My wife (WW-30)is having an affair and she won't admit it. It's driving me crazy because she thinks I'm so stupid. Here's what I know.
She was texting/talking to the OM (he is 22 years older) since at least February 2013. 1000's of texts and 1000's of minutes. When confronted in August, she made excuses, and they "went underground". Basically, she changed the communication mode to her work phone. Three weeks ago, I find out her phone has been recording its location since she got it at the end of June and that I can track her and see where she's been. She's been to his house, rental house, and house boat multiple times since the beginning of July that I was not aware of. She lied when I asked if she had ever been to his house. Two weeks ago, she was at an Inn in the middle of nowhere for several hours while I was at a football game. She started the day and finished the day at his rental house. She denied he was with her, but I called the Inn this past weekend, and they conformed that he had registered that same day. They provided his first name, and I never told them that. She claims she had no idea he was there and that she pulled over to nap and look on her phone. She still denies that they are any thing other than "just friends" despite all the evidence I have to the contrary. And, of course, she wants a divorce, is not remorseful, says she has done nothing wrong, and that everything wrong with us is my fault. After the Inn confirmed he was there, I told her to get out of the house because I wasn't going to tolerate it any longer. I honestly hope this breaks the fog.
One thing I am really struggling with is this: because of her denying anything physical has ever happened, I still desperately want to believe her because I love her more than anything. I can't (honestly don't want to) believe she would actually do it (but I wouldn't think she could so easily lie to my face either). Is it even possible that it hasn't crossed the physical boundary yet? Or will she ever admit it?
Should I tell our close friends and family at this point or not? Would this even make a difference? She is extremely concerned about me telling anyone and threatens sure divorce if I do. He is divorced and left his girlfriend some time ago (what I was told anyway, and likely to be with my wife), so there is not another betrayed spouse I can call. I tried to talk with her Mom, but she just buried her head in the sand.
Should I call the OM? Does any good come of this?
Will I ever be able to trust her again if she finally snaps out of her "fog"?
Many thanks to those who read the entire story, and I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving.
I don't know much about anything, but i'd say she's having an affair. Overwhelming evidence.
Tell people. Let her divorce you. Why would you stay and be treated this way? It may break the fog, but likely that will continue for a while.
You deserve better.
She will have to earn your trust. EARN.
I'm only a few months ahead of you, so i'm low on advice. Posting and reading here helps. Read about the 180. Come hang out in the Betrayed Men's thread. Misery loves company.
"Cry, and let your soul be cleansed of a love that turned to carnage." - Christy Brown
Your GUT is never wrong. No one goes to the places you have tracked her and spends as much time communicating and they aren't having a physical Affair. Also NEVER EVER give up your sources on how you are finding things out. Time to implement the 180. This will suck and I am sorry you are in this situation but the easiest way to end the A is to expose it.
She is extremely concerned about me telling anyone and threatens sure divorce if I do.
She is extremely concerned about me telling anyone and threatens sure divorce if I do.
She may never snap out of her FOG. You can't love, manipulate, or force someone back into the M. You can only control yourself. It's still early for you so do what you can right now to take care of yourself. Remember NONE of this is your FAULT no matter what she says. Your WW chose to have and continue the A when she had many avenues to address any issues she thinks may have been present in the M or in her life. Post often it helps. Others will be along with more advice soon I am sure.
You have a mountain of evidence. You don't need anymore. She is clearly having an A. You need to let go of the slimmest chance in the world that she might be telling the truth because she is not.
I doubt talking to OM will do much good. If you do the best thing you can tell him is good luck with her cause he will need it. This guy will likely end badly for her, there isnt much you can do to stop that.
You are going to have to let her go. She is so deep in the fog that it is the only chance that she might wake up. I wouldn't bother telling her family, she likely has manipulated the situation so much with them that you don't have a chance to get your side out. Focus on the people that are close to you and in your corner for support.
You are 29, no kids....you are young. It will be hard to get through all of this but you are still young to be able to start over again.
File for D.
Do not talk to her about anything but D proceedings (and children if you have them)
And stop telling her that you are willing to do anything to work on the M.
This makes you appear to be weak and begging and WILL NOT get her out of the fog of this.
It only tells her she can continue to have her A and your are prepared to DO NOTHING about stopping her.
She has to see that her life as she knows it is coming to an end due to her actions.
