Other questions include:
1) Do you believe him? If this is the truth, it's pretty odd, but that doesn't make in untrue. You ask SI if we believe him, and we say either a) no, or b) it's very difficult to believe him - but we know less than you do.
It's your life, and you have to take your own risks. At some point everyone in chooses to believe his WS, even though we know we've been lied to terribly by the person we now choose to believe. That doesn't make sense - but we do it, and I think it works out decently more often than not.
2) Why not do a polygraph? It sounds like your big question is whether he's told the truth, and that's a yes/no question eminently suitable for a poly. It could do the trick for you.
The bottom line is it actually makes very little difference, he did it, he is a cheater like any other.
For me, the bottom line is: My husband says the cheating sex was bad. Either he is lying to me, or he is telling the truth. Whether I'm getting lies or the truth makes a huge difference. I can not R with a man who is lying to me.
Honey,I see you desperately trying to believe him. You have talked yourself into it. I get it. Most of us here do.
You do what you feel you need to do. If you feel you need to believe him,that's ok.
This was written to Olwen, not me, and I'm sure it was written out of caring. It sounded patronizing to me, though, and I wanted to respond in case someone else reading this thread has a WS like mine.
I actually did not want to believe that my H masturbated to get hard and continued to masturbate during sex so that he could stay hard. I did not want to believe that he disassociated from the situation so that he could have mechanical sex with a pitiful woman who he did not find attractive in any way. What kind of messed-up do you have to be to do that? A kind that I knew nothing about and didn't want to touch with a ten foot pole. A kind that can result from child abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect. A self-destructive compulsion combined with a confirmation
of worthlessness that scrambles rational thought and is quite frankly disturbing.
Messed-up people do messed up shit.
As far as him wanting it or not, I donít know how he would have had sex if he didnít want it. If a male truly does not want to have sex with a person, and is thinking that when the act is happening, then certain body parts donít work Ė which makes sex impossible. He wanted it, on some level, or it wouldnít have happened, period.
Iím really perplexed why it matters so much.
Iím really perplexed why it matters so much.
It matters so much because the truth matters. My H "wanted it on some level" but it was not a sexual level. OW was not arousing to him. I'm not going to go into the whole background, but women have sex when they don't feel desire, what makes people think men are so different?
then certain body parts donít work Ė which makes sex impossible.
Actually, people can emotionally feel horrible and still have the signs of physical arousal. Something that is terribly confusing for the survivors of sexual abuse is that they did not want what was happening, did not feel desire, and yet their body responded by getting physically aroused. Please try to imagine what kind of mind-fuck that would be before you say that it is "impossible" for men to be hard unless they "want" to have sex.
I think it would help if you determined what you need him to do in order to restore some of your faith in him. If he can do that, go for a full reconciliation. I don't mean to sound crass, but if it fails, divorce is still possible then.
Yes, it means making yourself vulnerable. But I do get the feeling that you would like to reconcile. The gamble might be worth it.
Of course he should be told that if he's not come clean, it means the end of the marriage.
People here say all the time that so many waywards are "broken." Well, here is a man admitting to being broken and even taking it a step further and explaining how he is broken. That seems like a good start to me.
Watch him now and let him take the reins. If he is being honest, you will be able to tell that, probably right quick.
Good luck to you both. See if he follows up on that IC.
Feel a bit embarrassed I said I was going to leave SI yesterday in my last post.
I was hurt by the comment someone made about my 'bipolar mind' accepting things and I felt I was being made to feel stupid for believing H.
I am not going to let that one personal comment stop me posting here or let people's differing views stop me posting. I have got too much help from SI and I know it comes from a well meaning place and people are speaking from their own experiences.
Thank you to all the people who spoke up to say his story is possible, it really helped.
We talked last night and I really feel I know what I am dealing with now.
I think I am going to pop back over to reconciliation and work on rebuilding our marriage now.
