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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: what to make of answers like this?
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Probably shouldn't post this as I have gone round in circles enough here but I need to vent.

Think I got my answers as to why he did stuff and what he felt but then he comes out with confusing stuff like this.

How attracted to her were you?
a) zero physical attraction, it was purely a mental attraction he looked up to her for her attitude and wanted her to want him and give him lots of attention. Never wanted her physically.

Right, so why did you put your hand down her top to retrieve your lighter and why kiss her twice?

a) hand down top was bravado, look at me acting like a 'big man', look at me I can do what I want, trying to impress her so she would want him more and he would get more attention.
Kissed her cos she looked like she wanted to be kissed, first was a peck second was to try and find out how much she liked him for the ego boost of being wanted. He was testing how much she liked him cos he wanted to be wanted.

So you were acting the big man, acting single and trying to impress her by showing her you could do what you wanted. So I guess you did 'want' to kiss her for the sake of kissing her then, not just to find out how she felt?

a) only to find out if she wanted me, to impress her - look at me not being under the thumb, and to 'reward' his little doting girlfriend for making him feel so good.

So why would you choose kissing her as a way to find all this stuff out and if you had zero attraction why the hell would you want to kiss her? Why not find another way to get more attention, why turn it physical if you had zero physical attraction. If I had no physical interest in someone I would not want to kiss them or want them to want me.

a) cos she looked like she wanted to be kissed so he thought he would. she was attractive enough to kiss but that does not mean he fancied her. Just that he wasn't put off taking things further to get more attention. His admiration of her attitude (cocky, bolshy, look at me I am great)was enough for him to want her to want him but he never wanted her for herself just how good she made him feel.

And that's before things turned sexual. No wonder I am confused. after the kiss he knew he didn't want anything more physical. Yet after all he done he didn't feel he could say no so went through the motions. HE is conflict avoidant etc etc and I can see him doing this it's the stuff before makes no sense to me if he didn't fancy her. First he says zero attraction then he says he wasn't put off so didn't mind giving her a kiss but she wasn't attractive enough for him to want anymore than that.

SOOOOOOOO confused!!

[This message edited by olwen at 7:19 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did she send signals she wanted something physical?
Along with his lack of boundaries and desire for an ego boost, he was responding to whatever she wanted.

Has he ever been physical/sexual with someone he wasn't attracted to before?


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, he says he was just looking for a friend but she text around the clock and fawned all over him at work. He got hooked on the attention and ego boost and got caught up in it. Never could say no to her - he finds it almost impossible to say no to anyone.

She turned it physical by borrowing his lighter, putting it down her top and daring him to come and get it. He says he did it to call her bluff, look at me being a big man.

Then she was standing really close to him, face turned up and staring at his lips so he pecked her. Then later in the day he kissed her again cos the first didn't tell him anything. Although she was coming on to him she didn't kiss him back at all. He said he was really confused and that's why even though he felt nothing when he kissed her he didn't say we have to stop messing around cos he thought her not kissing back was his answer - she just wanted to be friends.

She had other plans though. She was in control the whole time but made H feel he was calling the shots. It was like a power game. She brushed off any talk about their relationship as we're just friends, we aren't doing anything wrong. So he felt stupid trying to stop it, then he got so caught up in it he was enjoying it too much to stop it.

He has slept with many women he did not find attractive. Most of his exes weren't his choice, they were just into him. If a woman liked him that was good enough. NO self confidence at all, never has had.

he definitely said yes to all she offered, never said no more than a weak attempt and then oh go on then. In the car he said he wanted nothing physical and thought they were going to talk about what had been going on and lay their cards on the table. Instead she lifted her skirt and invited him. He was too pathetic to say no. Too scared to lose her. Too scared of it causing problems. Too scared she would tell me if he didn't do what she wanted. Too scared to tell her how he really felt etc etc so he just went through the motions cos he thought he had made his bed and couldn't reject her. He also thought he had lost me and didn't want to lose her too.

