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User Topic: I want to believe - would you?
browneyesbelieve
♀ New Member
Member # 41469
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My DDay was about 3 weeks ago. My WH and I have agreed to explore if we feel we can save our marriage and have agreed not to make any major decision until after the holidays (we have two small girls to consider).

Dday was 11/9/13. He promised to cease contact.
On 11/24, Found email from him to her dated 11/17 saying he knows he's not supposed to be communicating with her and then some general info about a city she had mentioned to him- nothing relational. Also found response from her on 11/19 with bizarre commentary about giving her spouse a massage and saying my WH absence weighed heavy on her giant bazookas (what a skank) and to take her, she's his forever. It does not appear he responded. I confronted him, we talked a lot and he promised again to cease contact.

on 11/25, she tried to follow me on Twitter. I showed him her profile, asked if it was her and we both thought it weird. He called me on 11/26 to tell me he texted her to ask about the follow, she denied and he told her, in stronger language (his description), that he would have no further contact with her because he had committed to me to try and make this work. She told him to tell me I had "won". I asked him if he felt like a prize to be won, he said no. I told him I didn't view him as a prize, but a partner and that seemed to really hit home with him.

Since then, he is no longer constantly on his phone and we've had many conversations about what he feels drove him to this (I want and need him to feel safe talking to me). He said it was "fun" and when I told him that because he has no responsibilities with her that he has with me (2 kids, 2 houses, family drama, bills, etc) of course it's "fun" and that I couldn't compete with that because I already was the full package and fun is only part of it. Surprisingly, he conceded that was true.

He has shared the following items I'm seeing as key to a strong and successful R:

1. he is in shock that I have been so calm and willing to forgive if he is willing to recommit and work on our marriage. I have to say, I shocked myself there, too. He admitted he wanted to get caught and thought that I would divorce him and that's what he thought he wanted. Then, he was grateful that I didn't.

2. that he felt he could not continue the A even if I hadn't found out because he felt guilty.

3. I had asked him to remove all pics and emails of her and he said he would, but not to hound him (he tends to be rebellious whenever I demand things in general). On Thanksgiving, I checked his phone to see if there had been communication (found no new ones). He asked me why I was looking and it would ruin the day. I told him fear and distrust. That I needed to know if he was keeping his word. Told him it was painful that he was keeping the messages. I think he was keeping them to show me he wasn't sure yet if he wanted to keep the marriage.

4. I asked him point blank one night, as "the hardest question of my life", and would he rather be with her than me? Without hesitation, he said no.

5. We've had a couple of "dates" and we touch on the subject a little, but try not to let it overtake our time. On our last date this past Sunday, he mentioned that he meant to wear his ring but forgot it (he hasn't worn it in over a year). He asked where mine were and I told him I would not wear them again until HE put them back on my finger and tells me he wants nothing more than to be my husband and my lifelong partner. He asked me why I thought I wanted him now and not before. I told him we had 6 rough years when he wasn't really working and I was carrying everything. Over the past year, he's gotten a great job he loves, became more of a real partner and that I thought we had been on the road to good things. His response was a tight hug and then, throughout the day, he reached for my hand or my leg and put his arm around me several times. (I know she checks his FB page so you can bet all the smiling pics of our dates are posted! - gratefully, he's never been FBfriends with her).

6. Sunday night, after I spoke wit my BFF, he asked me what she said (he knows she's very protective of me). I told him she wanted a dated pic of us to make sure he was still alive (she, too, thought I've been way to calm and thought I might have offed him LOL). We both got a laugh from that. I told him she felt I wasn't being demanding enough with him keeping the emails and pics and that I felt that even if he deleted, it didn't keep him from communicating if he chose to. He replied that he has not communicated and that while I was on the phone, he had deleted most of the emails, all the pics and that he was was going to delete the email account entirely from his phone. I asked him if he would shut it down completely so there could be no contact and he said that was a good idea.

Now, for my question. Do I believe his claimed actions? Do I press to see for myself? We've already discussed that if we decide to really work on this, we will share all pw's and accounts going forward. We seem to be making progress and I don't want to push too much too fast.

On a possibly related note, he has been having libido issues which he claims date back to the spring (several months before the A and I had noticed them too, but didn't mention) He's very concerned and we made him a dr appt to look into that and also to be tested for STDs (told him he needed to since he knew his OW has had multiple partners). He is completely moved that I am patient and don't get frustrated with him, nor do I give up . I desperately want to ask if he had the issues with her too. When I joke that maybe it's just me, he tells me absolutely not, that its happened even when he's taken care of himself (i want to believe that's his way of saying it did happen with her too)

Appreciate the group's thoughts and reality check so that I'm not hearing just what I want... and sorry for the long post. Thanks!


