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wxh wrote:

"We would like both girls to come visit for Christmas however there are some rules which must be followed.

1. Dad & <FOW/nw> make all decisions TOGETHER.

2. Be Respectful to Everyone.

3. Verbal interaction is encouraged, disrespectful retort will not be tolerated.

4. No outside electonics other than phone and ipod.

5. Bed time is 11pm.

6. No phone calls or texts after 9pm, no wifi or any electronics used after 11pm. R

7. Clean up after yourself.

8. Brush your teeth at least twice daily.

9. Shower or Bath at least once daily.

10. This is a family gathering and we will eat together as a family.

This is Not up for Negotiation. All rules will be obeyed. Please pass along for verification of acceptance of the above and a return email stating such by Tuesday 11/26 at 5 pm est

Thanks

<fucktard>"

What I *want* to reply:

I don't control what goes on when the girls are on your watch, just as you don't when they're on mine. So, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by sending me your house rules.

It is out of my area of accountability, nor will I accepting responsibility for how teenagers choose to behave. That would be your job. I advise you to communicate your rules to them directly.

How you do daily things with the girls is your choice. Who you involve to assist your parenting is your choice, fyi decree says both actual parents must agree on caregivers.

However, when it comes to major parental decisions outside of time sharing (like religion, education, legal, medical, etc.) only the actual parents make those choices, per law and non negotiable.

Actual parents are the people listed on their birth certificates. This will never change.

I have not received medical co pay reimbursement as of today.

Please confirm pick up date, early release for <school 1> but not for <school 2>, and drop off date and location to clarify and avoid any miscommunication.

Thanks,

HoT

what I think of his ramblings/my translation decoder, and what I will not send or say:

"FOW/nw made me write this. She dictates here. I am doing you a favor, H.o.T. by visiting my own children at during the holiday even though divorce says this is my year and CS is contingent upon me exercising most of my timesharing! If the girls (teenagers) don't behave I will blame you yet again. You are the reason for everything bad and I will remind you every chance I get! If they behave well, get good grades or otherwise do good things, it will be because of me. I take credit for good and blame you for the bad! I have to put her name in there because I am a wimpy sonofabitch who always needs a partner as a security blanket. I am too weak to stand alone. Wah. I want my mommy! You will make sure the teens act according to these rules even though you won't be there and it is unreasonable for me to expect that, and even though any other sane person would also agree it is unreasonable too. And remember all of this is happening because I couldn't keep my dick in my pants. FOW/NW took me in, a serial cheater, college drop out with a high CS payment and deeply in debt, and personality disordered. No one else would want me so I am terrified of abandonment and being out there alone. I am just a widdle wimpy boy who tries to be a bully so do what I say or she will be mad at me. Wah."

Unfuckingbelievable.

You're response is fine by the way. But holy shit!

Well isn't he a peach? (Insert eye roll).

I agree that your response is fine for the most part. Here's and edit of what I'd send:

When the girls are with you, it is your responsibility to see that they follow your household rules, whatever they might be. It is not necessary to send me a list of your house rules and I certainly dont feel the need to send you a copy of mine.

I will not accept responsibility for how our children choose to behave in your care. You are their father, so I advise you to communicate your rules to them directly.

How you do daily things with the girls is your choice. Who you involve to assist your parenting is your choice. FYI the decree says both actual parents must agree on caregivers.

However, when it comes to major parental decisions outside of time sharing (like religion, education, legal, medical, etc.) only the actual parents make those choices, per law and is non-negotiable. In case you need clarification, actual parents are the people listed on their birth certificates. This will never change.

Thanks,

HoT

I would send a seperate email about the medical expenses and pickup times.

LOVE your translation of his email!!!

As a reply, maybe something along these lines.

Dear little boy,

PS. This guy is a chicken shit and does not want to communicate his demands to his own children because he knows they will object.

ETA: Use a separate email to ask about the money he owes. I use a rule of 1 topic per email, even if I have to send 3 different emails in a row. Otherwise my X can respond to one part of an email but not another but still claim that he responded.