After he hated himself and her. When he talks about it now he feels sick. He really didn't want things to go that far and I believe that. It fits with his personality.

He thought he was manipulating a younger woman with a crush on him. Wanted to find out if she wanted him but planned on ending it once he had got his validation. But she never gave it to him. Always kept him guessing so he got pulled in deeper and deeper trying to get it. He thought he could stop it at any time but it was her in charge all along. Even encouraging him to see all my bad points and paying him extra attention if he moaned about me until they both twisted his head so much that I became the wicked witch and she became a challenge for him. Could he get this younger woman who had umpteen guys on the go and half the office fancied but who seemed to want him.

The reason I am confused is he said he had zero physical attraction for her yet she was 'acceptable' so he wasn't put off kissing her. He was attracted to her cocky know it all attitude though. He wanted to be like her. All confident and in control. Lots of interest from the opposite sex. He felt she had life sussed. Knew what she was talking about and he sort of soaked up her personality until he became just like her and treated me like dirt. Putting her and the affair ahead of me and our marriage. He told himself it was just for him, she made him feel better. What's the harm I won't take it too far and Olwen will never find out. It's just a bit of fun, mucking about acting like a teenager.

He is repulsed by his attitude and actions now but I just don't get the whole he didn't fancy her, but she wasn't ugly and he was attracted to her outgoing personality.

I think I get stuck cos I tend to think in black and white. I.e if he kissed her he must fancy her. You don't kiss someone you don't fancy surely? Is finding her 'acceptable looking' the same as fancying her? Can you fancy someone just for their attitude?

It all confuses me cos I met my H, fancied him, wanted him, kissed him, started a relationship. I have never kissed anyone I didn't fancy since I was at school trying to get my first kiss.

He says the whole relationship was like that. acting 14 and kissing whoever wanted you just cos they were willing but not really connecting or caring just wanting to be wanted. Even the sex he says was like that. He didn't lose his virginity until he was 19 and by then he would have taken anyone just to have the experience. He says it was an awkward fumble, they barely managed sex and neither was into it. For her I guess it was the power of how far she had got him to go. And for him it was as he puts it after reading something on here - the price he felt he had to pay for all he done chasing the attention and leading her on.

I wish it was a black and white answer. I might understand more then. It all just gets rammed in a pile in my brain and I am trying to sort it out in a way I can process it.

[This message edited by olwen at 8:30 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No wonder I am confused.

You are confused because of many things associated with adultery...particularly your path away from it.

The initial shock of what has happened to your M as a result of your husbands direct and intentional actions. Your husbands fickle answer kept changing AFTER discovery. He did lots of trickle truthing to you. You have spent hundreds of hours pouring over what your marriage is, was, can be....but your perspective is so skewed you are lucky to remember to put gas in the car.

Adultery is crazy making stuff.--My old counselor said this repeatedly in IC sessions. It is crazy making for all involved. Your husbands and my wifes mind was warped by their choices.....warped in that they were lying to themselves first, then to us....having to keep up with the deception and lies plus having the chemicals released in their minds is too much stimulation to keep LOGIC functioning.

I will give you some advice from my IC sessions....try and embrace the idea that you simply never will find logic in the illogical.

Does it make sense for 2 middle aged people to have unprotected sex after just 2 months of knowing each other and NO past-sexual history discussion? Would we expect our daughters to engage in this type of activity when they hit puberty? Was their ANY chance our spouses relationship was ever going to be more then the sin it was? Is what they did worth what it cost them? Cost us? Cost, in our case, the 7 children affected?

There is no logic involved here Olwen. Believe me....I do what you do. I ask questions hoping to find some sane answer to the actions of the person we are married to during their time in affair land. What I have come up with is this.

My wife fucked another man because, at times, she did not operate honestly and in a loving manner within my M. She was selfish.

