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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
Steppenwolf
♂ Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Inthedark,
IMO, R should even be on the table until WS is out of the fog. 100% transparency. That is it. Not any less. No hiding or withholding anything. You cannot have an authentic R otherwise. I didn't figure this out until I truly thought it was over. Truly.. Not like 'well I can get myself out of this if I do xyz'

When I actually thought there was no hope, I woke up.


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
Flatlined123
♀ Member
Member # 35862
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, January 5th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to thank all of the WS who took time to answer our questions. Some of the answers have helped so much.


Me: BS 43
H : WS 46
DD #1 7-11-08
DD#2 8-21-09 same OW, A never ended.
Started R in 12-09
"If what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I should be able to bench press a Buick."

Posts: 655 | Registered: Jun 2012
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, January 5th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you WSs ever bring your AP to your home and have sex with them on the marital bed?

Into the home, yes. Into the bed, no. I think XH still doesn't believe that, but he divorced me---I have/had no reason to lie.

Do you remember essential details about the affair or is forgetfulness the rule instead of the exception?

I guess it depends on what "essential details" means. I remember the date it began and when D-day was. I don't know the exact number of times we had sex---it was probably 50-60 and I never counted. I couldn't tell you word-for-word conversations/texts/phone calls---there were thousands. I can tell you generalities about thoughts/feelings/etc. and what happened on some specific dates.

How did you seperate the two lives? How did you roll out of AP bed and come home to bed with your spouse? How could you blank your family out of your mind and if you couldn't, how did that not stop you?

I separated them by truly believing (at the time) that they were separate. There was my life with XH, and my life with AP. I never blanked either of them out of my mind...it didn't stop me because I either wanted them both for different reasons or wanted to break off with one for the other. It very much a double life.

How do you turn love off and on like a switch? You love someone, you hate them enough to go look and eventually cheat, then you love them again. I can't wrap my head around this. Is the renewed love more out of guilt?

Cheating was not about "hating" my XH. It was about indifference---not caring about him enough either way.

WH says I ask for too much information & it would be impossible to complete. He does talk about the A if I bring it up & answers any direct questions I have.

I think the longer the affair was (and the longer ago it was) the harder it is to come up with details of a timeline, especially if you are asking for detailed and extensive information. I never wrote one because XH and I weren't in R until 2 years post-D-day, but I couldn't have come up with certain details due to the amount of time AP and I spent together over 5 1/2 months.

Waywards please answer honestly! Did you feel resentment towards your BS that they found out about the affair? Or any resentment that you were made to choose?

No, I never resented him that he found out, and I wasn't made to choose so that is not applicable. I did resent the AP for not speaking up sooner (as in, not until 2 years into my M) but that passed.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDK if you have read my story,Heartbroken, but right now the most serious obstacles to R are, 1. the disrespect she showed me 2. Her dishonesty 3. the sex. and 4. My doubts as to her love for me. I am at a loss as to how she can repair any of these questions, because she must prove them all to my satisfaction. Any info you can give me as to the WS mindset and the "why" of her affair might help.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell, those were pretty much word-for-word my XH's dealbreakers, as it so happens. I'm sorry you're going through this pain. I know it is awful---while I can't know it from your POV, I know how awful it was for my XH.

Our story is such an anomaly because we divorced right away without even attempting R until 2 years out. As such, XH reconciled what I had done, in his own mind, by being away from me. He says today that on one hand he's sorry he D'd so quickly, but on the other hand he knows we couldn't have R'd without it.

Whys: not that it's a competition, but I'd say I was pretty much one of the worst POSs you can imagine with regard to the circumstances of my A, the depth of my deceit and immorality, etc. It all stemmed from a horrible entitlement complex; I went through the motions of being a normally socialized person but behind the scenes I really didn't care about anyone but myself. I even had myself fooled---I didn't realize how bad it was until XH divorced me.

I can't speak for your WW (or any other WS) but I believe most if not all affairs have in large part a component of entitlement. Somehow, at some point, a WS feels justified in cheating. It doesn't have to be an external justification such as "my M was bad" or "my spouse was an asshole." But somewhere, something inside the WS said, I want to do this even though I know it's wrong. There are probably as many varied "whys" for that "even though I know it's wrong" as there are people on SI. I'm not making a blanket statement. But it's something, and sometimes it's not even readily apparent to the WS until they do a very thorough self-examination---sometimes through IC, sometimes through other channels.

ETA: I hit submit too soon and my break is over so I'll have to finish the post later tonight.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 1:19 PM, January 6th (Monday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK. Sorry about the delay.

