Anyhow, he asked me if I would mention names. I told him that I want him to be successful in life for my children’s sake. But I cannot lie if I am asked a question. He told me to answer how I saw fit for the benefit of the household. *enter another eye roll here* I told him that people at work know more than he thinks. This surprised him and he asked me how I knew that and pressed me who had given me that information. I only told him how it had gotten back to me that higher ups knew more was going on then he admitted to them. He said that yeah, Sergeants had asked her point blank and while she didn’t lie she would say “her business is her business”. I asked him how long he expected to keep it a ‘secret’. He said they are only concerned about her ex finding out because he participates in the training my husband would be involved in for this new position. They are concerned he could make an attack look like a ‘training accident’. *my eyes hurt from rolling so much* besides, he is concerned about people being involved in their personal business. They both don’t see this as the conflict of interest that it is.
So what got my mind ablaze last night was during this conversation, he said that rumors had been going around since he was on graveyards but no nothing was going on then, they just talked. My husband was on graveyards before our daughter was born last December. After she was born is when things really started to go downhill. I realized that he probably was starting to emotionally disconnect at that point. While I may not have handled things well, how much of my emotional distress was because he was starting to lean towards this OW? Is it entirely possible that his relationship with her did cause some of our problems? So that is what brings me to my beginning question. When can a relationship be considered an affair?
This could be an unplanned ONS, or a very well hidden LTA, no matter what, it starts when the WS, instead of going to their BS with their issues, turns away from the BS and seeks it elsewhere.
The slippery slope can be long or short, but they all start the same way.
PAs are easy to know when they start. But EAs are a different animal. I think they start when it becomes a secret.
Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
While I may not have handled things well, how much of my emotional distress was because he was starting to lean towards this OW? Is it entirely possible that his relationship with her did cause some of our problems?
It is entirely certain that his relationship with her caused problems before the physical part of the affair started. It's likely that he was crossing lines with her right from the start of their relationship. If they were talking about personal things--especially their marriages, that was inappropriate and a slippery slope. Most AP's complain to each other about their spouses and flirt. Of course he would have to disconnect from you because he was already betraying you and hiding something from you. He also needed to make it your fault that he was getting close to another woman. He was probably critical, irritable, picking fights and withdrawing.
you don’t know how hard it is to know you could stop all the pain and not be willing to
What an arrogant SOB. He and OW deserve each other.
To sum up, if one spouse thinks they are entitled to a secret, special relationship on the side, that causes big problems in the marriage dynamic. A relationship is inappropriate as soon as you are saying or doing anything that you wouldn't say or do if your spouse was there. And I am so sorry that your husband has his head up his ass!
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
So, to answer your question, I agree with No12turn2, the second they do something they don't want you to see. There was a saying I saw somewhere and it said something like, An affair doesn't start with a kiss or a touch, if you are deleting things so your spouse won't see, you are already there. That is how I feel. For me, it's when they are standing on the slippery slope and do not turn and run away, they just stay there to see if they will slide, whether consciously or not.
[This message edited by OldCow18 at 12:20 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]
He reciprocated. Well over a 1,000 texts to each other at all hrs for one month. They went out with her new boss (who helped her be with him) twice during that month drinking as "Work friends". They stayed out till 2am and 4am. This is August now.
The day after labor day...me suspicious...I checked his phone to see a text from him telling her he had an emotional connection with her. Do you? highschool bullshit puppy love crap...we have to stop talking...I want to work on my marriage...I think highly of you and wish the best for you and wish we can get to know each other better...HER...yes...okay...what will you tell your wife...I am afraid she is going to ruin my life..blah...blah...blah.
In my book and his...the affair started when he realized he liked her and chose to get to know her better. When they started to flirt with each other.
Still an A...he chose to go after something he liked...(later it wasn't about her...just the attention he said) He didn't notice her for months till she started flirting.
[This message edited by hopefulmother at 12:29 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]
But no, she isn't the cause, he is. It took me a long time to even admit that he was actually having an EA - i was so snowed. He had secret lunches and deleted text messages - it was an EA.
So, the moment they start hiding, it crosses the lines.
I love that your WH is seeing a few consequences of his tru lurve.
Now he is texting me that the OW is flipping out about someone meddling in their personal business and she may need to file for hostile work environment. They need to know the name of who I got this info from because they need to deal with it on a personal level so it doesn't blow up. I am not saying anything. You say you haven't slept with her so it is not really an affair than what are you really afraid of? If this guy is so dangerous why don't you call the police? Please, I think they are worried about not getting promotions. Not my problem. Choices have consequences...
him idiotic sex addicted, hormone addled, porn watching, post pubescent male with a walking hard on for anything without a penis
4 kids 15 13 12 8
Earned my *F* the hard way; no longer defining mysel
It's affair-speak. Translation: I'm cheating but it's not my fault.
What is KWIM Whiteflower?
BTW, boo fucking hoo on the poor widdle dumsel in distress OW that doesn't want any one in her business. Really? Should have thought about that when you entered someone else's marrige.
Hells no, you don't need to give up your source ever, Rabecca. In fact, please don't.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
The Ow works for my husband. Their texts were mostly about work, nothing sexual at all but he loved to make her laugh. So there was some friendly banter back and forth, lots of smiley faces. I think they would use any reason they could think of to text each other. I could only recover 2 months worth of texts but his bills show them texting up to 1400 times a month.
My husband seems to think that the fact that their messages were not sexual means it wasn't an actual EA but I disagree. If it was just business, why keep it a secret? Why delete it? Why list her as someone else under his contact list?
Scubachick, yeah that all is pretty suspicious. Especially listing her under a different name? If you have nothing to hide why are you hiding things?
Yeah, I fully know my WH is having an EA because he moved out. It was just interesting the new information about how long communication was going on. It brought to light things that have been eating at me that I didn't understand. I have new clarity and am actually able to stop blaming myself. I know I shouldn't have been in the first place but it is one of those easier said than done things for me. I want to shake him and say 'Why would your coworkers think something was going on if you were not giving the appearance? If an affair is not your intention, just hearing people talk like that should have clued you in that your interactions were crossing a line.' I just get more and more baffled at how stupid they get when they are in the fog. It is crystal clear to everyone else. Nothing good comes from things done in secret or deceit, even if it is only lies of omission.
[This message edited by Rabecca at 3:11 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]
I think it was an affair when they flirted and teased each other just as co-worker friends. Because, I sure as Hell know he would never flirt or tease with her in my presence. Flirting and teasing a co-worker back and forth in itself makes up some type of inappropriate relationship. So, any ongoing actions they would never do in front of you?
F*&$ I hate that co-worker affair crap!
And frankly the above post is correct.... your DID (damsel in distress) OW should have considered all ramifications prior to engaging in an inappropriate relationship with a man who wasn't available. Too bad for her.
Please do NOT reveal your sources.