I did not operate honestly or in a loving manner, at times, within this same marriage. I was selfish.

My wife committed adultery. I did not.

Why?

That answer has yet to be fully explained to me in ways that I am satisfied with.

I get that my wife was not having all of her needs met inside her M to me. I also get that her FOO plays a large part in her inability to be vulnerable and bond with me....with anyone. Needs, desires and emotions are strongly viewed as weak traits in my wifes mind. Traits to be scared of, traits to deny you have, traits to look down on. What I don't get is the unprotected sex with a relative stranger, father of 5, meeting him after she dropped our girls off, and not having the will to resist that..,...and to actually RUN AFTER THAT AFTER my DD (while we were in counseling, her sister was accountability partner, she was still having sex with me) I didn't think my wife could do this.....she didn't think she could....and she did. I need to see substantial change in her to feel safe and trust again.

Can my wife change enough to be an actively engaged, supportive wife in her M to me? Can she earn my trust back?

I believe so. I have faith and hope she can.


Can I do the same? Yes, I have faith and hope I can overcome my FOO programing. I have forgiven her, but trust is not there yet.

I just put a simple post out there.....it is this.


How do you find the right person to marry? BE A RIGHT PERSON TO MARRY!

My wife and I are struggling. The pain is tremendous, the sadness is perpetual....both are emotions, both will change.

Hang in their Olwen....you are still new to this journey. You, like many of us, started at a disadvantage due to changing admissions from our spouses and the dreadful trickle trothing. It angers me still to think my wife thought she knew what was best for me, what I could and could not handle. I use this for motivation to express my feelings as fully as I can to my wife.....which goes against my abandonment fear programing...but I am doing this. I do this because the fear of having the CURRENT M I have for a lifetime is greater then not having one at all.


God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:31 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3775 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Blake, just want to check I got the meaning of your post right.

Do you mean I should stop trying to make sense of the illogical actions and thoughts waywards have when in their affair? I am trying I just get stuck on certain things all the time and it eats at me.

I suppose the main things are:

1) he chose to risk our marriage and family for some silly woman who paid him some attention (whether he fancied her or not)

2) he lied to himself and to me to excuse what he was doing and to stop me finding out all they did.

3) he chose to turn to another woman when he was depressed, instead of me.

4) he didn't come to me first to give me a chance to make the changes I needed to make to help our M

5) he has completely realised the devastation his actions have caused and is doing all in his power to R. He is as devastated as I am. He is disgusted with himself.

6) I know what they did and when, in great detail but it doesn't look like I am going to get a simple answer regarding his feelings and thoughts but then people aren't simple are they? Things are complex but I have a habit of trying to boil things down to statements of fact i.e - he kissed her cos he fancied her, when the truth seems to be more complex. Or maybe not, he kissed her cos he was weak, needy and selfish.

I just wish he could say.. I did this cos of this. I did that cos of that.

Not jumbled stuff like he was attracted to her attitude not her looks but her looks didn't put him off etc etc.

It's probably me dragging this on cos I want simple answers so I can run them round my brain and process them. I want to move forward. I want the questions answered.

I don't know why cos the outcome won't change. We will still R regardless.

I suppose my main reason is say for example he did fancy her and things were that simple and why he did all he did then fine. But if that is the real reason and he is telling me all this other stuff so I won't know he fancied her then it's like he is still keeping something from me.

I guess I will never know and need to work on fixing me and my part in our M and he needs to work on him and his part of the M - read that somewhere.

[This message edited by olwen at 8:56 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
Gotmegood
♀ Member
Member # 41407
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blake-
Though the hurts are too numerous to list for me today, I did want to give a big *Me Too* to something you said. Sex with a stranger, in this case a prostitute for gods sake, and no thoughts to the health implications.....is astounding to me. This behavior from a man who washes his hands constantly, showers daily, is extra careful in the kitchen when working w/ uncooked foods, wears a seatbelt, etc, etc.
WH put his penis into the mouth of a prostitute, where hundreds of penises have been; others maybe even that very day. A tongue that has been in rectums probably. Was he so divorced from reality? Had he *lost his mind*? I believe that question will be one that haunts me forever.


