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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Question for BS Menz
No12turn2
♂ Member
Member # 40996
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, December 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know that I will have the chance. My WW would not consider R and doesn't have it in her to even touch me. It sucks so much and I often feel jealous when I see the WSs on here who actually want to do the work.


Me/BS 35
WW 32
M 12 yrs 2 Girls 10 & 7
Phone/Cyber Affairs (3 D-Days)
Status: DIVORCED 4/24/2014

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.


Posts: 526 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United Staes
joeboo
♂ Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, December 11th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your constant quest for resolution is very impressive. I’ll admit I was a little reluctant to post because it does expose my own wounds, but your responses to me have been very helpful so hopefully what I say makes a little sense to you. With that said, please don’t let my words offend you.

There is a huge difference between effort and work. For example, you can mow the lawn three times a day every day. That would take a lot of effort but would accomplish little work. The effort could be noble, and the actual work be little. My point here is that it appears you are still not sure what your husband’s dagger really is and quite possibly your husband may not even know or reluctant to admit it.

In my own situation, I have a compound issue. Not only am I dealing with how the betrayal affected my relationship with my fww and how I interact with her, it also affected my self-esteem so much that I can come to grips with how I view myself.

Rhetorically, do you know what your husband’s daggers really are? Does he know what his daggers really are? Can you accept his perception of what happened?

I hope one day all your effort will be all work. I wish you and your husband much peace.


[This message edited by joeboo at 8:33 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1211 | Registered: Feb 2011
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

joeboo,

I'm not offended. Honestly, I'm kind of confused.

I hope one day all your effort will be all work.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the implication is that I'm only doing "effort" as opposed to "work". And that's simply not the case at all.

Everything I've done on myself is "work". All the crap I'm fixing internally has absolutely nothing to do with QS. He hasn't touched it. Hasn't gotten involved. Hasn't pushed, asked, or prompted. It's all mine to own and fix. Everything within myself is 100% work.

As far as "effort" and "work" in regards to the relationship aspect, I can only go off of what QS gives me. I can only be pro and reactive to his lead.

What do you mean by a "dagger"? Are you referencing a trigger?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6313 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie,

You cause what you fear.

My WS feared I would "hold it over her head forever". I was ready to start trusting again, and was towards the end of hypervigilance. But she didn't want to own up to it or make amends, she just wanted to sweep it under the rug.

And then I found out she was meeting OP again at a hotel.

Complete blowup and now we're going towards S because she made it "my fault" again.

Someone used an analogy of shooting you in the knee then complaining you can't walk. Well, in my case, after I stood up, she *then* shot me in the other knee and complained I couldn't run.

But before Friday I was there. I was ready to R if she showed me remorse and opened up about the relationship. Alas, instead she blameshifted, stonewalled, trickle-truthed, and self-victimized, plus continued lying, a lot, or possibly all, out of the very fear you illustrate here.

To her credit, the one thing she never did (save the first few minutes during D-Day) was gaslight.

Nothing she did showed me empathy for my position, even after I showed complete empathy for hers.

Now she's asked me for S because she still doesn't accept her own part on this. So maybe we'll never know.

I'm in the NC the WS phase, and planning on moving out to a different place.

And stupid me, a part of me still has hope. The hope of a child.

None of us want perfect. We just want honesty, effort and the opportunity to trust and be trusted again. What y'all did was *big* and didn't happen overnight. Big steps and a similar amount of time are important to heal the hurt.

I read in a book that rule of thumb for time is, once R is agreed upon, both parties are committed and you start dating again, 1.5x the amount of time the A lasted from first contact can repair the damage, so in my case of an 11-12 month affair in 1.5y we would have been ok. That may be too long to wait for her, if she can't even go 3 days without breaking NC to OM.

We're weak, we're hurt. And although we're not vindictive (remember, we loved you deeply until D-Day), we're not stupid either.

Cheers and thank you for the questions,


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brilliance Joeboo...

Absolute Brilliance!!!!

ETA: The concept I mean, not necessarily directed at you Aubrie

[This message edited by Chicho at 6:16 PM, December 12th (Thursday)]


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2635 | Registered: Aug 2012
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie,

Have you read "After the Affair", or "Not 'just friends'"? It's possible your BS is so hurt that he can't bring himself to self-analyze. IC for him and you will be important, and going through and working on things with him, off the book if need-be, may jumpstart it a bit.

Until recently I was underlining what I thought were her and my childhood issues and hangups about As and security driving the problems. She refused to sit down and analyze with me. Maybe in your situation it's him that is having trouble facing it?


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GotPlayed
You cause what you fear.
I'm not afraid. My questions are not from a place of fear and/or frustration. I asked these questions for informational and educational purposes. To have a conversation. To read and understand the diversity of the gentlemen here. And because I know that every other WW on this site wants to know as well. Yes our situations are our own. Each is unique. But to hear other people sound off on it is very encouraging and eye opening for many here.

Our Dday was November 4, 2011. We're in year 3 of recovery and we're in a very good place.

There are times when QS doesn't talk. He's more introverted. Which I have discovered is not always a bad thing. It's just part of who QS is. I understand and respect that part of him now. Many, many times I start threads and it opens up a huge conversation for he and I.

I'm not at all saying he isn't forgiving. He isn't loving. He isn't dealing. That's not the case at all. And if my post was misleading, I apologize.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6313 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah, sorry about the confusion. Please remember I'm on month 1 after D-Day. So we're talking about two completely different parts in the process.

