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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 16
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Minimum effort. O I can relate to that.

WW did and does the same.

Back what I was still allowed to respond to messages on the wayward forum I even posted about that. Basically if a WS wants to save the marriage they need to be ALL IN. Total commitment. And if they are not all in then they need to get the hell out. Because that would be easier for everyone involved.

A person that is all in will give everything they have without reservation. They will risk crashing and burning if they fail without a thought. Total commitment. Holding any bit of effort back because its just too uncomfortable or because they fear some risk to their self just wont cut it. They wont give a thought to looking bad or risking their reputation. They will do what a mother would do if their child were laying on the tracks of an on coming train.

Sadly I dont think many are willing to do that. Its too important to save face. Too important to be comfortable and preserve their self esteem. And I think this POV is partly to blame for how they got into this mess.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Health issues?

Has anyone else had health issues due to being betrayed?

Not just the PTSD stuff. But things like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, stomach issues, and so forth.

I used to love my whiskey. and beer. Now if I have even a little nip Im sick for days. My blood pressure is higher than it should be and Im on some pretty heavy cholesterol meds.

This gift just keeps on giving.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry WB. I know you gave it your best.

BTW, I did the same thing two days ago. Just trying to get through the holidays.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone else had health issues due to being betrayed?

You mean other than the shakes, skyrocketing blood pressure, and the inability to sleep? Nope not at all.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fuck, you too Sal? Sorry mate. I hadn't heard that.

PTSD, blown disk in my back from shaking, partial paralysis, MRSA, nightmares. I don't know, I think it affected my health. Bonus side effect is I lost 50 pounds and no longer have to take high blood pressure meds. Traded them for prozac.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel ya sal.

I won't speak for all menz, but the progressions towards being done in my case was just a slow spiral.

I remember when I first found out. I vowed to change to save the marriage. Got her the boots that she wanted (she was bitching to her AP that she didn't get the boots that she wanted for xmas)---I still hate those fucking boots. What a chump.

Man, the fist couple of months it was my fault and I was gonna save the marriage.

Then anger hit, but it was still up to me to control it. If I could control my anger, then I could still save the marriage.

Any tiny sign of effort or remorse from JRNPA was enough to give me hope, because I was gonna save this marriage. So I took every minimal scrap and used it as a life-line. Something to cling to.

I am not sure when the fatigue hit. Probably around just over a year and a half. I sat back and took stock of what we had been through. I started to realize that it wasn't worth saving.

She found God. Good for her. That's how she got her forgiveness. that's how she decided she could save the marriage. By praying for it, instead of taking action. Oh, your a christian now? How awesome for you. I guess everything is fine then. Maybe you won't go to hell for destroying our lives. Shoot, just ask for forgiveness and you get to start with a clean slate!

So now I am just tired. Nearly two years of trying to fix this, fix me, fix her (I know I know..can't fix her--didn't stop me from trying).

It's sad. I don't love her anymore. I think that is the worst part. I don't have the anger anymore, I just don't like her.

Did I really just spend 2 years trying to save a marriage with a person I don't even like?

I guess I did love her at the start, but two years of this, with minimal effort from her has just gradually eroded my love and respect for her.

So gentlemen. I wish I had known then what I Know now.

Scraps aren't enough. Minimal effort isn't enough. When it comes to R, (in my case) she should have been trying to exceed my expectations, not fighting me to lower the bar of my expectations. I should have seen it coming.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, my wife really seemed to be trying for the first 6 months or so, but started getting a little nutty beginning in August. That month, she told our oldest child that she always suspected me of cheating on her earlier in our marriage. I've never cheated on her in any way, shape or form. And she never raised the issue with me.

In October, during an argument, she once again insinuated that I had betrayed her at some point, although she can't seem to give any specific instances. She assumes my morals and character are no better than hers, I guess.

Finally, on Monday she told the marriage counselor that she doesn't trust me, and that basically all men are the same. The enemy, I suppose. They just want to use her. And she ripped S.I., saying that it's just a "Mrs. Sal 1995-bashing" forum. Whatever. If accurately describing her horrible acts and the resulting destruction to our marriage and family is "bashing," then guilty as charged.