Me: faithful wife 62.
Him: WH 64 , prostitute 20 yr old
DDay: 8-13-2013
Status: boinging up and down like a yo-yo

Posts: 472 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Florida
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are so confused..you're turning yourself inside out,trying to make sense out of what he is saying.

Stop.

If you accept that he was attracted to her, then all that confusion(most of it) will disappear..then the two of you can start dealing with reality.

You are so hung up on this,because you feel he is not being honest with you..and I believe he isn't being honest with himself either.

If he would admit that he was attracted to her,at that time, I truly believe you would feel relieved. Yes,it will hurt. But it would stop all those thoughts and questions that are eating at you.

He was attracted to her enough that he wanted to kiss her..twice.

I think this is bothering you because you know he is lying.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7503 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((olwen)))

Your list is spot on. Your desire to ask more questions is part of this process...but, you are right, the facts wont change.

My wife was not physically attracted to her AP initially...she liked his attitude too. The relationship with HIM was EASY. Period. The same holds true for your husband and his AP...and holds true for many WS and AP....it is an EASY choice. Not to spend too much time on your husbands AP...but she is actively choosing to make EASY choices, having many men provide for each of her needs. My wifes AP is onto another woman....he is actively choosing to make EASY choices a part of his lifes journey as well.

OUR SPOUSES ARE NO LONGER MAKING EASY CHOICES.

That is a big fact to grasp and own. Unfortunately, this is HARD....which is why they didn't do it in the first place. It is why I didn't do it in the first place. This takes courage and commitment. What our spouses have that we don't is the fact that we did not choose adultery. We are left wondering how someone we loved (admittedly not perfectly) could choose such a painful act. Since we cant answer this completely we are left wondering just how much HARD work they are willing to do before the next EASY AP tempts them to repeat this dreadful action. That, I believe, is why a BS is so full of questions....we want to know all the factors in play that caused adultery to be invited into our M and families. We want to know this so we can observe if the needed changes are being made by a fWS to break this cycle.

Adultery is not a singular mistake....it is a fruit of life long patterns, many times originating in childhood, generally triggered by a life altering event. (middle age, death in the family, career failure, health scare).

Read that in a book....not blakesteele wisdom.

Thought I would mention it...might help you understand that the real questions that lead to real intimacy and trust center around the patterns of dealing with life rather than those specific to adultery.

BUT, the trauma that is adultery has to be processed before you can really get into these longer, deeper discussions.

Do you have the book....How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair? If not, get it....have husband read it and apply what is firmly advised in this quick, how-to book. My wife did many of the items in it....but not all. I would recommend he do ALL of them....regardless of if he thinks it will help or not.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 10:05 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3775 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he chose to risk our marriage and family for some silly woman who paid him some attention (whether he fancied her or not)

I can't speak for him, but for my H, he was not choosing between risking our marriage and keeping our marriage safe. He did not think about me and our marriage--he compartmentalized us.

He was choosing between doing what this woman wanted and not doing what she wanted. The only consequences he considered were the consequences of not going along with what she wanted.

It doesn't look like I am going to get a simple answer regarding his feelings and thoughts but then people aren't simple are they?

I think people are complex. Emotions are messy. For my H, sex was not necessarily about desire for the other person. It wasn't even necessarily sexual.

I would say that I am emotionally healthy with solid self-worth. But there were times when I was very unsure of myself, and I used to be much more of a people pleaser. I kissed guys that I wasn't attracted to because they wanted it, because I wanted to feel attractive, because I got myself into the situation and that's the direction things were going in . . .