Posts: 10 | Registered: Nov 2013
annb
♀ Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

browneyesbelieve, your D-Day is VERY recent. Your husband had contact with her no less than two weeks ago.

Promises don't cut it when it comes to rebuilding a marriage...it's all about actions.

He may very well be telling the truth, but understand that cheaters lie. He contacted her on 11/26 after NC was supposed to be established. Yes, he told you, but NC=NC.

I personally think you are still in shock (I was for months) until the reality of my WH's actions began to set in....processing the truth is very difficult emotionally.

Proceed with promise but with extreme caution. It takes YEARS to rebuild trust, and I can guarantee you that the "anger" stage will more than likely hit you like a ton of bricks. I was also very calm in the beginning, but wow, did that change when the emotional roller coaster left the station.

IMO, it sounds as though you are fearful to hold him accountable for his choice to cheat.

(((Hugs))))

[This message edited by annb at 10:35 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 7569 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
browneyesbelieve
♀ New Member
Member # 41469
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks annb!

that's why i posted. I worry that i'm letting him off too easily and SI is my reality check :)

it's so new that I don't know which way is up or down, right or left. I don't want to be played the fool again and I worry that I've taken too much of the responsibility myself (I was NOT a good partner for 6 years, but that is NO excuse for what he did - divorce would have been the correct action)

I'm so grateful for all of you. thanks!


Posts: 10 | Registered: Nov 2013
NeverAgain2013
♀ Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I'm sure sorry you find yourself here, Browneyesbelieve.

I think one of the biggest red flags waving around is HIS control over how you try to heal. I think he needs to stop making this all about him and what he needs and what ticks HIM off and come down off his high horse. He's in no position to tell you how to act or how to feel or what to think.

You need to find your voice and tell him this is NOT about him anymore. I know cheaters think the whole friggen world revolves around them and their needs, so I guess it's a far fall from grace for them when reality slaps them in the face and it's no longer all about them 24/7.

I feel bad because I think you're doing a lot of rugsweeping and quick forgiving, alot of appeasing to keep him happy, and you're allowing him to decide what you need and what you don't need in order to reconcile. That's not up to him. And too bad if he gets rebellious or short-tempered or whines that you'll 'ruin the day' because you check his phone or email. Too damned bad, so very very sad - for HIM. Right now, your need for a little validation is 1,000 times more important than his selfish little tantrums.

Seriously? He needs to be kissing your FEET that you haven't thrown him out the door on his ass, not dictating how you're supposed to act, how you're supposed to feel, and what you're supposed to do.

That's NOT his place.

He also ought to be thanking you for supporting him for 6 years while he basically did nothing and felt very little responsibility for the family he helped create.

And your thanks for that was this?

Seriously BrownEyes, you need to start standing up for yourself. He's not remorseful at ALL. He just wants you to shut up, sweep his crap under the rug, and play the happy little wife while adoring him with your big brown puppy eyes.

And if you end up doing that, the resentment is going to seethe inside of you until it erupts.

Choose your OWN path to healing. NOT HIS.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1766 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. Ok, the emails go, now. The account goes, now. He sends a NC letter, and if he breaks it, HE GOES, NOW.

Sweetie, why are you letting him keep mementos? You have the right to have a husband that doesn't reread emails from his girlfriend to remember the good times. Why aren't you putting your foot down? He has a tendency to be rebellious?

You're not taking this seriously, and he is controlling this. You were cheated on. Say this out loud - my husband has a girlfriend. Say it again and again, until you realize that what has happened is wrong, and that this is now about you, not him, and that if he doesn't realize that, then you can find a great divorce attorney that will make him understand.

He wouldn't continue because he felt guilty? OMG, sure. But he doesn't feel guilty about keeping the emails and pictures of his girlfriend. He's lying, about a lot of things.

Sorry - I know you want to be nice and for this to be a very civil understanding, but it needs to be dealt with. Grab your bitch boots and start dealing with it!


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
KeepCalm_CarryOn
♀ Member
Member # 33374
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he said he would, but not to hound him (he tends to be rebellious whenever I demand things in general)

This bothers me. A lot. He is in no position to make these kinds of requests (or demands). He lost that right when he decided to cheat. He's acting like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you want to take his toys away, and gently, you're letting him get away with it. Tell him he can keep the mementos, or you. How does it make YOU feel that he's keeping this stuff, isn't that more important? He should be bending over backwards.

I agree with the others, proceed with extreme caution, trust but verify. If your gut feels off, there's probably a reason. It's still early so it's not a bad thing to keep your guard up.


You are not dealing with rational people or situations. Normal thought processes won't work...story of my life.