Once my husband finally knew the truth, 4 1/2 years ago, he kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. Understandably: my story went from 'one kiss' to 'oral sex' - why wouldn't it progress to full sex? Of course he doubted. And it was afwul, even for me, from the outside. I wanted to stop the doubts, just so he could start processing, healing, feeling better. I can remember the urge I felt to tell him that I did have full sex, it was a very compelling thought, but I didn't do it. Looking at it now, I see that it wasn't a 'noble' truth, it was still selfish: I'd rather have my husband doubt me than leave me, and at least with the truth I still had a chance of him staying in the marriage. He's still here. He's not waiting for that particular shoe anymore, though he probably wouldn't be too surprised if some other shoe dropped out of nowhere .
So, yes, I can imagine someone telling a 'worse' lie rather than the 'lesser' truth. Thing is, he does need to look at that as well. It may tie into the conflict avoidance/need to please/external validation that helped fuel the affair, but he needs to figure that out for himself. If he keeps telling 'any old story' just to conform to some external standard, you will not be exempt from that, and you will not feel (or be) safe. I hope he can go to a good IC soon, that would probably help a lot.
Good luck in Reconciliation.
Sailorgirl...Im sorry you misunderstood. As you said,it was written from a place of caring, as are all of my posts here.
Did I want to believe MY HUSBAND sucked some OM's dick? Um..not even a little bit. But he did. A few months after dday,as my shock wore off, I was literally staring at myself in the mirror several times a day saying out loud," he did this...he REALLY did this."
So..I completely get not wanting to believe what our WS's really did. Im well aware that fucked up people do fucked up things. If you know my story, then you know I live with a man who did some pretty horrific things. And has worked very hard to be a different,better man.
I didn't mean to sound in any way patronizing.
Good morning olwen. Im glad you are feeling better. What are you going to do for yourself today?
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
Left too late - that was very helpful thank you. I can't believe I didn't recognise his conflict avoidance in the way his story kept changing. I think you're quite right and I will bring it up with him today as an example, thanks for pointing it out.
I am getting it now and that's what matters. He was working on it til late last night.
Thanks for answering, and I absolutely know you were coming from a place of helpfulness and understanding of betrayal.
I think my post was unclear. I didn't just mean that I didn't want to believe my that my H had an affair--of course I didn't, but I accepted it. I meant that I did not want to believe that the sexual contact was bad. I did not want to believe that he was messed up enough to have sex when he wasn't turned-on. To compulsively arouse himself physically even though he genuinely did not want to have sex.
It's not a relief to know that the sex was awful. It's not what I desperately want to believe. It's actually very disturbing and really sad that my sweet man would do something so gross, destructive, detached, and full of self-hatred.
It's very hard to accept, and it goes along with accepting that my H was damaged to the core by child abuse of all kinds.
edited to add: I'm not saying that I think this is exactly what happened with your, H, Olwen. Just that it is complicated. And it is possible for men to be aroused physically, but not emotionally or mentally. It is possible for sex to feel bad.
[This message edited by sailorgirl at 7:15 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]
I still have days when I want it to be as simple as "He was hot for her, she was hot for him, so they had hot sex." But all three of those things are false.
I am also glad you have chosen to discard the personal statement that was made, and stay on SI. Remember that for all the collective wisdom and experience on SI, your own personal journey is just that. Yours. Personal. You know what advice feels right; choose that to take away.
Thanks, sailorgirl, for addressing that statement about body parts working. You did it with a lot of tact.
If your need to know whether he's telling the truth is so strong, a polygraph could set your mind at rest. If that's what it takes, find the $$$ and do it.
But......if the polygraph says he lied, what will be your next move?
"I could have missed the pain, but I would have had to miss the dance." Garth Brooks
[This message edited by olwen at 8:40 AM, November 19th (Tuesday)]
I decided against a polygraph early on, 1) we can't afford it 2) they are not completely accurate.
Now - I feel I have enough of the truth to move on.
If it turned out he was madly in love or lust or whatever I have decided I would still stay after seeing the changes in him. It would be harder for me but yes I would stay so I am going to focus on that now.