, agreeing with everything they say, sucking up to people and generally relies on other people viewing her in a positive light in order to feel validated.

Her and WH worked very closely, one-on-one (in more ways than one ) and it led to flirtation, an EA and finally a PA.

Now the sex side of things I find quite fascinating. WH says the sex was very ordinary, vanilla sex with some BJs, no huge emotional connection. He never managed to make her orgasm, he said she seemed to make no effort to orgasm, and seemed more intent on pleasing him.

From what I can make out, WH was using her as an escape from the stresses of family life and for sex. For him I gather the sex was purely stress relief, fun, simple sexual release, almost like instead of masturbating he went to her to get the job done. I have no doubt he got a kick out of the illicit nature of what was happening. And he enjoyed being at her house because there were no kids to worry about, no chores etc. He says the "infatuation" faded pretty quickly and then he kept going back because it was "a guaranteed fuck".

But what was in it for her? I think she was using sex to get him to come to her house and keep her company and make her feel wanted and loved. So in some ways I suppose the sex made her feel powerful, but mainly I think she used sex as a tool to get him there and keep him coming back for more.


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 18yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 775 | Registered: Oct 2012
ItsaClimb
♀ Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny, for the first time ever, since D-Day I have viewed sex as a, for want of a better word, "weapon" for power. There have been times since D-Day when the sex act has given me a sense of power over WH.

Also, on the subject of revenge affairs... the thought has crossed my mind a number of times. And, god forbid, were I to engage in a RA it would be another example of using sex for power. What prompts me to think of a RA (and I am NOT planning on acting on those thoughts!) is that I feel needy - I want ego-strokes, I want my self-esteem built up. RA would do that for me (albeit only temporarily) and it would give me a much-needed sense of power. I am fully aware that all this would only be smoke and mirrors though!


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 18yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 775 | Registered: Oct 2012
hopefullromantic
♀ Member
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have often thought that the OWs sense of "power" was a big part of my H's A. That opinion is derived from my own feelings of power in interactions with men throughout my life. I can't say for sure that any actual sex act is necessary (except maybe to maintain power as a relationship progresses) because I have never had sex with any man other than my H, but I do know that I have felt a sense of power when I know a man is attracted to me. It is a very powerful feeling when a man does things for you because he is attracted to you.

This became abundantly clear to me when I once found myself on the slippery slope to an A. It never became a full fledged A (because we both had a conscience), but the attraction was there, it was mutual, and in my analytic way of dealing with it I became very aware of the feeling of power, much more than lust or affection, or any other feeling. My dealings with this man became almost a game to see what I could get him to do. I then became aware that this was manipulation on my part and that's a side of myself I try to contain. Fortunately for me, guilt and shame won the day.

Consequently, I was certain that OWs goal was power more than anything, particularly since she was the initiator (predator) of the A. My H was just plain weak and stupid, a victim of his need for validation. Because he had been happily married before the A, and because he does have somewhat a sense of morality, I believe he at least pretended to be reluctant in the progression of the A, but he pretty much caved whenever she pushed it further, and probably felt quite the victory every time she was successful. I'm sure that fueled the intensity of the A.

So power has been a huge element for me in the earlier aspects of a relationship, but not in a real love relationship. Love means total surrender on my part. But I am not a competitive, power driven woman.

As to the man feeling connection, I am quite certain that while my H was probably attracted to OW early on, I don't believe he felt "in love" until after they began a sexual relationship, which was several months into the A. He claims he doesn't know when he felt "love", but that's when he became totally disengaged from me, so obviously he was instead "connected" to her. And I should add that when that occurred and I could no longer arouse my own H, I didn't feel a loss of power....I felt a loss of love.


It's not really a fairy tale 'till the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain

Posts: 1715 | Registered: Oct 2007
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blakesteele,

He is pleased when he can make a woman orgasm but the connection occurs when he orgasms by the actions of a woman.

Do you mean movement of her hips and lips (i.e., more porn less ‘dead fish’) … or some other female “action”?


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
whiteflower99
♀ Member
Member # 13937
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you can make a married man cheat on his wife, you are powerful. It validates you as a sexually desirable being. If you can make a HAPPILY married man cheat on his wife, sneak around on his wife, lie to his wife, talk badly about his wife, maybe even think about leaving his wife - throw away his entire life - then WOW, you must be very, very amazing. I told my H that her choice to pursue him had more to do with me than it did with him. She wanted him because she thought he was rich, but also because he had a wife who loved him, respected him, gave him everything he could want or need. She has a pattern of going after married men. If he had been miserable with me, where would have been the conquest? If he had been a philanderer by nature, where would have been her feelings of validation? She tried to make herself feel better about herself by seeking validation from a happily married man. It made her feel powerful as a woman
.