Me- BW, 28
Him- fWh, 34
Mostly R'd, minus a few scars...bought a house and got a puppy...And baby makes 3! She arrived August


Posts: 2024 | Registered: Sep 2011
lost_in_toronto
♀ Member
Member # 25395
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1. he is in shock that I have been so calm and willing to forgive if he is willing to recommit and work on our marriage. I have to say, I shocked myself there, too. He admitted he wanted to get caught and thought that I would divorce him and that's what he thought he wanted. Then, he was grateful that I didn't.

This describes my behaviour the first few months after dday well. I was so nice and accommodating and loving and understanding. I was amazed at how well I kept my anger in check.

Looking back, I was scared to rock the boat. I didn't want him to choose her. His cheating had really shaken my sense of self worth and I was terrified of being alone. If the man who had loved me for nine years no longer thought I was with loving, maybe I wasn't.

I don't want to conflate our situations, but I hear some of this in your post. You are trying to preserve your family's stability. You may not be blaming yourself for the A, but you are certainly mitigating his betrayal by repeatedly calling yourself a bad partner. And you are excusing his continued lack if respect with 'he doesn't like to be pushed.'

And you know what - I think all of that is okay for now. Just be aware of your self talk right now, and expect to get really angry at some point. For me, that was when I became tired of all his lies and stopped caring if he chose me and started wondering if I chose him.

Whether you can believe him - well, maybe or maybe not. Honestly, only time will tell. Good luck.

[This message edited by lost_in_toronto at 11:34 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]


Me: BS/39
Him: WS/37
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 14 years.
Reconciled.

Posts: 1670 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: not toronto anymore
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to the club no one ever planned to join.

You will find tons of support here, but you will as you already have that many of us don't bullshit around, and give you rainbows and happiness when we see the hurricane coming.

Your H has had an A. My guess is he is still at a minimum having an EA. YOU have not obtained the first two vital things from him that you need to really start to head down that long road of R.
1. Transparency, and I don't mean, can I check your phone, please don't be mad at me, but I mean, him handing you his phone, and computer, and giving you a complete list of his emails and their passwords. I mean snooping through his vehicle, his wallet, and his "private" things without fear of rebellion, anger, or retribution. When he can do this, and you do it, snoop,check up on, whatever else he wants to call it, and find nothing then you can start to consider a real R.
2. Establishing NC, this should be done in a very simple up front manner, and you should be in on all the communication. NC should be sent in my opinion via email with and accepted reciept thingy. It should state I am going to work on saving my marriage, and learning how to give my wife the respect, love and honor she deserves. In that vein do not contact me ever again.
Then you need to look for a second/burn phone that he is using to stay in contact with, and be up his ass with it.

When you get these two things accomplished then you can seriously work to R. It's great that you are reconnecting, but he doesn't get to rule R. That's all you, you get to make up the rules, and if it isn't working you get to make new ones, or change old ones.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE ever saved their M and got it back to happy and healthy by being nice. It's us BS's that got tough, and really did not allow our WS's to get away with anything, and if he doesn't get that, and throws a fit, then do you really want him? You want a spouse you have to share? You want a spouse that minimizes your pain, and feelings? Fine then nice him back, but count on repeated/continued affairs.

It is quite overwhleming in the early days and to find your strength can be a difficult thing, but without out, he will not tow the line so to speak. He will not do what he needs to, to heal himself and your M.

His libido issues btw, are probably all related to his guilt. As he deals with it they will get better. If he doesn't then he may need the little blue pill for a long time to come. Remember the strongest sexual organ is the mind and if it isn't healthy then your sex life won't be either.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8598 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
browneyesbelieve
♀ New Member
Member # 41469
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! You all have made some really great points and it validated my concern that I've been too easy, so thank you!

I AM trying to maintain our family stability (especially with the holidays). I know we both need to decide what we want to do with our marriage. Part of me wants it, part of me wonders if I can ever trust again and if I can't, this is a waste of time.

That's why his actions are going to be so critical and to make sure that what I've experienced isn't lip service. Thanks for bringing my feet back to earth.


Posts: 10 | Registered: Nov 2013
sodamnlost
♀ Member
Member # 37190
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I desperately want to ask if he had the issues with her too. When I joke that maybe it's just me, he tells me absolutely not, that its happened even when he's taken care of himself (i want to believe that's his way of saying it did happen with her too)

This one gets me right between the eyes :-( WH never had this issue with AP are RARELY had it with me before SHE came into his world. Literally DAYS after he first met/had sex with her, his ED made an appearance. It returned after Dday. My head knows it is NOT because he doesn't find me attractive or thinks sex is boring with me - my heart doesn't see it that way though. Our MC explained it like this - for my WH at least, it seems to creep up when he feels really vulnerable. Not something he actually had with OW. Much like their A's - ED issues are generally not about the person they are with. I know that doesn't help your heart in that moment when it happens and for that pain - I am sorry. It sucks.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it's not a fluffy pink unicorn squirting liquid rainbows, complete with pots of gold out of it's ass.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: Nowhere pretty
cantgetup
♀ Member
Member # 36146
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are aspects of what he is saying and doing that are off. You need to proceed with extreme caution. Eyes wide open. You will see what you need to see with time. In the meantime don't make any big decisions on anything. Take your time

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2012
Secrets Kept
♀ Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So sorry but I am with "cantgetup's" above post.
Something is just off.