Take two people with poor boundaries, low self-esteem and neediness. Put them together alone. It doesn't matter whether they fancy each other or not. They will most likely use each other to try to get the feelings they think they need


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
GotMyLifeBck2013
♂ Member
Member # 40531
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Easiest one of the day.

I didnt really want to stick my penis in her she slipped a banana peel and fell on it.

He pursued her. He kissed her. He slept with her. Dont try to complicate this too much. He is a cheater. He did it because he wanted to and thought he would get away with it. Hes dragging you into his drama. Stick to the facts. He cheated and lied, all this horsecrap he is feeding you is just that, horsecrap. Make him own it or make him leave.


I define me! I don't just survive, I thrive!!

Me: fBH 46
Her: exWW 42
DDay: Nov 1, 2012
Divorced: September 17, 2013


Posts: 289 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Ohio
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Take two people with poor boundaries, low self-esteem and neediness. Put them together alone. It doesn't matter whether they fancy each other or not. They will most likely use each other to try to get the feelings they think they need

yes.

He pursued her. He kissed her. He slept with her. Dont try to complicate this too much. He is a cheater. He did it because he wanted to and thought he would get away with it. Hes dragging you into his drama. Stick to the facts. He cheated and lied, all this horsecrap he is feeding you is just that, horsecrap. Make him own it or make him leave.

Gotmylifeback2013 is right....Adultery really is a simple sin. The emotions surrounding it complicate it, but the reality of what adultery is.....is simple.

I almost wonder if our fWS use trickle truth in TWO ways. First, the obvious trying to protect the BS and keep their fantasy of control in place. Second....perhaps it is a way for our FWS to make it appear their adultery was different, more special, so deep that it simply defies explanation? Kind of like Well, just look at all these questions from my BS...adultery was bad, but it must be so much more than what the books say it is...what I had must have been different....I mean, just look how fascinated my BS is with it!

That second point is up for debate...just a thought I had surrounding how important my wifes relationship with her AP was while she was engaged in it and for the couple of months after he dumped her.....


How many times does a WS think what they have in their affair is so much more than it is? So much more deep and meaningful then it turns out to be? The whole Did I marry the wrong person?!? debate in their minds. It is because the people engaged in it are WANTING it to be more than it is....so it becomes more than it is. The whole What is Percieved is Achieved...syndrome.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3775 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all,

You have really helped talk me down from spinning round in circles.

Yeah, he could be lying but just as much indicates he is not. My brain says yeah right of course he fancied her but some of the things he says with disgust in his eyes I am sure are true.

One point he continually argues is he hated how she dressed at work, I said why were you jealous she was flashing all for anyone to see and he replied adamantly, Olwen she was seeing half a dozen other guys, I was never jealous cos I only used her for attention and validation. He states her low cut tops put him off cos he didn't see her in a sexual way. He found it inappropriate in the workplace and suggested to his boss they sort out a uniform of sorts, t-shirt or sweater. He didn't want her cleavage waved in his face all day. Even when he put his hand down her top he turned his face away and pulled the top forward and tried not to touch her breasts. He has shown me how he did it and he turned his hand so the back of it would hit any skin, not the front. That's a pretty weird thing to say if you do fancy someone. Also the fact he told me, I would never have known she dressed like that so he had no need to tell me. He used it as an example of how he didn't lust after her.

She is also not his type.IRL He likes brunettes like me. all the celebs he likes vary from Christina ricci (a younger me) to Kelly Brook and Dawn French (he loves her!). Not a boyish blonde with a wonderbra in sight. He likes quirky, she looks like someone's maiden aunt a plain jane. She actually looks about 5 years older than me but she is 6 years younger. He loves my soft skin, hers is so dry it looks painful. I am not meaning to pick her apart, she is not unattractive but she does have a lot of qualities that show H would not have bothered with her in other circumstances. She is the opposite of me in looks and personality. The opposite personality would have had a lot to do with it.