Pretty much sums up the latest OW here.

Also, I can attest to feeling "unempowered" (maybe I'm not as crazy as I thought) when we would have sex and he wouldn't finish. He SAID it was because he got more out of my pleasure but still, I wonder if SHE always brought him to orgasm.
And now I have one MORE thing to hate about myself.


What are you pretending not to know?

me FBS
him idiotic sex addicted, hormone addled, porn watching, post pubescent male with a walking hard on for anything without a penis
4 kids 15 13 12 8
Earned my *F* the hard way; no longer defining mysel


Posts: 1675 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Greensboro, NC
tryingagain74
♀ Member
Member # 33698
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think this describes my XWH and the AP.

I imagine she quite enjoyed "stealing" my then-husband from me. Here she was, a plain woman who was very reliant on her husband for everything because she was a college drop-out and a SAHM (and I was a SAHM for years and loved it, so please know I'm not at all putting that down... it's just that it does make you more reliant on your spouse financially). I imagine that she felt very little power in that situation.

So, she finds my XWH on Ashley Madison, where he is looking for ego kibbles and attention since I'm busy taking care of the kids, working, running errands/doing chores, and I'm just not giving him enough. She scratches that itch for him, and he makes her feel powerful because not only is she putting one over on her husband, who likely has all the power in their relationship, but she's getting the attention of a man who is married to a woman she likely perceives as more "powerful"-- I have a graduate degree, a job, a solid circle of friends and family, and I'm not horrid looking. I'm sure she loved that sense of superiority she felt she had over me.

Funny thing is... as much as everything hurt, and as much as I hated hurting our children with the divorce... she really did me a favor. I had no idea how much he had been sucking the life out of me for years. When I think back over my marriage, especially once we had kids, I was pretty miserable with him. I just didn't want to admit it to myself.

So, in the end, she got the dud XWH, and I got my power back!


BS (Me) 39
Happily liberated!
Two DS and One DD
It matters not how strait the gate,/How charged with punishments the scroll./I am the master of my fate:/I am the captain of my soul.--"Invictus," William Ernest Henley

Posts: 3398 | Registered: Oct 2011
dayatatime
♀ Member
Member # 17090
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah the power play blew my mind. I never imagined women get off on destroying marriages and families, but our OW sure did.

I don't know if she would have wanted WH if she had been able to have him. She wanted power and destruction and not love. She is an angry bitch. The bigger the challenge, the more the man loves his wife, the greater the high is for her.

WH has no surviving family left. My son and I are the only people on this earth who could help him if he needed it. And so he throws away his only source of support on someone who is not capable of love. She just wants the power of getting a guy to bust up his family for her. Once she lands ger conquest she is ready to move on to the next challenge.

[This message edited by dayatatime at 9:32 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


BS 52
WH 55
son 13
ddays 9/27/07 and 9/1/10

Posts: 763 | Registered: Nov 2007
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ladiesfirst.....what is suggested in readings is the actual act of orgasm via intercourse with a woman creates a real connection from a man to a woman. It has been reported that this orgasmic connection is different then if a woman uses her hand and or her mouth to bring a man to an orgasm. It is also reported the connection the man experiences by intercourse orgasm is stronger then what a woman experiences by intercourse orgasms. The connection women experience takes place before the actual sex act even occurs...though sex helps reinforce all connection.

So it is intercourse that provides the strongest connection for a man...


I am not supporting or contradicting this idea....simply reporting what I have read.


Again....the varied responses to this post pretty much trump any one trend from being dominant.


What I know is that I personally lack strong knowledge on what real, true, deep intimacy is or how to get there. In my own sex life I put a lot of stock into the techniques to bring my wife to orgasms....and she regularly has them. Much of my orgasms happened in ways other then intercourse....they all felt good.

BUT there is more to marital sex then the big O. It is these other parts that I am just now learning....15 years into marriage.

Yep....not proud of this teenage approach to sex that I carried into my 40s....but it is the truth.

