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Ex, let's call him *%^$#!!!! today, went on a nice va-cay last week and didn't tell kids. Kids found out and were very hurt that he hid this information from them, I posted that oldest dd called him "selfish'. I encouraged her to talk to him, which she did.

When dropping off kids last Sunday, I asked what week he was going to take the kids post Christmas, per our SA, he takes them one week. He said, in front of the kids, "I don't have any vacation time left, I can't take them!!!" I mumbled, "You just got back from a weeks va-cay with your boyfriend…I think you could find the time to take your kids after Christmas." He stomped off, then a few days later emailed me dates that a sitter can cover for him.

Other kid is now having problems at school related to school work, but today I was told they think he is deflecting some emotional stuff on top of a learning disability.

Since ex couldn't be bothered to be at the school meeting, I had to call and tell him the details. He then starts accusing me of badmouthing him to the kids, they hate him because of me…and…the real forehead slap…he wants us to go to "family counseling so we can all learn to communicate better."

I responded, "the "issues" we have around communication are because YOU lie to me and the kids, then when called on it, deflect and avoid."

I am completely stumped at how blindly clueless he is. He even told me on the phone that he didn't want to tell the kids where he was because he KNEW dd has been begging to go there for years. So, he felt it was best to just not tell her. He felt it was more important to go with his boyfriend and hide this from the kids.

I pointed out to him that is the same logic he used to carry on years of affairs.

He hung up on me.

How? What?? How. How. How do these people walk around and look like normal people?

Will I seriously have to go to therapy where he is going to charm there therapist, look like the great guy, it takes months for the therapist to be able to see through him, wait for him to be told he has major issues…all while dragging the kids through this as "family counseling"?

First of all I would quit communicating by phone. Start getting everything in emails or text messages. Helps with not getting as upset and you have a record. Second a definite no to family counseling at the moment. If you want to work with him and a counselor then do that, but don't suck the kids into that right now. If you aren't interested then encourage him to go get help on communicating better. Your participation and the kids participation is not key to his learning how to communicate. My guess is that he won't do this and wants to use the session to charm an IC to his perception. He is looking to blame you and the kids for his situation with the kids.

Look into hiring a parenting coordinator.

Yeah, I switched to text. I do everything I can to not talk to him at all, but with the kid stuff…I do have to communicate. It was too long and involved for an email or text. I do not want to be accused of keeping him out of the loop on kid related issues.

He texted me…"you didn't HAVE to tell the kids I was on vacation. This is your fault they are upset with me."

I went crickets. I'm not responding. His logic is beyond my comprehension. He will drag the kids in because he really sees this as "my fault".

Like, seriously. This is going to be the rest of my life?? You think once you separate, move, start a new life, have your kids settled, that IT is over. You move on.

But, the stupid continues. The rest of my life, I have to deal with his stupid shit.

I'm just venting.

I hear you! Its very frustrating to deal with ex's crazy thinking and behavior. I think it will become easier when the kids are older. There wont be a need to communicate very often.

First off, hell no to the family counseling. There is no need to drag the kids into this. If he thinks communication needs to be better between the two of you then perhaps you two can go. But I sincerely doubt any type of counseling is going to take effect on him. It will be a fruitless endeavor that will just make you frustrated.

With that being said, it seems as though a lot of your frustration comes from trying to get him "to see the light." IMHO, you should have avoided the comment about the vacation with the boyfriend. I know how hard it is to keep quiet, but sometimes we just have to bite our tounges. He is a selfish douche who will NEVER realize how his assanine actions affect his kids. And the more you try to lead him, the more he will resist and lay the blame on you.

There are countless idiotic, selfish, hypocritical, and just plain stupid decisions that XH has made which have negatively affected DD. Unfortunately, I learned long ago that talking to XH about them gets me absolutely nowhere.

I'm sorry you have to deal with him.

I agree, he will never see the light, and I've given up on trying. Per our separation agreement, he is to have custody for 1 week after Christmas, and has done this for the previous 2 years…so why he thought he could "opt out" because he blew his va-cay time is beyond me. I didn't back down, I just told him to deal with it.

What has changed is the kids are now old enough that THEY are telling him how they feel. So now that they can communicate how they feel about his actions…he is pissed off and blaming it on me.

He has never heard it from them before.

I think reality just slapped him in the face.

Are you okay with them being watched by a babysitter for a week?

While people are asking for stupid shit, could I please have Luxembourg?

Well, he first said the sitter could watch them the 3 days before Christmas, and I just replied, "NO. Try again." Most of the time he has them on a weekday, they are with a sitter. He can't seem to save his vacation time to be with this kids. I gave up that battle long ago. It's his custody week, he has to figure it out.

There's this whiz bang new thing called leave without pay.

FTG. Do not speak to him cmego - you need to get this shit in writing.

Gently, If I was a kid hearing that exchange between my parents I would feel like neither of them wanted me. Don't discuss any of this in front of them because you don't know what fuckery he will pull.

