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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: to 180 or not?
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I often find that when I read new members posting on SI that 180 is often recommended in the beginning. Sometimes when I read the circumstances of when it is being recommended I am not sure if I fully agree. Dont get me wrong, I also read stories where I think the 180 is exactly what they should be doing.

I thought it might be interesting to take a survey of those who are in R as to whether you used the 180 and how did it help.

For me I did not do any form of the 180. The PA part of my WW's LTA ended about 2 years after I found out and just some sort of an EA continued. I got immediate sorrow and wanting to continue the M. For the first few weeks I did get continued TT as far as the amount of contact that was still going on though and it did take 6 weeks for full NC. Things are doing good, we have a ways to go still but overall I think our ending will be a good one. In my situation I feel a 180 would have set things back for us.

What is your story as far as 180?


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 479 | Registered: Nov 2012
TheAmazingWondertwin
♀ Member
Member # 40769
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can relate. I never did 180 either. We are in the midst of TT and discovered broken NC from about two months ago. Not sure how to deal. If he continues to rugsweep and cover his ass, I may be there.
We wil see- an I am interested to here the responses of others.
We have been doing very well- despite the above mentioned issues- we wil be addressing those tonight.
I fear the 180 may set us back- but I also feel he may need a wake up call.


Everyday is a new day, some good, some bad.
Me- BS 39
Him- FWS
14 years- 2 middle school children
DDay- 07-24-2013
NC broken from August 6- 24, 2013
Avalanche of Truth on November 14, 2013
Length of A: June 10th to Dday- with broken NC

Posts: 474 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: East Coast
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was on another forum before I found SI. The guys there urged me to do the 180, and the tactics just didn't make sense to me. Then I figured it out.

There are 2 parts to the 180. The more prominent part (file, talk only about kids and finances, don't communicate, don't ask Qs, etc.) is only for BSes who want to R but whose WSes aren't remorseful. These tactics help the BS detach and learn that they can live just fine without his WS. If the WS comes back, OK, but the target of this part of the 180 is the BS in despair because his WS won't R.

The 2nd part of the 180 is a set of tactics that we all need to do to be autonomous, authentic human beings. For example, most of us have developed some level of co-dependency. It behooves us to minimize that, even if our WSes are super-remorseful and R is going well.

Anyway, that's my take in 2 'graphs. YMMV.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10063 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
ascian
♂ Member
Member # 40304
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sisoon, that's what I took from the 180 as well. Both I and my wife wanted reconciliation, but the specific examples given for the 180 wouldn't have helped in that. Withdrawing, emotionally, was something we'd both done and that had hurt the marriage before her affair had started.

But, like you said, the ideas behind the examples --learning how to live like a strong adult-- is excellent advice.


Me - BH 39
Her - FWW 36
D-Day: 8/13
Working on R

Posts: 299 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Midwest
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, November 14th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did a "180" from where we were but I did not do The 180. We were so disconnected before Dday that if I would have detatched I would have kept going and never looked back.

My "180" was to completely engage in everything. Very hands on. I opened up my accounts, I involved her in finances, I expressed everything I had been repressing for years, I shared my deepest darkest secrets, I vocalized all my wants needs and expectations.

People here probably would have screamed for me to do the real 180. 10 months of TT and lies, broken NC, procrastination every step of the way. I didn'tsee remorse for awhile but I did see guilt, shame, and humiliation. As she did work on herself that slowly turned to remorse. All along the way I saw little tiny improvements and changes.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2581 | Registered: Aug 2012
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sisoon - I agree with you that there are parts of the 180 that are just good things to do all of the time to be an autonomous, authentic human being.

It is the teeth of the 180 - the minimizing conversation and ignoring the WS that I think may actually be harmful when recommended to new BS when their situation is not fully understood. For me it seems like the method to use AFTER you have tried other things and better understand what you are dealing with. To me it doesn't read like something you would recommend to someone days after DDay.

So why is it a standard recommendation here without even knowing the situation? In the healing library it specifically says it is highly suggested that ANY new BS do the 180 as soon as possible. Is this bad advise?


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 479 | Registered: Nov 2012
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the minimizing conversation and ignoring the WS

I tend to make my own rules and encourage others to do so as well.

I believe I initiated the 180, but I never ignored my W. How could I we have 3 kids and she is a human living in my house.