[This message edited by Dreamboat at 11:10 AM, November 25th (Monday)]

Wow ((Helen of Troy)), and I thought my X was a dumbass! Yours actually makes mine seem like a semi-grownup. Thanks for bringing a smile to my face this morning!

Hey Helen. Your response is totally reasonable. As a matter of fact, it is almost REQUIRED in this situation; he doesn't get to blame you for how the kids behave when they are with him. If you're looking for a shorter version, you could always send this instead:

Grow a pair of nuts and pretend you are a responsible parent, you tiny-dicked streak of uselessness.

Either one is fine.

Thank you Dreamboat! this is what I was asking for, how to communicate things to him by leaving emotion out of it. That is a tall order for BS and a skill I am still learning. The tip about one topic for email is something I will also use.

His w needs to know though that she is not an actual parent. She probably wants so much to be accepted as a "parent". That will not happen by me. It is good though just to keep that to myself, maybe a control issue on my part. I will own that.

Pass and everyone

you all are funny. If we can't laugh we'll cry right.

Grow a pair of nuts and pretend you are a responsible parent, you tiny-dicked streak of uselessness.

^^ I vote this one. What a fuckwit, seriously.

Actually - I vote crickets on his idiotic musings. Do not even acknowledge it.

Would your girls want to go there if he gave them this list?

I'd ask your Ls advice about this and also about the medical co-pay.

RainMan,

In addition, I have not received medical co pay reimbursement as of today.

They all seem to pull this kind of shit when UnicornFartLand loses its sparkle. Don't pet the Drama Llama. Ignore everything but things you are required to respond to. The rest is just noise - they are just trying to yank your chain.

Sheesh, just when you think you've seen everything SI unearths little fossilised pieces of shit like this.

Holy conditional love, Batman!

Given the "my way or the highway" tone, I'd add another bit to your translation: "I don't really want them to visit, so I am making unreasonable rules in the hope that they will refuse to do so."

What an asswipe.

jeeeeezuz!

I would completely ignore the bullshit rules. Is he seriously sending this list of rules to a couple of teenage girls??

This is the stupidest man alive.

I would just send back the email about the co-pay and the pick up times.

1. Dad & <FOW/nw> make all decisions TOGETHER.

2. Be Respectful to Everyone.

3. Verbal interaction is encouraged, disrespectful retort will not be tolerated.

4. No outside electonics other than phone and ipod.

5. Bed time is 11pm.

6. No phone calls or texts after 9pm, no wifi or any electronics used after 11pm. R

7. Clean up after yourself.

8. Brush your teeth at least twice daily.

9. Shower or Bath at least once daily.

10. This is a family gathering and we will eat together as a family.

Hmmm...is he in a family or running a military regime....

It would be funny for your teenagers to write back "No-can-do, see ya, pop!"

Other than state reasonable times of pick up and drop off for the holiday visitation, I would go crickets on his ridiculuos and impotent demands!

Now, for me to take my own advice!

Your response is fine, but I think all you need is:

Please communicate your rules to them directly.

Am I correct that he is actually asking them - to what - sign an acknowledgement of receipt of the rules...? And their agreement to them?

So... what are you making for Christmas dinner Hot? Cause I can tell you, that his approach alone is so offensive, that I'd tell him to take a flying leap if I were them.

Feel the love! And if they don't agree... to shit, shave and shower on command.. what no presents...?

We need a new version of It's a Wonderful Life - one where the parent completely alienates their kids and sees into a future where (s)he dies alone.

[This message edited by Take2 at 5:32 PM, November 25th (Monday)]

SBB said: Would your girls want to go there if he gave them this list?

I was wondering the same thing. Teenagers are not going to respond well to this sort of controlling, dictating approach. I'm curious if his (or OW's) objective is really NOT to have them over Christmas, either because they flat out refuse to go... or they refuse to accept his rules and therefore will not be welcome.

I liked your response, by the way. And your translation was spot on!

I'm curious as to what happens between 9pm and 11pm.