It sounds like you're in a good place. If you're being honest with each other, then it will improve with time maybe?

My therapist said, when we were starting the MC which we may no longer go back to unless she wants back in, "it will *never* be the same, but that doesn't mean it can't be *very good*." He never promised "better". But I'll take very good over my entire past year (even before I knew what she was doing, I should have known there was something wrong; I should have seen the signs and I didn't).

Anyway, be grateful for what you have. Think of how many others will never get as far as you have. Love each other, and be strong for each other. Cheers.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
joeboo
♂ Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, December 12th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the implication is that I'm only doing "effort" as opposed to "work".

Your original question was asking if BH’s could ever get to a place where they can genuinely love and respect their FWW again. You also asked if you can look at your FWW and be proud of who she is today, if she has done the hard work. I was in no way implying that you were only doing “workless” effort, especially when it comes to working on fixing you. I am implying that just because a WW gets better it does not mean there is a proportional healing of the BH. As a BH, I think that any WW that makes gains in fixing their issues is a great thing. But just as you said, fixing all the things internally has absolutely nothing to do with your BH, in my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with how a BH views what has happened even if he is proud of all the work she did to help herself.

Maybe I misunderstood the original question because even if my wife is not at risk to be a repeat offender, it does not address the issues of why I lost the love, respect, and pride in her. Those things also take work by both parties. I have spent an incredible amount of effort on just that but have not accomplished much work, nor has my fww.

What do you mean by a "dagger"?

It’s just a figure of speech for a significant pain of betrayal. At this stage it would probably be more of an unresolved betrayal. For me, it is what keeps me from progressing my opinion of my fww. Granted, some of those daggers cannot be fixed by her. Some of those daggers have to be fixed by me, and some by both of us. Then there is one dagger left for me that that is so emotionally debilitating it seems like it is irreparable damage. My fww doesn’t consider it an issue, or at least that is what she claims. It creates an environment ripe for “workless” effort.

Even though each situation is different, I suspect that every BH has his own daggers. I cannot imagine his regard for his WW would improve until those daggers are removed. Sometimes, he cannot remove them himself. So to any wayward, regardless of gender, what are the remaining significant betrayals your BS feels? It is my opinion that until those are resolved, it is very difficult for a BS to move forward without any sense of reckless abandon.

So, if the efforts to resolve those issues are not focused on the most significant of unresolved betrayals, that effort doesn't accomplish as much work. I guess what I am trying to say is I wish you and your BH the best and may each of you be successful in focusing your efforts where it will do the most work in hopes of a happier ending much sooner than not.



Posts: 1211 | Registered: Feb 2011
Camalus
♂ Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’ve been following this thread, hesitant to chime in because we’re not quite six months from DDay. My wife’s A ended in 1998 but I only found out about it this July which, while the circumstances aren’t unique, causes the dynamics of our recovery (I hesitate to call it reconciliation as yet) somewhat different.

That being said, I do feel my fWW is re-earning my respect and the scars caused by her actions will heal and become fainter over time. The hardest part for me is the intimacy that has been lost. I’m not talking about sexual intimacy but rather emotional intimacy.

For me, this damage will be the hardest to overcome. Simply put, I no longer feel I can open myself up to her, confide in her, and discuss my deepest/darkest thoughts and fears with her. It is sad that after more than thirty years of marriage I do not feel I can tell my fWW when I am worried about something.

I know that sounds trivial compared to what many on SI are going through, but this lack of emotional intimacy (on my part) concerns me more than anything else.


Me–BS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 120 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, December 13th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GotPlayed
Ah, sorry about the confusion. Please remember I'm on month 1 after D-Day.
I completely understand. I'm sorry your WW doesn't have the courage to face her demons. It's a disservice not only to herself, but everyone around her.

Anyway, be grateful for what you have.
Absolutely.

joeboo

Thanks for clarifying. Makes a ton more sense now.

He said he doesn't have daggers. More like a couple splinters here and there. It's finding them and getting the little boogers out.

Camalus

I know that sounds trivial compared to what many on SI are going through, but this lack of emotional intimacy (on my part) concerns me more than anything else.
It's absolutely not trivial. It's your pain and it's very real to you. I learned a long time ago to not compare my issues with anyone else's. It's mine and I'm "allowed" to feel what I feel. You're correct, it would seem that we don't have it "as bad" as some here. While my FOO was screwed up, I wasn't molested, raped, beaten, and locked in closets like some people. I suffered in other ways. Doesn't mean that what I endured doesn't hurt me now. kwim?

Emotional Intimacy is something I'm relatively new at. I went about 9 years without it. Weird marriage to have. Always keeping your partner at arm's length. I learned from the best. My Dad is king of lack of emotional intimacy. I don't think there's a person alive that really knows my Dad, Mother included. I don't really know him. It's interesting how you can live almost your whole life and still not know a person.

Breaking down that wall between QS and I was herculean. And it's still an effort to be completely open, to lay it all out, to put my feelings, heart, and soul out there for him to see under the bright lights. It's terrifying to be that vulnerable to anyone.

You're relatively fresh out from Dday. The betrayal is "old" but the discovery is new. And it still hurts. Give yourself time Camalus. Feel what you feel. Don't feel guilt for feeling it. And don't push yourself. It's a time thing.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6313 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Topic Posts: 71
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