And, my friend, you are truly in denial if you think they were both in a hotel together and this was not physical.
because of her denying anything physical has ever happened, I still desperately want to believe her because I love her more than anything. I can't (honestly don't want to) believe she would actually do it
Gently, she did it. There is no question. She just happened to pull over to nap and check her phone at a hotel that he was checked into?
Absolutely not possible.
I'm so sorry.
I have simply tried to move on with my life, and I don't think she likes it.
Stay on that course. She is the one who has been a lying manipulator without remorse.
I have been here awhile. It's not often I advise to file D, but I feel it is the right thing to do.
The process takes time - time for her to pull her head out.
There is a lot of painfully accumulated wisdom here, I'm glad you found us.
I want to tell you some of what I've learned. It may sound foreign or counter-intuitive to you - especially given the devastating shock you're in...take what you need and leave the rest.
- you know enough - she's in a full-on A. STOP trying to reason with her, to get her to see the light, the error of her ways, and importantly, your pain. (Move on with your life) She is not interested, and it makes you seem weak.
- File. Since there are no kids THANK YOU JESUS! your conversations henceforth are limited to finances. ONLY. (She's already left)
- Cancel joint accounts. Separate finances. Where'd she get the money to bonk him in some hotel room? Nice little sting there isn't it? She's doing the nasty on your dime. Hard realization. Shut that down. (& don't take more than half - judges don't like that. Don't clean her out - just get free)
- Interview several lawyers - free consults, etc. Once she goes looking, guess what? She cannot use the ones you've talked to, so start at the top of the shark chain.
- Love yourself. You have been a true man. What she says about "your fault" is cheaterbuzz. White noise. Treat it as such. She is a lip-moving mannequin right now, in thrall to her lurrrve, possessed. By aliens, the devil, a 22y older daddy issue, or addictive neurochemicals. Ignore.
Takes strength - but I and 40,000 others will laugh with you someday. FTN = fuck that noise. (side advice - school your face to neutrality - you don't give a shit - give her no glimpse into your heart - protect it, your true self and your inner feelings, block that shit. She will hurt you with your goodness, FTN!)
- "you made changes" Good! We become better men and women through adversity. Make any future changes for you now. Get that? As 7yrs said - she killed the old M. If she ever wants to "talk about the M" - in cheaterspeak that means 'blame you for her choices' - you can shut that shitwhitenoise down immediately, thinking; "What M? You killed it." (remember to school your face when thinking that)
- For now, unless she comes at you with a snotbubblin, mascara-runnin begging apology, be thankful for the distance you have from this vampire of your soul.
With time and distance, and detaching from her, this may all make better sense. You may sing this from the rooftops to other posters someday.
You had nothing to do with her choice...
her choice to cheat. Put your foot down and demand the respect any true man should.
They just happened to be at the same hotel at the same time...in the same room...she's been at his home and his rental home several times for the last few months...
Lies and denials are pretty much standard for a WS. My H lied and denied to my face for two years when my gut instinct told me there was something going on. I was right. My H even swore on his own family's lives that he wasn't cheating... two years later he confessed.
Don't let her blame you for HER actions. She made the CHOICE to do this, it's all on her.
- Expose to everyone that matters,your and hers friends and family so that when later the marriage is over she cant say that she just found this "great" guy out of nowhere...(everyone should know that he is a POS and that he played a part in destroying your marriage,and this also should snap her to reality and shake her affair bubble...
- File for divorce
- Start 180 to help yourself recover physically and mentally a bit...
As for Mr.22 yo OM. How long do you think he is going to hang around ? Its only a matter of time till some 19 yo shakes her hard toned ass in his face and he goes running. Right now he is getting free sex on your dime. And even if he sticks around which is a remote chance. Let her live in his parents basement with him. She needs to experience the reality of what she caused. She needs to live with the consequences of her decisions. And by you keeping her secrets all your doing is enabling her A. Right now she is calling the shots, all due to your fear of her filing for D. I have some news for you bro, your M is already over. D is just a legality right now. Expose now before its too late. Your future and reputation depend in it. Your a young man with a bright future ahead of you. You don't need some cheating bitch dragging you down in your prime. Do what needs to be done kid. You will thank yourself in the months ahead for doing so. Good luck and welcome brother.