I really thought that refraining from my orgasm for 30-45 minutes and making sure my wife was satisfied before I was....was the manly thing to do. Thank you porn. I will say the one piece of advice I received from my Dad about sex before he disappeared from my life (I was 12 at the time, parents divorced that same year) was to train myself to hold back my orgasm so that the woman orgasms first. Since it was my only real sex talk or advice from my Dad....I took it as kind of the full purpose of a man and sex. Not making excuses...just saying it ties in nicely with what viewing porn reinforced. And I use the term nicely in a very sarcastic way....

I think this latest post of mine is making this thread creep away from the original intent....but this is where my thought has gone from the inputs to this post.

The good thing about this part of my journey is that both my wife and I are committed to doing things differently into the future.

It is painful to change, but feels so much better....more whole, more complete, more healthy.

I was pretty shallow with regards to sex inside my M.....perhaps this is where I should concentrate my energies and leave this whole sex-with-regards-to-affairs alone?

Yeah...I am embarrassed by my actions pre-A inside my M....but felt like compelled to report to this thread.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:47 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


ME: 42 BH
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012 by 1 email to OM...OM did NOT respond.
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not yet incurred...may never incur.

Posts: 2699 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's good that you ask questions about it. Questions mean learning, after all. And it would be way too easy to put too much stock into "studies" that give gendered response. Trying to rely too much on those studies can result in discounting some very important experiences that don't follow the trends. That's why "The Sex-Starved Wife" wound up being such a relief to see. There's a long-lasting stereotype that men are more sexual than women or want it more, etc. There are many people of BOTH genders for whom that isn't true. It isn't all one way or another, it's individual.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3762 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
MakingLemonade
♀ Member
Member # 41143
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blakesteele,

Going away from how you started this thread, but your comment on your last post, resurrected something I have wrestled with-

I really thought that refraining from my orgasm for 30-45 minutes and making sure my wife was satisfied before I was....was the manly thing to do.

Now that I know that my whole sexual experience has been with a SA, I have wrestled in my mind, how is it intended to be with a healthy married couple? (Others are welcome to answer.) And it may be too much TMI to answer, but it is truly a part of what I have wrestled with and grieved over because I doubt I've experienced it as it was intended to be.


Me: 40's; XBS Him: 40's; XWS/NPD/SA
D-day 1: 5/2007- A #1; 7/2007 A #1 continued-R
D-day 2: 3/2013 A #2/multi-ONSs; 4/2013 A #2 continues to present
D: 7/2013 (25 yrs together; days shy of 22nd anniversary-GOAL MET!)
Our kids: teen & tween

Posts: 168 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Southern US
Lostinthismess
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Member # 39210
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A man usually enters into an A because he wants attention and validation that someone else wants him besides his wife and that he is entitled to be loved by more than one person.

Ouch but apparently true in our case too :(

As for a woman using sex to feel powerful- another hard truth. I told my husband this in one of many verbal vomits. I think it stems from csa, I used sex in every relationship as a means of power. It made me feel good to have that 'power' over a man to 'make him want me'. It was the only way I felt I had control. Something I thought I lacked in my marriage. Power I never felt I had. And here I am, the bs.


Dday- 4/4/13
fwh- harrypotter
'You just keep living, until you are alive again'
'I don't want perfect, I want honest'

Posts: 298 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Ca
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They say stereotypes exist for a reason, but I don't think that reason is because generalizations are valid, I think it's because people desperately want an easy explanation for complicated shit.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7107 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Marathonwaseasy
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Member # 40674
Default  Posted: 2:56 AM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Definitely ow was on a power trip with my husband. I think now she wanted my life and really thought she could get him and my home and me bank roll them. Fwh was looking for validation too

But until dday sex for me was about love with my husband. Not power. There is now an element of power but aimed more at ow (not that she knows but still) - basically I'm saying "he's mine, bitch"

I'm the successful career woman in a man's world but I genuinely believe I would never have a RA. I always had good boundaries when the occasional frisson occurred with a man as it will. They are even stronger now. Even flirtation disgusts me.


Me BS, 41
Him WS, 45
EA and PA (PA for 11 months)
DDay 13/9/13
3 children - 15,12,3
WS has bipolar, no excuse...

"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."


Posts: 421 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ireland
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:08 AM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They say stereotypes exist for a reason, but I don't think that reason is because generalizations are valid, I think it's because people desperately want an easy explanation for complicated shit.

So very true!


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3762 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Topic Posts: 57
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