I took the 180 and just made it about me. My W simply was not part of it. I used it as a time to take a look see at the world, imagine what it would be like to be divorced, living on my own and without attachments. I lived that life to a certain degree during the 180. I made a schedule that revolved around what I needed to do with my kids and my job and other than that I did what I wanted. No revenge A or anything like that, but I considered all my options for the future. That is how I view the one 180. She left me, so it seemed reasonable to consider all my options. I was free to make a choice then.

I guess I looked at my W after that A and said yeah she ain't that great. What else is there out there. She started to become great. I came back.

In my situation I feel a 180 would have set things back for us.

That is interesting and instructive to this conversation. I did not care if we were 'set back.' F-her at that point. I had no say in her decision and well she was not going to get any in mine. I needed a full break and was fully ready for her to walk. Was it a test for her? Probably. If she couldn't wait for me to figure out what I wanted after what she did, well she just didn't fully understand what she did.

I think all politics are local and all situations and relationships are too. It's one of the reasons when lending a hand here on SI I almost always write from my experience. It's all I know and the only thing I can truly translate.

take care...

[This message edited by wert at 10:05 AM, November 15th (Friday)]



Posts: 1427 | Registered: Jan 2012
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If things are going well now, then there is no need to question your decisions about the past.

Personally, I don't think there is a one size fits all approach to R. You knew your particular situation and acted the best you could. Leave it at that.

Sometimes, I notice a bit of a group think that occurs to get a WS in line. It usually goes something like this:
1) Get your bitch boots on! (meaning stay angry and bully your WS until they capitulate) If that doesn't work then
2) 180 their ass (which is often misinterpreted as withhold affection). If that doesn't work then
3) Go talk to a lawyer (to show you are serious about D)

Maybe that type of thinking works well for others, but it never would have worked in my case. I found that showing compassion and kindness was a better approach to R.

On D-day I discovered I was dealing with a 3 year EA/PA, 2 cyber affairs, and my FWW was pursuing the OM's best friend (and was thankfully failing because he would not cheat on his wife). To answer your question, I never did the 180 and I considered us fully R'd about 18 months after D-day.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 12:39 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.


Posts: 5644 | Registered: Aug 2007
Sparkle0504
♀ Member
Member # 40379
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A well timed thread for me (I've just posted about it myself).

The 180 isn't a "one size fits all" but I think in the right situation, it can be the best and only option.

For me, it wouldn't have much benefit. I think, from my own personal point of view, this is a second marriage (at age 42), after living alone with and supporting myself and my kids and being happy doing so. I don't need to learn to be and look after myself, etc because I already did that recently.

Where my SAWH is concerned, he's had a lifetime of driving people away with his behaviour - so where is the punishment? I'd rather be the one who hung around long enough to at least TRY and get HIM to that "authentic" stage. Then we will see whether there is still an "us".

Who knows? I'm just a learner really


Me 44 (BS)
Him 52 (SAWH)
DDay (too many to mention), but 1st 06/2011
Children - two, mine from my previous marriage
Final straw 6/6/14

The truth hurts, but nowhere near as much as the lies


Posts: 196 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: England
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the way we understand stuff we read, hear, and see is influenced by our situation at the time we read, hear, or see something.

My reading of SI is that the 180 is recommended where R is obstructed by an unremorseful WS. I don't see it as a general recommendation. Now you make me want to go through each post to see how often and in what sitches it's actually recommended.

I realize I didn't answer the question posed by RP in my previous post.

I most definitely kept communication with my W open. We talked about everything that came up, and I was not at all shy about sharing feelings and asking where she was going and what she was doing. I questioned her almost endlessly about her A, with little regard for her feelings, breaking only when I was done for a while or so she could eat or sleep (and then only at her request). We seriously increased the amount of time and energy we devoted to sex. I never considered talking to a lawyer. In these sense, I ignored the 180, thanks to SI advice that the 180 was for BSes with unremorseful WSes, and my W was remorseful.

I definitely wanted to R from the beginning, but I made myself stop thinking she was my partner and I was hers. I did my best to imagine myself alone and thriving. I did my best to consider choosing D as an outcome. I started working on our M on D-Day, but I didn't enter R until I saw 90 days of consistent commitment to R from my W. In these senses, then, I did use 180 tactics.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:58 AM, November 15th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10063 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
heme
♀ Member
Member # 40684
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what Ive seen most people recommend 180 when the WS is not being remorseful or is remaining in contact with the OP. I know when I first posted no one recommended that I do a 180 with my WH..

I think in every situation its best to do what works for you. There is no one size fits all solution for every situation. Personally I didn't do a 180 but I have distanced myself emotionally from my husband. I need the space to regain my balance.