To be clear I'm not taking his side here in any way, shape or form. He is absolutely in the wrong. Your kids are getting caught up in this and may be no matter what you do but not talking him AT ALL in person can help mitigate some of that risk.

I do everything I can to not talk to him at all, but with the kid stuff…I do have to communicate. It was too long and involved for an email or text. I do not want to be accused of keeping him out of the loop on kid related issues.

Sorry cmego- but there is nothing that cannot be communicated via text. I know it is hard, I know it is painful, but I'm going to call you out here-- I do NOT speak to the Dooosh ever. We strictly communicate via phone or text. Period.

Does not matter how "long or involved" the conversation must be. Just stop talking to him and much of your frustration will cease. He isn't ever going to see your arguments as reality. He cannot. The truth is too painful.

Girl your know this. What are you getting out of those phone conversations?? Or... What are you trying to get??

And how's that working for you?

Just stop. No more phone convos. Stick to emails. Stick to texting. He cannot understand that any of this is due to his poor choices, so instead of trying to convert him to your way of thinking just remember he is incapable of taking responsibility and relay the facts. Period. I promise it will get easier.

cmego I have to agree with PR.

My SO and his XWW have not had a phone conversation since 2009. They ONLY communicate via e-mail...no even text.

TG and I occasionally take the kids to family counseling. We've informed the XWW of this but she is not invited. She isn't family anymore.

he wants us to go to "family counseling so we can all learn to communicate better."

Ironic that the person who withholds important information from his family wants to go to counselling to communicate better...lol.

Ehhh….for the most part we are very civil to each other. Truly. I stay on the high road, so a phone call about a very serious issue with our son isn't out of the realm for us. It has been a very involved process up until this point, and I had 1.5 hour meeting with the school, and I did not have the time to type it out and he wanted to know what happened. I don't blame him, this is a big deal. LittleCmego is probably going to be diagnosed with a serious learning disability. It has been a fight with the school and overwhelming for me.

What I didn't expect was his attack, and I'm already over it.

He texted and apologized to me this morning. I didn't respond.

I'm just going to sit back and wait to see if he tries to "bring up family counseling to improve our communication" again. I will deal with it then.

With his position at work, he probably can't take leave at this time of year. It is his problem, if he is going to miss out on his kids at Christmas, I can't change that. It is his choice. I have the kids the week before and week of Christmas…which is what is important to me. BTW, I didn't say to him "figure it out" in front of the kids, I waited until they went upstairs to say, and I said it softly,"You just took a week off…figure it out." He stomped out the door like a 2 year old. That it his way of "pouting", I can spot it instantly now. Passive aggressive bullshit.

It is almost like I am so used to my current life, all seems "normal" to me now. So, when these attacks come now, I'm thrown by them. I get he is in pain from his own choices, and will always fall back to his "corner", which is to blame me for his problems. It has been pushing 4 years to d-day, and he still blames me.

It seems so simple to me…live a good life, make good choices. I don't understand his position. He makes poor choices, then is upset when he has to live with them. So, now I don't tell him he made a poor choice…his KIDS tell him. It's a new ball game now. The rules are changing.

I would be very suspicious of this suggestion to go to counseling, personally.

After d-day, my X was all for attending marriage counseling. Then I found out that he had hand picked a MC who specialized in open marriages. He was never taken to task for cheating and it was basically open season on me for all my many many flaws and constant admonishment for not being more highly evolved. (because non monogamous people are better people, I guess )

So I have to wonder if he's found some "family counselor" that he thinks will take his side and put you in what he thinks is your place.

CMego,

I understand where you are coming from. My ex did the same thing his first year we were separated. He took his GF on vacation down south. When we were planning summer vacation he said he had no vacation time left, he used it all.

This year, DS, BF and I all went on a carribean cruise (it was amazing) and now suddenly EX is all stressed out that we are going on these great vacations and he is 'left out'. His choice. He can make vacation plans just as well as I can.

As I have often said, they are losing out by treating their children in this manner. One day they are going to wake up and realize how much damage they caused.

dck~ I found out post d-day, that some of the counseling he dragged me to when we were still married~ he TOLD the MC in private that he was having gay affairs but *refused* to allow her to tell me.

So…picture this setting…two people in MC. The therapist knows the husband is probably gay and is cheating. Yet, he goes into therapy and proceeds to blame the wife for all the problems in the marriage and the MC's hands are tied. She has to sit there and listen to the wife blaming herself for all the problems in the marriage because the husband pounds it into her head that the marriage is falling apart because of her. The husband is bashing the wife for every transgression (like the wife isn't "nice" enough, the wife doesn't like his mother enough, the wife is too busy with the kids to pay enough attention to him, the wife wanted to live closer to her family and she knew they had to move for his career, the wife has put on weight…) The manipulation is staggering.