I have been practicing a 180 of sorts. It's hard at times because we've been living in the same house. Of course she has been in a separate bed room since August. I have offered her the opportunity to do things with me, but I have not begged. I just go on and enjoy myself. I don't call, text, or email. But, I'm not going to stoop to the same level as her and leave the house while she's there without saying a word.
I know I deserve better, but I can't figure out how to stop loving her. We have been together now for 11 years, and married 8-1/2 of those. At 29, that's a big chunk of your life.
I am pondering the exposure and the best way to do it. Does anyone have any experience or advice on that? Did it do anything to help your situation? I think it would make me feel better if I knew everyone knew the truth and not just the half truths she's telling them. I know this because I spoke to her Aunt yesterday (she called to invite me to Thanksgiving and to see how I'm doing). Her Aunt didn't have a clue about what was going on. She said that my wife was just unhappy in our marriage, that she had only been talking to this OM a little too much, but that she understood how I wouldn't want her talking to another man. I promptly filled in all the details, and she was floored. But, she still didn't want to admit it (just like me I guess).
How you do it ? Well you write a letter/email to friends and family,also facebook is a powerful tool for exposure...in the letter you you state that your marriage is affected with her infidelity and you name her AP in the letter and offer evidence to everyone who doesnt believe you ( I think that the veterans on this forum can help you to find examples of the exposure letter on this site)...You also expose the AP to people who matter in his life so that he also can get busy dealing with his actions and stop manipulating your WW...
You dont tell her that you are exposing her,you just do it and from now on you dont tell her anything about your plans because right now she is not your sweet wife,she is the enemy and you dont tell your enemy your strategy...
After exposure she will blame you for everything but it is normal because she is in a "affair fog" and the only thing after exposure you need to do is live the "180" and dont engage in pointless conversations with her because it will drain you mentally and thats not what you need right now...
Also one of the most important things is to not beg
or plead or do anything similar to this because the worst thing to do when dealing with a WS is to appear needy and desperate and to immediately offer
forgiveness and a chance for reconciliation...
So remember what to do:first expose then do the 180 that will allow you to focus on yourself and after you come out of some sort of your own "BS fog" and can see the situation with clarity then you can decide what you want to do R or D...
I hope it was helpful and Good Luck...
Dude...sorry you're here man...but welcome to SI..
Two things you need to remember as you eat this shit sandwich your cheatin' wife is feeding you...1. This is not your fault. 2. Cheaters will lie - count on it - expect it.
Let me get this straight, man....she said: "Reality, honey...don't tell anyone i'm layin' my BF and lyin' to you - OR ILL FILE FOR DIVORCE"???? Dude.....that is jacked!!! Not trying to hammer you....you need to file for D ASAP....i'd a done it yesterday....she needs a HUGE reality check....divorce papers are just that...you are NOT gonna "nice guy" her back - It will NOT happen...begging and crying will NOT work either...
Yeah...I know you don't want a D...but a D is a lot less painful than having a wife that shares her shit with some old fart (nothing against old farts - I am one myself)... sharing a wife blows - I have the movie and the t-shirt...but no matter what happens you will survive - with her or without her....first thing you need to do is do everything you can do to get her out of her affair...
You mentioned the BF is divorced....can you verify that? you get your information from your cheatin' wife? - see #2 above - cheaters lie. Verify that the OM is indeed divorced....don't believe anything she says....and half of what you see...
Filing for D will NOT drive them together...they are together now....D will show her your done...OM may like banging your wife - he certainly wont want to support her - very long....time for you to go Alpha Male on her...
Research the 180 - then do it!!!!- no..its not a secret plan for you to win your wife back - but sometimes that's the end result...its designed for you to detach emotionally from a toxic relationship. I have done the 180 with 2 marriages to cheatin' wives....one ended in divorce (my choice - she wanted to R and I didn't), another one went on to a pretty good R - after the FWW did all the right things...its all in my profile - feel free to look at it...
Take care, Bro....this aint your fault...
Keep us posted....
Either way she has already chosen the other man and its up to you to have some SELF RESPECT and move on. You need to expose her actions because keeping her secret will only make it easier for her to continue.
Instead of only answering to you (in denial husband still looking for hope). Now she'll answer to the whole family who wont buy her BS lies and will snap her out of her affair fantasy bubble while holding her accountable for her actions.
Whats better one spotlight or several spotlights shining down on you from all angles? Affairs thrive in secrecy.