The distrust part...wow. To have a cheating wife say that to a faithful husband of so many years is an experience that is really beyond my ability to describe. This is what she has to say about a man who committed the rest of his life to her 18 years ago. Who has faithfully kept our marriage vows. Words fail.

I'm sorry that her father abandoned her when she was 12 and that the trauma severely damaged her ability to trust and emotionally connect with men, but there's nothing I can do about that. I've been with her 50% longer than her dad ever was, but it's just not good enough. Nothing ever is. I regret that she allowed herself to be manipulated and used by a player who picked her up in a bar. That certainly wouldn't have been my choice for her. But I refuse to be lumped in with a deadbeat dad and an AP who treated her like a free hooker for almost a year. Yeah, some men are rotten. So are some women.

We've been together almost 19 years. If she can't see the man I am after all this time, she'll never see it. Bottom line is that I don't have a cure for whatever ails her, and it's time to accept that and let go. And I'm not just saying this, it's the truth - if there's a man out there who can get through to her and help her become a happy, content person, then I wish that for her. I'm not the guy. She's been trying to tell me that for many years. I hear her now, loud and clear.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 3:59 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When it comes to R, (in my case) she should have been trying to exceed my expectations, not fighting me to lower the bar of my expectations.

I used to joke back when I was single and out with the guys "when all else fails, lower your expectations". That is shitty advice, BTW.

I'll have a beer for each of you. That's the least I can do. Really.


Married: 16 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3306 | Registered: Dec 2011
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWB, I'm really sorry for jacking your support, brother. Been holding it in for a couple of days, and your post opened the floodgates.

I'm putting my supportive BM brother hat on right now, and ask you the same thing I've been asking myself - could it be the stress of the holidays talking, more than anything else?

Knowing that my wife was screwing another man last Thanksgiving and Christmas is tough to process. I believe your wife's affair time period covered the holidays as well.

Do you think the issue is settled in your mind already, or is this just where you are today?


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fuck man.... Sal... SDWB.... man. Speechless.... I don't even know what to say.

How about this.... I hope you both find yourselves, 5 years from now, on vacation, sitting on a beach next to a beautiful woman who truly loves you and you realize just how happy life can be, with her hand in one of yours and a glass of your favorite adult bev in the other.

Happy Thanksgiving.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWB, I'm really sorry for jacking your support, brother. Been holding it in for a couple of days, and your post opened the floodgates.

There is no such thing as support jacking. Sorry you are struggling too. Affair seasons are terrible, sucks that they muck up the holidays too. At some point we are gonna needz to get a menz get together going. Ski trip anyone?

Nope, I don't think it's just the holidays. I have been feeling this way for a while. Thought it was just a phase but then realized that the "Phase" was the 2 years trying to revive a dead marriage with a damaged person. Like you, I am finally seeing my wife for who she is.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll have a beer for each of you. That's the least I can do. Really.

That's big of you, man. Thanks.

When it comes to R, (in my case) she should have been trying to exceed my expectations, not fighting me to lower the bar of my expectations.

Exactly. I asked my wife several times to join SI and told her that she could do all of her posting in the protected Wayward forum. She refused, saying it's not her "thing" to post online. Uhh, yeah, but it's my "thing," and I'm the one whose world you turned upside down. Creating a profile, discussing her issues, and taking a few loving 2x4s from Aubrie and FRM from time-to-time was apparently too much of a sacrifice. Despite her distaste for it, she could have done it for me. Once again, I lose.

ETA: WB, if I remember correctly your WW created a profile, actually posted a few times, but quickly abandoned SI. I didn't even get that half-ass effort. Telling, isn't it?

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 1:04 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
ontheslope
♂ Member
Member # 40574
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for physical symptoms:

Anxiety
Panic Attacks (the land you in the ER variety)
Dizziness
Brain fog
scalp tingling/numbness
inability to concentrate
insomnia

There may be more... but those are the ones my IC considers as part of my psycho-somatic response to this fucked-uppedness.