When I even think about those counseling sessions now, my mind goes a little blank. Protecting myself from that manipulation now. Like post d-day, my mind refused to allow me to think about anything too deep in regards to how he manipulated me. My mind protects me from that pain.

His manipulation of everyone around him is scary, and he knows what to say/how to keep therapist "quiet" because he is in the medical field. I do not trust him at all in therapy. I asked my IC if therapist can see through someone like him…and she told me some of the things they look for in MC to figure out the relationship. He doesn't even know that he shows himself as a very controlling, "in power" person.

I will do everything I can to not go into therapy with him as a "family unit" because he truly believes that his choices in the past should have no bearing on what is going on today. None. The kids will be put in the middle of HEARING how good of a father he is, and SEEING his poor choices. Like me. The disconnect of hearing one thing and seeing something else. He will pound into their heads that he is a great person and great father, yet they can now SEE something else. It is how me manipulated me.

I will fight this if it comes to fruition. I'm not afraid of him any longer. I no longer fear that he can take the kids away, it has been 3 years now of me being a steady and great Mom, and he has shown his priorities are elsewhere. No judge in the world is going to take these kids away from me. No judge would change custody that works because some asshole is posturing.

I can now kinda put him on a shelf and live my life. I don't think about it too much. Which is why I get blindsided when he does something stupid. I just keep thinking the stupid shit should be over now.

Since ex couldn't be bothered to be at the school meeting, I had to call and tell him the details. He then starts accusing me of badmouthing him to the kids, they hate him because of me…and…the real forehead slap…he wants us to go to "family counseling so we can all learn to communicate better."

Your mistake here is that you did NOT have to call and tell him the details. Those details are available to him the same way they were available to you. You scan and email him a copy of the invitation and he attends or he follows up with the school personnel who gave you the information. The end.

I responded, "the "issues" we have around communication are because YOU lie to me and the kids, then when called on it, deflect and avoid."

He baited you, you responded. He lays traps and you fall in. You are still very much his "supply." Until you shut that spigot off, the positive "high road" supply and the negative defensive supply (which is higher in value, btw, because it verifies his control over you in his mind) ... until you stop playing this game will go on and on and on.

He hung up on me.

Of course he did! HE got what he needed. And you are left fuming, and bewildered and out of sorts, even if it was just for a few minutes!!!

but with the kid stuff…I do have to communicate.

Actually, no you don't. You cannot shut him out and hide where he goes to school or who the doctor is, but the information and the grades, and the progress in school and whether the kids worry or have bad dreams or like pokemon or fruit loops or iron man is all stuff he can find out on HIS OWN. You discover the kids have a peanut allergy? Yes, inform him every which way from Sunday. But other than that, let him have conversations, make phone calls, attend meetings or just be IGNORANT OF HIS OWN CHILDREN.

The end result will be the same, except that right now you are trying to make him care by making him aware. It won't ultimately work and you and the kids will be frustrated because he has all the information and you have tried to MAKE him care and still he does not. His passive failure to step up might be less painful for everyone.

I agree, he will never see the light, and I've given up on trying.

Cross stitch this and hang it in your house....

because this exchange

Well, he first said the sitter could watch them the 3 days before Christmas, and I just replied, "NO. Try again."

sounds a lot like you are still trying.....

Ehhh….for the most part we are very civil to each other. Truly. I stay on the high road, so a phone call about a very serious issue with our son isn't out of the realm for us. It has been a very involved process up until this point, and I had 1.5 hour meeting with the school, and I did not have the time to type it out and he wanted to know what happened. I don't blame him, this is a big deal.

Just because y'all are civil most of the time does not make it a good idea to converse. This is akin to spending money you don't have on lottery tickets because every once in awhile you win a dollar.

Again, he wanted to know what happened, he attends the meeting or he calls the school. You want him to care what happened, but I see no evidence that he really does. You want him to have the information because it might make him care so you give it to him.... but this is not making him care and it is keeping you involved in his parenting.

The charming fuckers are the worst. I know you are trying to be reasonable and do the right thing, but I feel like it is holding you back.

So…picture this setting…two people in MC. The therapist knows the husband is probably gay and is cheating. Yet, he goes into therapy and proceeds to blame the wife for all the problems in the marriage and the MC's hands are tied. She has to sit there and listen to the wife blaming herself for all the problems in the marriage because the husband pounds it into her head that the marriage is falling apart because of her. The husband is bashing the wife for every transgression (like the wife isn't "nice" enough, the wife doesn't like his mother enough, the wife is too busy with the kids to pay enough attention to him, the wife wanted to live closer to her family and she knew they had to move for his career, the wife has put on weight…) The manipulation is staggering.

Cmego, you just wrote my story!!! Except add the S&M stuff of course.

You are getting so strong. Wow. I agree that your kids should not have to sit through therapy that will hurt and confuse them about actions versus pretty words.

(((HUGS)))