I am sensible, caring, introverted. I care about my home and my family. I am soft and loving. She on the other hand drummed this into his head....Do what you want when you want, you deserve it. You don't want to be tied down you want to have some fun. You should be more like me, look after number 1 etc etc you get the picture. I guess at the time the opposite of me was more appealing.

anyway, I am waffling. Please excuse my long posts today, just needed to get this stuff out o my head and onto here.

The main points are it's over, he dropped her not me, he is devastated to have hurt me and is bending over backwards to prove his love to me and that I can start to try and trust him again soon. Nothing is too much trouble.

I really do love this new husband I have so it's time to stop nit picking and carry on with rebuilding.

Thanks guys for setting my head back on whether he fancied her or not.

my SI family are wonderful people.

He also says he stupidly felt safe crossing boundaries with her cos she had boyfriends and he thought him being married meant they could mess around without it going too far. HE really didn't know her at all!

So yeah, I am going to take all your advice on board. He has agreed the compromise 'she was attractive enough to kiss without putting me off'. It sits better with me than zero physical attraction. I think he was trying to spare my already shattered self esteem over something so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think in most cases the BS does a certain amount of projecting what they think was happening. At the same time the WS does a certain amount of minimizing what happened. And the truth lies somewhere in between.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2600 | Registered: Aug 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cool add Chico...thanks.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3775 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
mindbody
♀ Member
Member # 27941
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

olwen,

Initially your H may not have been physically attracted to OW at all, just like my WSO. I do support those who believe in attraction by proximity and opportunity. The other sense of hearing praise, adoration, adulation and support can begin to change one's perception of another. Add the occasional touch along with flirting to the mix. In the case of co-workers, the daily positive interaction, working together and being successful, and then sharing too much personal information can drastically change even the original visual opinion of someone.

WSO said he began telling himself he must really love her because he had been so turned off by her originally, to be attracted to her now must mean it's love.

And yes, WSO had sex with other women, before we were a couple, that he did not consider attractive. When he thinks about the PA with OW now, in his own words "I was horny." I know from experience now that looks can be deceiving in infidelity. I guess it really did not matter to your H when he made the decision to overlook OW's unattractiveness. Maybe she became more appealing for other reasons rather than her looks.


Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2010
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, I missed a few posts when I was writing that.

First I would like to say he does own what he did. When I talk about it - and it's me analysing every aspect not him - he will say 'look Olwen, I cheated, plain and simple. My excuses, reasons and thoughts were so messed up even I can't understand why I did what I did apart from being a selfish, stupid, twisted f**k that would do anything for a bit of attention, I was that screwed up!'

He points out that he crossed all his own boundaries for what he had with her and whether he fancied her or not is not the point. The point is the devastation he has caused.

It's ME causing the drama. Wanting to understand his every thought and feeling. He was so mixed up that his answers are mixed up. I need to accept that.

Yes, he did it cos he wanted to, he made every choice along the way, he listened to her crap, he listened to his own crap and set me to the side to pick back up later when he had had his fun.

I guess that's all I need to know really. And the fact he is desperate to R.

Blake he did read how to help your spouse heal, as did I and he has followed it to the letter - once he made the final confession of sex that is. Well, as much as I can remember of it anyway, I must re read.

The other thing that matters to me is how easily he dropped her. Hoe relieved he was.He wanted it to end but was scared she would tell me if he upset her by doing that. He hoped she would end it when he cooled off on her. There was nothing more physical after that one night but the EA did continue. Stupidly he brought her here 'as a friend' to meet me hoping that would make her back off. It did but it was such a bad way to end things. Of course I realised seeing how cold he was to her and how doting she was on him that something had happened.

She ended it the next working day and he stopped telling me nothing had gone on immediately. he admitted to an EA and said he was so relieved it was over even if I did find out. But he was hiding the kisses and the sex so was not totally back to me cos he was protecting his dirty little secret. Once he admitted to it all, he was back 100% and has never wavered in that.