For your wife to become a safe person (and for you to begin to be able to see her as such) one of the important things she must do is to realize that she betrayed herself just as badly (some say more so) than she betrayed you and the marriage, and to delve into why, if she's not normally an immoral or amoral person, she chose the path of immorality in THIS instance. An oft-used example here on SI: if you want more money, is it OK to rob a bank? How about if you like your neighbor's car; is it cool to go steal it from his driveway when he leaves the keys in it by mistake? No??? Then why is infidelity the path to take in marriage?

This is still something I'm working on figuring out---I certainly don't have all the answers. I'm pretty much a straight arrow in most aspects of my life. I never cheated in school, never broke the law (aside from speeding), don't steal, don't behave unethically at work. So what was it about adultery that was somehow "different"? As I said, I'm still working on this in my own mind. I have some speculations as to why this is, but a.) I don't want to t/j my own response to you and b.) I don't want to presume to speak for anyone else. But either way---it's important that your WW figure this out.

1. the disrespect she showed me 2. Her dishonesty 3. the sex. and 4. My doubts as to her love for me.

1. The disrespect was the number one cause of my XH's hurt. He---and I---could not believe that I could treat him with such disrespect. It was hands-down the most disrespectful thing I've ever done to anyone, ever. As I said in my post above, there was A LOT of disrespect within my affair. It can't be undone. I will always have treated him that way at one point in our relationship: even though we divorced, even if we live another 40 years together, I will always have treated him lower than dirt on my shoe at that point in our lives. It DOESN'T go away. It can't. She can't "make up for it." All she can do is be sincerely remorseful for having done it, commit to treating you respectfully in the future, and live that commitment for the rest of your relationship.

2. This is so very closely related to #1---as it is a form of grave disrespect---but with the added component of a character defect. Opinions are split as to whether character can change; there was an interesting thread along those lines in the General forum some months back. I'm of the opinion that character is, to a certain extent, fluid depending on circumstances and the person in question. I believe this because I've seen it happen. I believe that people can choose to behave immorally, even for extended periods of time such as during an ongoing affair, and be rehabilitated. Whether it be through a spiritual awakening, "turning away from sin" if you will, or through gaining maturity and thus gaining a different frame of reference and a new (or renewed) desire to do right, I do believe it can change and not just through doing the right actions but truly in the heart. So, what can your wife do? Same as the above, it can't be erased. She will always have been a liar during that point in your life together. The question is whether or not she commits to the truth now, and forever forward. Other BSs have great advice to give on trust being restored and the best way for the WS to accomplish this. All I've got for ya is that the truth is the only way once you're known as a liar. It will take a long time for you to believe her, and it will take many, many consistent and verifiable truths deposited in the "trust bank."

3. I know this is a huge issue and a sensitive topic. I'm not sure how qualified I am to speak on this issue or what kind of advice I can give you. I believe that extramarital sex damages the relationship between spouses in so many ways, and it damages the WS as well as the BS. For me, at least, there is a lot of shame attached to sex due to my A. The sex act was twisted and devalued to such an extent during my A that it's very hard to bring it back to normalcy. I do believe that extramarital sex is an indicator of a flawed sense of self in the WS---lack of self-worth, lack of self-respect, lack of self-love. It is doubtful that it is any kind of a reflection on the BS or the sexual relationship within the marriage. Even if that's the "surface reason" given, there's the deeper aspect of lack of self-respect beneath it, and each individual's corresponding "why" for that.

4. Much like the issues of respect and honesty as discussed above, time and consistent actions by your WS are the only way to prove, in this case, her love. Does she know how to show you love in the way you interpret it? If so, is she actually doing it? Are you able to be open with her and tell her what you need from her?

Time. Consistency. Remorse. Transparency. Actively working on herself. Striving every day to be a better person. Working to heal the marriage from her transgressions. These are all things your WW can do to help this process. I wish you the best.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, January 6th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your kind response. I don't think I can reconcile with my wife, if she isn't doing all that you have said, and in a verifiable manner. One thing that I am having difficulty with is whether or not I still love her. I loved and still love the person I THOUGHT she was, but apparently that person doesn't exist any more and perhaps never did.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
kate0421
♀ Member
Member # 40819
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have quite a few question and would appreciate any insight.

For WS that TT. How long before you stopped the TT and and came clean on everything? Was there anything to help you ( like would your BS do or say anything to make you feel more comfortable) or was it just an "aha" moment. Are there any WS who have not been completely honest or never plan to? if so why?

