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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You seem to have little concern about your spouses' welbeing.

It's difficult to describe. I totally care about my H's "well-being", using your terminology. What I don't fuss over is in trying to prove anything to him.

Hm. Here is a trite analogy. It's kind of like going on a diet. If I do it to prove something to someone, I will resent it and blow everything. If I want to eat right and exercise for myself, I am more likely to stick to it.

So , in view , of your attitude , do you think it is more or less likely that you would cheat again?

I hope not. I have a lot of issues. I cannot guarantee that I can stick to the correct path when the monster wants a feed. I have put a lot of safeguards in place. And I really hope not.

But I'm not doing this for my H. It's for me.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6092 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you WS's deal with the rightful anger of your BS's?

I was terrified. But I deserved it.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6092 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Song,

I saw this quote somewhere on here, "Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin"

My husband is doing what he needs to do to work on himself, and us. He knows that the things he personally need to deal with are his and only his, and that he hast o fix them if we stay together or not, but if I didn't feel like he was doing ANYTHING for me, I think I might leave.

HE did something TO me, something terrible and hurtful, and unbelievable, and the the things he does now to prove that he is working, and to try to prove that he is being honest, and committed, are FOR me in a way, because he is remorseful, and he knows that these things will make my healing easier and our reconciliation more possible. He says because he chose the actions that lost my trust, he WANTS to prove to me that he has changed.

IMO, the WS SHOULD do things for the BS. If they really love the BS, I'd think they would WANT to do things for them; things that lessen the pain, that reassure, that calm, that help heal.


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 122 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
bookjunkie
♀ Member
Member # 39033
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bionicgal -
I am a WW who had an A with my H's best friend. I feel so much humiliation at myself and definitely feel degraded. I thought I was something "special" to AP and now know that I was just another piece of ass. There were things my H knew about his friend that I didn't and had I known, I think things would have turned out differently. But I can't go back and undo what I did.

Your question also made me remember when we left the hotel how crappy I felt. I felt like I had been used and that AP wouldn't contact me again. I had this horrible sinking feeling in my stomach. I really wanted him to call me while I was on my way home for reassurance but he didn't do it. Instead I called him. How pathetic am I? Just thinking about all of this makes me ill.


WW 43 (me)
BH 45
Married 24 yrs
3 kids
DDay 2/10/13 Confessed
Reconciling

Posts: 62 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Southern USA
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO, the WS SHOULD do things for the BS. If they really love the BS, I'd think they would WANT to do things for them; things that lessen the pain, that reassure, that calm, that help heal.

You and your husband work well together because what works for each of you works for the other.

My H and I do what works for us.

As an example, many BSes want the WS to make a big deal out of the antiversary - whether it is to reclaim, to apologize, or whatever the BS needs. My H would rather I never bring it up. And that works for us.

My therapist says that everybody gets a payoff (for themselves) out of what they do or else they would stop doing if. I will not do what does not work for me, even if the marriage requires it. Fortunately, what I do and do not do happen to work for me and my H.

The summary is that you let your WS know what you need. And if what you need also works for your WS, then that is good. Regardless, the choice to reconcile is yours - your prerogative and your gift to your WS.

ETA:

Undeserved Mercy

I never asked for mercy nor forgiveness. It is not an issue for me. Whether my H gives me mercy or not does not change what I do.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 11:55 AM, January 24th (Friday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6092 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Before I answer questions I'd just like to say that I agree with US's entire post above. ^^

WearingTheHorns

I was wondering if any of the WS's had been in an A prior to the M they're now (or were) in that brought them here. Did being in that A influence the recent one in any way?

Yes. I've either cheated or had a "back-up plan" in every single relationship I've ever had except one (the one after I was divorced). This definitely influenced the recent A in that I simply had no respect for relationships or partners in general. I always just did whatever I wanted and to hell with everyone else. That didn't change until I was divorced.


2yrsblind

Finally my question for you (or any other WW) how much of a factor did what you feared your BH would think of you play in holding back the truth or confessing?