For one.....about not answering the ED question with OW head-on. I mean really....why skip around the question & answer "it happens even when I take care of myself"?!?! Why didn't he just give you a yes or no? My guess would be because he didn't have the ED problem with OW but didn't want to hurt you more so skirted around the answer. By answering the way he did, he changed the context of the question without having to give a definitive, direct response.

Also, your Dday was on 11/9 but on Thanksgiving, 11/28, almost 3 weeks later, the texts, pics, & msgs were still not deleted from his phone????


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 210 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
BeyondBrokenInTN
♀ Member
Member # 41507
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Browneyes,
You really need to be more aggressive and demanding of your WH. Who cares if he gets mad?!! I think he will respect you MORE if you take a stand and lay down the law. Tell him what is acceptable to you and what isn't. Be STRONG, I know you are staying calm, polite, understanding, etc, that's all fine and good but you can be all those things and still demand respect and lay down some boundaries!! Here is a letter I just sent my WBF:
Here are a few conditions to our reconcile: (these are deal breakers for me) I find out you do any of the following and I'm done. If you can't agree then I am done.

• No Contact w/ her. Absolutely NONE - EVER - PERIOD.
• No more "just friends" of the opposite sex.
• No more deleting messages on your phone.
• No more cleared browser histories on phone, iPads or computer.
• Complete transparency in ALL things. I want a written list of all accounts with passwords.
• Start Couples counseling and attend church when you are home on Sundays.


Also,
• Meet each others emotional needs. Always have the conversation when they are not being met.
• Contact about comings and goings at all times.
• Do one thing special for each other every single month.
• Don’t avoid conflict, engage in honest communication around conflict areas as they come up, so we can work on it. Better than letting it build up.
• I love you! Work as a TEAM.

You are giving him all the control, IMO. There is NO reason on this earth for him to have kept any emails from/to her. Until he COMPLETELY removes her from his life, he can't begin to HONESTLY reconcile with you. Good luck. Hugs.


Me: BGF 38F
Him: WBF 33M
Together for 5.9 years (4/5/08)
PA - Oct. 16, 17, 18, 2013 (business training out of state)
EA - Oct. 14 - Nov. 22, 2013 (same Woman)
D-DAY ~ Nov 22, 2013 (I found emails & confronted).
Working toward Reconciliation

Posts: 61 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Tennessee
emotionalgirl
♀ Member
Member # 40184
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi browneyes....I might get yelled at over this, but I think it needs to be said. You have 2 young daughters who you want to be able to enjoy the holiday. Everyone here makes very good points and I actually agree with ALL of them! You need to get tough, BUT.....maybe just maybe you can get tough after the holidays.

What if this blows up and you end up telling him he needs to go? You seem to be handling things well in your own mind and are remaining calm. The anger WILL hit trust me, but what if you can keep calm and let your kids enjoy a great holiday. They will have great memories instead of remembering mommy and daddy fighting or that daddy didn't live at home this Christmas.

Do what is right for you. As I said your WH actions and behaviour raise some concerns. But everything works on your timeline NOT ours.

Good luck whatever path you choose. (((Hugs)))


1st D day: Saturday July 20,2013
2nd D day....when the s**t really hit the fan and the truth came out.Saturday August 3,2013
3rd D day: Friday August 16, 2013...NC sent Friday Aug 30 4th D day NOV 11
Me: BS
Him: WH
Married 25 years....finally in R

Posts: 373 | Registered: Aug 2013
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, December 5th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Annb. You are very early in. You're probably in shock/anger stage. Most of what you wrote could have been written by me. I am 9 months out…things are going well but they weren't until about 2 months ago. I think my husband finally got out of the fog - it took him THAT long, yes. He went through a withdrawal period when he finally ended it with her in early May. That was painful to observe.

When you don't know what to feel/do with things, don't do anything. You need not be in a hurry to make decisions, etc. In fact, you should not make any big decisions if you are not in the right frame of mind.

Just see how things go for awhile…right now, actions and follow through on his part are going to be what counts the most. Expect some rough waters ahead…it sometimes gets worse before it gets better. Not all days will be bad, but not all are going to be good. It's a lot of ups and downs. Be patient with yourself!!!


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 897 | Registered: Jun 2013
Topic Posts: 15

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