Me: BH, 35
Her: WW, 36
Two girls 7 & 10
Married 12 years
Dday: July, 2009

She wants answers... I'm still trying to figure out what the questions are.


Posts: 255 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Maine, USA
SuperDuperWonderboy
♂ Member
Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ETA: WB, if I remember correctly your WW created a profile, actually posted a few times, but quickly abandoned SI. I didn't even get that half-ass effort. Telling, isn't it?

I don't know, her effort was so half-assed, it would have been better if she hadn't at all.

Funny, I had some simple requests that she would fight me over. IC/MC/Post on SI.
She finally beat me down over the SI, and then found excuses not to do IC/MC.

She read a couple of books after a blow up, just to appease me, then that stopped as well. She bent over backwards for her affair partner (literally and figuratively), but for me, too much work or "it wasn't her thing."

I think Razor said it earlier, a wayward trying to reconcile should be all the way in plus some.

"Oh, you think it would help to post on SI...I'll be on there 24/7"
"Oh you want MC...I schedule something for tomorrow"
"Oh you want IC..I set up an appointment yesterday"

But we got the spoiled child syndrome...too much work, can't we just pretend that everything is fine?

As I look back she was always about the minimum, and then not even that. Totally not worth me.


ETA: Ontheslopes. That sucks. Fucking panic attacks are the worst.

[This message edited by SuperDuperWonderboy at 1:14 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
1985
♂ Member
Member # 28171
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wonderboy and Sal, my head is spinning at the moment. Christ, I am so so sorry to hear your announcements. I am finding words difficult to come by at the moment. I had thought that each of your Wives had seen the light, had found true remorse and were working their butts off to make the M work. I think what you have each just described as driving you to decide to D is unfortunately true in way more circumstances than would ever be imagined. I suspect that the sad truth is that a woman (and I'm sure this is true of wayward husbands also) who is so filled with self entitlement, so certain that what SHE wants for herself is ok to do and so self righteous that she can only say "sorry I hurt you" but never say "sorry I ever did it" --- that when such a person crosses that final boundary and starts screwing someone else, it is very difficult for her ever to reach a point of being able to give everything the betrayed spouse needs to fully heal and regain the sense of love and trust that makes staying married worthwhile. There is something in their personality that makes it impossible for them to fully comprehend the enormity of the damage the A has caused. And something that makes them incapable of feeling true empathy towards their H. Which leads to a variety of ongoing problems: blame shifting, refusal to discuss the A, refusal to dig deep enough to figure out "why"she made the choice to do it, failure to change from the focus always having to be her needs/wants and on and on.
Some can do it. And as an aside, HT, I am so happy to hear that WOES still appears to be one that can. But I fear that a large percentage just can't and the question(s) become: how long can she fake it before her BH figures out what you two have now figured out and/or are you willing to settle for what she is willing to do in order to stay married.
I think in reading in SI over the years I have seen a goodly number of husbands who have opted to stay married but who, either openly or impliedly, acknowledge that they are really not happy but for their own personal reasons, see staying married as the lesser of two evils. And that is always so sad to read.
So-- I am sorry to hear that you have concluded you need to D. BUT I am happy for you that you have been able to make a decision that is right for you rather than just coasting miserably along unable to decide. You are both still young enough to start over and you each have so much to offer. I am confident you will find peace and happiness in the future. Best wishes.


Me-BH 63
Her-fWW 63
DDay: June 1985. 5 years after A ended
DDay June, 1985
DDay June 1985
Still married - actually in love
2 grown kids; 4 grandkids

Posts: 590 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest - large city
LetMeRollIt
♂ Member
Member # 41189
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Super and Sal, I'm in a similar boat, except so far every time I get pushed to the limit, and put the fear of me leaving into her, she has just enough of a breakthrough to keep me around.

I find it maddening, but as I have seen progress in her dealing with her shit, I stay.

I wonder, though, if I will be saying the same thing in 2 years…


Health issues? I didn't sleep for 6 days after DDay, and didn't eat anything but Boost for 2 weeks. Started working out to make myself sleep and eat, and 4 months later I am 25lbs lighter and in the best shape of my life.