[This message edited by MeanBean at 8:43 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]
It is ultimately up to you to decide what to do but I recommend you get a good lawyer on board and get papers drafted up. She is so wrapped up in her addiction to him and you that she is keeping you as Plan B. The lawyers I have are-------, they only represent men in divorce and are considered the best.
If you ever need anything please reach out to me as I can share what I have gone through too. Please keep you head up, this affair has nothing to do with you. Let me say that again, NOTHING to do with you. This is caused by your wife's weakness and brokeness of her personality. Find someone you can spend the holiday's with and try to make the best of it.
[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:35 PM, November 29th (Friday)]
She is the enemy. Treat her as such.
Me: fBH 46
Her: exWW 42
DDay: Nov 1, 2012
Divorced: September 17, 2013
I wish I knew of lawyers who where in my area who could advocate for me in the such a way....In about 13 years I will be 70..As does anybody in a D, I will need a lawyer(s) to protect me and my assets as if I were his/her mother..In my situation, a D will render me destitute unless I have the right lawyer and judge..
I am not a man but in this marriage I have been the protector of our family's wellbeing and I have always been THE MAIN and many times THE SOLE BREADWINNER..
I have enough pension and assets to support myself on my own but not enough to split or support another household on top of mine..
My un remorseful WH is pretending like he is a disabled cripple, but in reality he is not..
********************Alimony & Maintenance************************
In some instances a wife will ask for alimony, the court-ordered payment of money to your wife after the dissolution of marriage. If you made more money (especially if you were the primary breadwinner), there is a good chance your wife will seek alimony. The bigger the difference in earnings and the longer you were married, the larger the alimony payment will be.
Will Maintenance Be Awarded?
The general standard in most locations holds that maintenance can be awarded if the spouse lacks sufficient property, including marital property apportioned to her to provide for her reasonable needs and expenses, and is unable to support herself through appropriate employment.
Reducing Your Exposure to Maintenance:
If the divorce is not going to occur for some time, the husband should consider the following actions to reduce his exposure to alimony:
reduce the current household expenses;
LAWYERS.......if the parties have separated, establish a precedent of the wife supporting her own needs with little or no financial support from the husband;
ME.... ********(nagging my WH to find a job or he will risk me dropping him from my employer sponsored medical insurance when yearly re-enrollment comes up..Not gonna pay for a cheating man's medical..He was getting unemployment and was paying me back every month up until now)**************
help get the wife a job or more education;
maximize time with the children;
LAWYERS.......investigate marital misconduct;
ME ******(BTDT, I don't know if I can use it in court, but I have it to show our sons someday if I feel the need...and I will let WH know this during negotiations )*******
LAWYERS.....don't engage in marital misconduct;
ME******(I don't, lol)*******
LAWYERS.......allow a temporary disability to improve; and
if income is trending down, it would make sense in holding off the divorce to use a lower income in calculating maintenance.
ME.. *****(this is what I am presently trying to do)*****
How Is Alimony Determined?
Generally, there are designated factors that the court has to consider in determining whether or not to order a party to pay alimony.
Courts usually consider the following when determining maintenance, though, of course, these vary by state so be sure to consult with a local, licensed attorney:
length of the marriage;
age and health of the parties;
division of property;
education level of each party at the time of the marriage and at the time the action is commenced;
earning capacity of the parties;
feasibility that the party seeking alimony/maintenance can become self-supporting at a standard of living reasonably comparable to that enjoyed during the marriage and the time needed to achieve this goal;
tax consequences to the parties;
pre-marital and post-marital agreements;
contribution of one party to the education, training or increased earning power of the other;
and any other facts as the court may determine to be relevant.
Once the court determines that a party is entitled to alimony, the court then determines how much the person should receive per month and how long he or she should receive it.
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[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:07 PM, November 29th (Friday)]
They are good lawyers out there, just have to find them. ----- actually came on a recommendation from another family member that worked with them in the past.
All I am going to say on exposing is be very careful on how you phrase things so they can't be used against you. Do not use names or any type of descriptions or your personal feelings. All I did was post a link to a public website from a race they went to and let family and friends on Facebook piece it together. My WW then blocked me and all of the friends we shared on Facebook. She also doesn't want people to know because she would have to admit fault and take responsibility for destroying the marriage.