It's the future and the facts I need to focus on not the excuses and minimising (if he is) nor how he felt. None of it is real anyway at the end of the day. It's all affair fantasy land and he is glad to be out of it.


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes I would agree with that Chico. HIs varying answers in the past indicate that he was more meh about her than zero attraction.

I think I need to accept he is not going to spit out what I believe to be true cos he doesn't believe it. I think some of it is definitely what he told himself. But not all, he is vague on some questions and I think they are the ones he is not being honest with even himself about. The others are point blank NO's with absolute conviction.

But I also agree that an emotional, attention seeking relationship could end in sex without any great physical attraction.

Believe me the thought he became obsessed with how she made him feel is bad enough. And he openly admits to that.

Blake - he did say she was the EASY option. Ready made admirer he didn't have to make any effort she was just there waiting for him, encouraging him to take her up on her offer. It was easier to turn to miss happy go lucky than face his problems at home. He said she was a distraction, an add on, an ego boost.

The point is I will never know for sure, all I know for sure is the huge changes I am seeing in him. They're what matters I think.

[This message edited by olwen at 10:53 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
olwen
♀ Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sailorgirl - I think you hit the nail on the head with this
Take two people with poor boundaries, low self-esteem and neediness. Put them together alone. It doesn't matter whether they fancy each other or not. They will most likely use each other to try to get the feelings they think they need

Blake - he is definitely choosing the hard road now.

He has already realised where his need for external validation comes from (neglect as a child and rejection as a young man) where his conflict avoidance comes from (emotionally abusive home) he has also realised he becomes a different person when around women who flirt with him - he always wonders do they REALLY like him??? Then crosses boundaries to find out. He says he became this arrogant a**hole when he felt like this.

He hates this side of himself now and it really does look like this affair showing him what is at the end of that attention seeking road is just not worth it. He is terrified of losing me and says he really 'sees' me now and he had everything he needed under his nose but was too busy taking me for granted to see it til his stupid actions nearly destroyed what we had.

If I wasn't seeing such huge changes in him I would not still be in this marriage. I feel the future is bright if I can just stop getting hung up on the same few things.

[This message edited by olwen at 10:59 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 779 | Registered: Jul 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Olwen,

I have to keep "getting hung up on the same few things". Over and over. Each time we talk it through, I learn something that helps me get closer to understanding. Then, I read and research (mostly about children of dysfunctional families), and let the info sink in. The next time I get hung up on the issue, it's easier to get unstuck.

I am driven to understand the A. Not because I am obsessed with it or drumming up drama, but because I want to know my H inside out. What he did during the A gives me insight into a deep part of him that he hid from me. If I don't understand what happened yet, it means I don't really fully know him yet.

For me, getting hung up is a sign that he needs to know himself better, and then he'll be able to explain his whys better. This is a win-win. He's figuring out how he's broken and how to heal, I'm getting closer to him and feeling more trust for the future.

I don't think getting "hung up" stands in the way of a bright future. Working through the hang ups is part of getting there.

[This message edited by sailorgirl at 12:27 AM, December 1st (Sunday)]


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 4:22 AM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Olwen.

I'm going through the same thing right now. I can go weeks at a time with some level of acceptance that I will never get the answers to things like, what did you tell yourself at that moment that made it ok for you to ask another woman out? What made you stop at 4 dates? How could you risk your marriage for someone you have no feelings for etc.

It's like someone flips a switch and my need to know becomes an obsession again. His vague answers just make me angry. He always falls back to "what i did was wrong. I'm sorry". 8 months later I'm still asking the same questions over and over. I know the details of the EA...I want to know his thought process. I actually lay in bed at night wishing I didn't love him so much...wishing I could hate him. It would be so much easier to hate him. How dysfunctional is that?

How long did it take for your husband to open up and start answering your questions? Do you go back and forth with accepting his answers and not?


Posts: 680 | Registered: Jul 2013
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