Im having a hard time believing my WS, he TT but insist I know everything now. For those who TT in the beginning, did your BS actually believe you when you told them everything? Did your BS feel like you were still lying or were hiding something?
I think the reason I feel so doubtful is because he was TT and never though he would do this in the first place let alone lie about it when confessing. And the issue for me is my WS cannot/will not give me some of the answers I feel I need. Like exactly when it happened and their names ( 2ONS )He insists that he really cant remember, saying he was drunk and weak and just never thought about it in detail and it was so long ago ( 3-5yrs)
Is it possible to just not remember exactly when you betrayed BS? or am I being naive? I just cant understand how someone wouldn't remember.

Sorry so many questions.. TIA


ME: BS
HIM: WS
Together over 9yrs
2 children
DDAY 9/23/2013- 2 ONS (2009-2010)
TT. 5/14/2014- slept with OW1 twice

Posts: 267 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Tampa Bay Florida
ddame23
♀ Member
Member # 40407
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are about 9 months past D-day and are in the season when his affair ramped up from months of EA to PA. Over Christmas break, WH has had a complete change of demeanor, he's much more calm and seems centered in a way he hasn't in years. He told me that he started looking at real estate listings as a way to prepare should we break up and that he's not anxious about what will happen to him in that event. During another conversation on a different day, he flat out told me he wouldn't feel guilty if we divorced. He just spent several days last week scouring through our financial records to come up with a budget for the new year and I've started to believe that he is planning to walk out on me and our son. Did any other waywards go through anything like this? Is this a normal phase?


Me 42
Him RSF2013
1 5 year old child
D-Day April 18 2013
The whole Truth 7/21/14
Spoke (wrote) too soon more TT 7/23/14
I can't even put into words...

Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Coastal Empire, GA
inshockandhurt
♀ Member
Member # 38789
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, my question is about affair sex. For those of you who told your BS that the AP wasn't as good in bed, were you telling the truth?


Me: 29 BS
Him:31 WS
D-day1: caught July-ish of 05
D-day2: caught 2/17/13 6 month EA/PA
Both were with friends of mine
2 sons
Trying to reconcile

"Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."


Posts: 278 | Registered: Mar 2013
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@inshockandhurt:

My xAP wasn't good in bed. Very inexperienced and had gotten her cues from Cosmo, bad porn, and previous crappy lovers. So that wasn't a lie.

But...because she was a blank canvas, and I was her golden god, we had some great sex driven by secrecy, naughtyness, novelty, and her complete and utter amazement at all my clever lovemaking creativity and Studly moves. She ended up being an ego kibble dispensing machine as I basked in all the glory my little self satisfied low self esteemed self could fuck my way into gobbling.

Shallow, pathetic, broken.

And all the while having a sexy, much better looking, smarter, nicer and WAY better lover AND uninhibited AND experienced AND naughty partner at home. My betrayed wife.

God what an asshole I was...

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Heartbroken0903 for your thoughtful, in-depth response.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 843 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
inshockandhurt
♀ Member
Member # 38789
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you JD, I wonder sometimes if he tells me that simply because he doesn't want to hurt my feelings by telling me that she was better than me. Thank you for answering my question so thoroughly.


Me: 29 BS
Him:31 WS
D-day1: caught July-ish of 05
D-day2: caught 2/17/13 6 month EA/PA
Both were with friends of mine
2 sons
Trying to reconcile

"Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."


Posts: 278 | Registered: Mar 2013
Merlin
♂ Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Expiration Date

For WS the ended up divorced, why 5 years later is my ex-w beating me to death with lawyers, permanent alimony and on and on. She had the affair, would not end it or reconcile. The divorce was a near war.

She makes $125k a year but was awarded $3,100/mth permanent alimony.

Why would a WW put herself in the position of being tied to her BH essentially forever?

Why doesn't/can't she let go?


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/57 Me: BS/63 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1164 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
Steppenwolf
♂ Member
Member # 38140
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, January 7th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kate


For WS that TT. How long before you stopped the TT and and came clean on everything?

Over a year- false R. Sold my BS some BS. Gave her just a small piece of what was actually going on, and stuck to my story. Superdouche should be my handle instead of Steppenwolf.

Was there anything to help you ( like would your BS do or say anything to make you feel more comfortable) or was it just an "aha" moment.