But Insomnia, panic attacks, tingling hands and feet, racing heart, I get all that. Good times.


D day- June 30, 2013
Me - BS
Married 15 years
5 year old child
Attempting R as of Oct. 1 2013

"Cry, and let your soul be cleansed of a love that turned to carnage." - Christy Brown


Posts: 98 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Canada
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny, I had some simple requests that she would fight me over. IC/MC/Post on SI.
She finally beat me down over the SI, and then found excuses not to do IC/MC.

She read a couple of books after a blow up, just to appease me, then that stopped as well.

Funny, my wife was in such damage control mode after D Day, she immediately set up MC appts., got an STD test, etc. But once that started to fade and she saw that D would not be immediate, she changed. I signed up for SI in April, and by that time she was secure enough not to take my suggestions about creating a profile.

To my knowledge she hasn't read a single book about healing or recovering from an affair. She's not much of a reader, but come on, this is your marriage we're talking about. She just wasn't motivated to do any of that. Our MC mentioned "After the Affair" in one of our first sessions, but my wife never showed the slightest interest in getting the book.

Now I need a book that will help me explain to our 7-year old twins why Daddy doesn't want to live with them anymore. Good times.

A person that is all in will give everything they have without reservation. They will risk crashing and burning if they fail without a thought. Total commitment.

True. Except a person like that is very unlikely to betray their spouse in the first place, unless they had some major epiphany post D-Day.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope you both find yourselves, 5 years from now, on vacation, sitting on a beach next to a beautiful woman who truly loves you and you realize just how happy life can be, with her hand in one of yours and a glass of your favorite adult bev in the other.

Thanks slope! That sounds like a good dream. An even better dream would be my wife finding someone who treats her and my kids well. Screw me, screw her - we're adults. We chose each other and have to live with that choice. I worry about our kids. Her AP was a real sleaze, and this just isn't a hurting BH talking. Objectively, most people would find him unsavory in many ways, from what I've heard. The kids didn't ask for any of this. I pray that my wife has the good sense to think of their best interests the next time she finds herself entering the land of unicorns and rainbows, but I'm not optimistic.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SDWB & Sal, Crap, just crap. Sorry to hear this brothers. It's always hard to end a M. After all you have put into this, to have the WW just not *get it* sux.

I was actually coming on today for a little help sorting out a dilemma that just popped up here. After reading what's going on with you guys, I think I've got my answer, but here goes.

WW comes home from a Dr appt. Back issues have flared up again. Her A occurred after Spinal fusion surgery and she was back to working 1/2 days. Deeply depressed. Anyway, came home from the Dr and was explaining her medication routine. I was listening, but looked away at something that had caught my attention on the TV. My bad, no excuses. She popped off a quick "You don't care". Whatever it was, it got under my skin instantly. I repeated verbatim what she had been saying and requested she repeat what she had said, and she did. Accused me of not caring again. Blew me the fuck away. Instant HARD trigger. I had to get out, went to the grocery store. Had a minor anxiety attack. Face and hands started to tingle, got lightheaded. Texted her that I was having one, then quickly sent back NM. Got home and rather than deal with the trigger, was accused of using them to shift blame back onto her and avoid dealing with the issue. Not proud to admit it, but Jack helped me to sleep last night.

Again, Sal, WB, sorry to hear about your sitch, but it helps bring clarity to my sitch.

Thoughts?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Christ, I am so so sorry to hear your announcements. I am finding words difficult to come by at the moment. I had thought that each of your Wives had seen the light, had found true remorse and were working their butts off to make the M work.

Much appreciated, 1985. I thought my wife was remorseful, too. But a remorseful recovering WW doesn't falsely accuse her husband of being a cheater, certainly not to our daughter. And 9 months into R, she doesn't tell her husband and the MC that she doesn't trust me. She's projecting her own bad qualities onto me.

That's not even close to remorse. That's losing the ability to fake remorse.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciled


Posts: 1035 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
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