[This message edited by heme at 12:07 PM, November 15th (Friday)]


BS: Me (30)
WS: Husband (31)
Married 8 years, together 9
D-Day: Sept 10, 2013
D-Day2: May 31, 2014
Children: 5, ages 7, 5, 3, 1 and due in September

Leaning towards leaving, no one deserves this pain.


Posts: 205 | Registered: Sep 2013
embee
♀ Member
Member # 41100
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, the way it is worded in the Healing Library is confusing - implying that EVERY BS needs to do the 180 as soon as possible. Nobody seems to be agreeing with that here in situations where there is instant remorse, honesty and attempts to make things right. If the WS quickly recommits to the marriage, I don't think it is absolutely necessary for the BS to try and differentiate in such a dramatic way.

However, I printed out the 180 steps and showed them to my therapist today for his input. He knows the situation, obviously, and has met my WH a few times and heard what he has to say about things. He agreed it was a good idea, if I could manage to do it. I told him that it felt dishonest to behave in a way that was contrary to how I felt, and he likened it to the way they tell people to act in Al Anon - take care of yourself first, because while you love the alcoholic, you don't love his actions. Given that my WH is currently acting like an OW-addict, I really connected with that idea.

I still love him, and he knows that. But he also knows he hurt me and is continuing to hurt me as long as he keeps trying to have his cake and eat it too. In time, if things don't change, he'll lose me. For me, as others have said, it's about focusing on detaching myself from the unhealthy codependency I've developed.

Really, I think the 180 is the perfect antidote for codependency. Which is really, really common in relationships, but it's not always the primary problem - which is why it's not always the only solution. However, I think there's a part of you that will know if it's right for you. The idea has appealed to me from the beginning, despite how scary it sounded.


Me: BS, 26
Him: WH, 28
D-Day: 10/23/13
Separated

"Are you hurting the one you love?
You said you got to heaven, but it wasn't enough."


Posts: 57 | Registered: Oct 2013
runningfrompain
♀ New Member
Member # 41147
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree. I feel like my WH is killing me with TT & "dabbling" with breaking NC. I need to do 180, I think, in the hopes that he will come to his senses. I can't take the back & forth & need to prepare myself for D.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Oct 2013
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, November 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reunite, don't you think TT would have ended and NC happened sooner if you had done the 180?


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nuance - good question. In my opinion no it would not have. The TT that I got wasn't more lies at all. It was just too painful to tell, it took 6 weeks for my WW to get to the point to finish the story and go full NC. In my case my WW cheated with OM1 for over 12 years and new him longer than she has known me. That long of a story takes a little while to unravel.

In my case I really believe the 180 would have actually set us back significantly and my TT and NC would have taken much longer. In cases where the WS wants R, you have to remember they are hurting too. The reasons they hurt, probably hurt us more but I think if you are wanting to work as a team to get through it you are likely to be more successful. Now if the WS in not doing there part, by all means 180, 180, 180.

The problem I guess I have is that is not the way the healing library reads and is not how the advice is sometimes presented. However I dont think my opinion is all that uncommon on SI regarding the 180. Even the 180 primer that gets bumped says the 180 is not to punish the WS, it is for you. That makes it sound like it should always be done because it is for the BS not the WS. For me, the time to use the 180 is to wake up, or punish the WS. Sure it will also help the BS get stronger.

It is like the hail mary pass - the M is gonna end if we can't get it back on track so get it all you got. I just feel like if it is not yet 4th down and some time is on the clock why are you throwing the hail mary pass.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 479 | Registered: Nov 2012
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RP- I agree. But since I never tried it this is just theory.

I think it would be to stop cake eating or rug sweeping. Either we are on the same team or we are not and this is what its going to look like if we are not.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2581 | Registered: Aug 2012
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, November 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, it's the Internet. This is just a place a bunch of random hurt people congregate for support. There is no overarching theory or guideline for recovery. The healing library has other styles of affair recovery also, such as links to marriage builders. You aren't going to get a group of 40,000 people to all give the right advice in the right situation at the right time.

As to the general question, I think the 180 would have been good for me to do in the early days. Maybe I wouldn't still be married, but I might have had a faster personal recovery. Which I think is the point.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 12:31 AM, November 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the 180 is a catalyst to R or D. But it may push some to D even though with time and patience R would be possible.

I guess I'm not the patient type.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1205 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
Topic Posts: 18

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