It was definitely an aha for me. She could have made me the most comfortable human being on earth and it wouldn't have helped at all. In fact, it wasn't until I was uncomfortable that it hit me. It was when I truly thought she was going to leave. I actually joined SI probably with the intent of figuring out a way to get her back. And after reading like a maniac looking for an answer, I got one. I figured out that it was me I needed to work on.

[This message edited by Steppenwolf at 9:31 PM, January 7th (Tuesday)]


Me: WS- 30s
Her: BS- 30s RockyMtn



Posts: 126 | Registered: Jan 2013
allatsea
♂ Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 4:24 AM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For WS the ended up divorced, why 5 years later is my ex-w beating me to death with lawyers, permanent alimony and on and on. She had the affair, would not end it or reconcile. The divorce was a near war.

She makes $125k a year but was awarded $3,100/mth permanent alimony.

Why would a WW put herself in the position of being tied to her BH essentially forever?

I would like to know the answer to this, too.


Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now pregnant
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 648 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ddame23

I don't know if your WH's behavior is common, but I will say that I'm in favor of everyone in a marriage (whether it's ending or not)---even the WS---having a sense of financial security and stability. This isn't always possible, of course, I realize that. I also don't know your story so I don't know if in fact you are separated or heading toward D.

I will say that since my D, I am much better off financially than I was when I was married and I feel much more secure. I know now that I can take care of myself and depend on myself and that I am able to be OK alone. Even if we remarry, I will find some way to make sure I don't lose that sense of security and well-being.


Merlin

Maybe your XW is interested in retaining some form of control over you; maybe enjoys some sick "power trip" of you owing her financially.


MC Jack and Bdell, you are welcome. I only hope I could be of help.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 8:02 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2080 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH was pretty agitated in our MC session tonight (2nd time with new MC) regarding "being told that his feelings for AP weren't real or that they took place in a fantasy world". That he can't turn off his feelings for her like a lightswitch. He is still in a lot of pain over her. We've been working at R for nearly 10 months. He's been loving to me, says he wants this, plans to move back in....

I'm SO confused. Did any of you WS still have strong feelings for your AP almost a year after DDay? He ended the PA in March, but didn't do real NC right away. Still "checked in with her to see how she was doing" etc. (I hadn't found SI yet!!!). He has an unavoidable business relationship with her.

Did your feelings for AP linger long after the PA? Or does this mean they are likely still involved (PA or EA)??? (I know you can't answer that last question...sorry). I'm just trying to decide if I'm a fool. Our MC didn't seem to think that lingering feelings were a problem and would dissipate over time.... As long as he was choosing healing actions with me and committing to our M. Most threads I've read on SI seem to indicate that lack of immediate remorse should be a dealbreaker. Help!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 633 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
shatteredapart
♀ Member
Member # 41978
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH had a 9 month EA (possibly PA) with a coworker. He said she was like his best friend and he could tell her anything. They are area managers and would meet half way (so hours drive each) for lunch (out of their respective areas). He would buy. I found out in Sept and he claimed to break it off via text that I never saw. Told her he got on trouble for talking to her he said. I found out in October that he reconnected with her using calling cards. He promised he stopped and over time I began to believe him. I caught him (Christmas time) by listening to his voicemail and hearing several disturbing messages from her where she said she loved him and misses him. He says she loves her husband and that they're "just friends". He admitted he had reached out to her again in October and continued the contact. I know they met up for lunch several times again. This time with her bringing it and turn eating outside. He says it's now really done and over.

My question for WS is can I trust that he really ended it this time or is he still gas lighting me? Did you promise you broke it off several times only to still continue contact?

[This message edited by shatteredapart at 7:41 AM, January 9th (Thursday)]


Me-BS
Him-WS
EA(PA?) 10 months with COW
3 ddays-Sept '13, Oct '13, Dec '13
Attempting Reconciliation...time and actions will tell

Posts: 118 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: USA
kmom2662
♀ Member
Member # 41494
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, January 9th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stillstanding--
Mine was an EA, not a PA. I definitely felt a pull toward AP, I have been calling them cravings, because that is how it feels to me. It was occasional, usually when triggered by something we had talked about. They decreased over a couple of months and are about gone, now at just over 3 months from d-day. The thought of AP now actually causes me anxiety and disgust. I'm so relieved, because I want to feel that way. I can't imagine feeling anything good toward him again.


Me-- WW, 49
Him-- BH, 53 (bobf)
Married 22 years
OEA, chat/email with multiple people over an 8 week period, 8/2013-10/4/2013
D-day 10/4/13
Working on reconciliation

Posts: 69 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: United states
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