Needlework on the sampler? Weaving on the old wooden loom? Songs round the piano? Churning buttermilk? Oh, it's winter, time to make corn-dolls!.

Why the 9pm cut-off? Which is exactly when they all text like crazy.

I would ask him if it's feeling a little breezy down there these days as it appears OW has chopped, sliced and diced his balls for dinner.

1. Dad & <FOW/nw> make all decisions TOGETHER.

2. Be Respectful to Everyone.

3. Verbal interaction is encouraged, disrespectful retort will not be tolerated.

4. No outside electonics other than phone and ipod.

5. Bed time is 11pm.

6. No phone calls or texts after 9pm, no wifi or any electronics used after 11pm. R

7. Clean up after yourself.

8. Brush your teeth at least twice daily.

9. Shower or Bath at least once daily.

10. This is a family gathering and we will eat together as a family.

This is Not up for Negotiation. All rules will be obeyed. Please pass along for verification of acceptance of the above and a return email stating such by Tuesday 11/26 at 5 pm est

Thanks

<fucktard>"

OK - so I am going to be on the other side of the fence here and say that while fucktard could have been a ton more respectful of this - the base of this here is that he is telling you this so that you know what's coming for the girls.

and even though his tone is pretty dictorial, he's actually showing up as a co-parent at the moment.

None of these rules are out of line. Actually all of the rules are pretty good, they outline what he expects and depending on their ages seem very appropriate house rules.

If you step back and pretend just for a second that he was your DH again and not shithead with a cum dumpster - they are rules that most houses have to some degree.

Just because he has to be mr. fucktard dictator, doesn't mean that you do as well.

We tried ALOT to get co-rules between both DSS house and ours so that the expectations would be about the same in both houses. It would help with transitions and also with just the balance for DSS with all the changes. (moving, new brother and sister, ect).

Bio-mom pretty much threw the same fit you are (and we did the email a hell of a lot nicer email - and they had been divorced for 10 years at this point so not sure where the hostility came from)

My suggestion would be to you is to email him back and say that his rules are his own, and that you will respect that. You will let the girls know in your own way what he expects of the girls so that they will not be blindsided by any of them, but that you also need what kind of consequences he has for them if any of them are broken.

I would also send back to him that while the WIFI and Electronics are one thing, they will ALWAYS be allowed to call you at any time, day or night for ANY reason. Period.

[This message edited by Undefinabl3 at 7:53 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

@ pass

And the floggings will continue until morale improves...

Sheesh.

- Avoid

- Paragraphs

- When

- Responding

I think it might be too many words at once.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 8:49 AM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

Uhm, no.

Just no.

There is no teenager on the planet who is going to look at this "List of Demands" (cause that's what it is basically) and say -- Whoop! When do we leave for Dads house?

There may be many households with this set of expectations. However, in this case I don't believe for one second that her ex emailed this over so she could be part of a successful co-parenting situation. For reals?? This fucktard sent this over to:

1. Discourage the kids from actually visiting his house.

2. Set up Helen to fail when she replies with her acceptance to his "List of Demands" and then the kids are disobedient.

3. Not have to have the kids over again- once they enjoy this time with their father, you know they'll be begging to go back soon!!

I would not engage in this load of crap at all. He needs to let his kids know the rules- and not make you the messenger.

One of my kids presents some discipline challenges: loses temper, doesn't turn in school work, etc. If it's a major deal, I inform my Ex of the response I am taking, e.g. DS cannot use computer except for school work, DS must complete all missed assignments for me even if the teacher won't give credit, etc.

I INFORM my child and then I INFORM his father. I inform Ex so that he is aware of what is going on, but I recognize that it's totally up to him whether he wants to take the same steps at his place.

If I were uncertain as to what to do in the way of discipline/rules I might consult my Ex before talking with my child.

What I would never do is: tell my rules to my Ex and then ask HIM to pass on the rules to son. That would imply I am too scared to take the heat for discipline.

To minimize the drama, I would simply reply "Have you communicated your rules to the girls?"