Well, everything. If I didn't care what my BH would think the A wouldn't have been hidden in the first place. If I'd had the guts to leave when I first considered it, and I didn't care what he would think (in other words, how it would make me look), I would have done so.

One more question that really doesn't apply to me, in thinking about leaving for the OM was it in part because it would be easier then facing up to what you had done to BH?

No, in my case it was simply that we had once been in a relationship---he dumped me---and when he said he wanted me back, I thought I wanted him back too. I lacked the courage to leave my M because I was a cake-eater and gutless.

NikkiD

Seriously...If you have decided that your heart is with your AP, why not just go ahead and go? What are you waiting on? I mean, with ANYTHING comes work. Hell EVERYTHING. I mean, Usain Bolt is the fastest man in the world, but he still has to go to practice./work everyday.

I absolutely agree that with everything comes work. It was one of the things I was never "foggy" about as a WS---I knew that had I ever left my M and the AP and I tried to have a relationship, it would have required work. I never thought it was a rainbow-and-unicorns fantasy that was simply perfect all on its own.

I didn't leave because I was a coward. After XH found out and divorced me, I didn't try to legitimize the relationship because the infidelity stink would never have gone away. We (or at least I) would never stop thinking about it. Plus, it would have further humiliated my XH and I wasn't going to do that. FTS.


Bdell

I understand what you're saying. And I didn't mean to be harsh with my post to you. I guess maybe I'm just not a good person to answer your questions, since I was never in R in the immediate aftermath of D-day when tensions were at their highest. My XH had long since moved past the anger/hurt of the A by the time we began R.

Any work I currently do, I do for me. I don't do anything special or go out of my way to reassure XH. I'm just me. And as US said, that's good enough for my XH.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 8:54 PM, January 24th (Friday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
2yrsblind
♂ Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 2:45 AM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbroken0903,

Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting you didn't care about what BS thought, but you cared too much to tell him the whole truth. More of a fear that he would think less of you if he knew ALL.

Gosh, I don't want to sound like an a$$, but I have to say this. I think saying you were a coward, and gutless is a copout. I think you simply wanted both men. There was something pulling you to AP, yet you knew BS was the better man. In my opinion you were caculated. I know you admitted to cake eating but I've also read that your not "in love" with xh and hadn't been for a long time. With the AP maybe you felt that "in love" feeling which is simply a strong sexual attraction that fades in every relationship. Sure it peaks from time to time but it also goes in the valley.

Again my opinion I simply think it was the best of both worlds. Having a stable marriage with a guy who loved you that you may or maynot have loved, having the hot sexual relationship (lusty "in love" feeling) which you chased thoughout your marriage and found with the AP. You knew what you were doing and simply got caught through an oversight in billing.

With that said, I'm happy and in an odd way proud that you've found yourself. Odd how I've connected with some of the stories here.

And again, its just my opinion.

[This message edited by 2yrsblind at 2:57 AM, January 25th (Saturday)]


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my opinion you were caculated.

Agreed.

I know you admitted to cake eating but I've also read that your not "in love" with xh and hadn't been for a long time.

With the AP maybe you felt that "in love" feeling which is simply a strong sexual attraction that fades in every relationship. Sure it peaks from time to time but it also goes in the valley.

See, that's where it gets interesting. At the time of my affair, I would have considered myself "in love" with both men. XH and I were sexually attracted and compatible. There was no typical "I love you but I'm not in love with you" justifying or "Oh, the passion is gone, things are stale, etc." bullshit that you hear. Hell, when I started cheating, we'd only been married 2 years.

The "not in love" with him realization came AFTER D-day, after my head was out of my ass, after I matured. After I realized that the limerance feeling is not important.

Again my opinion I simply think it was the best of both worlds. Having a stable marriage with a guy who loved you that you may or maynot have loved, having the hot sexual relationship (lusty "in love" feeling) which you chased thoughout your marriage and found with the AP.

Agreed on "best of both worlds"---I guess more accurate to say, rather than calling myself a coward, would be to say that I simply could not choose between them. They both had qualities I enjoyed in relationships. Disagree on the sex thing---again, at that time I had it with XH too.

You knew what you were doing and simply got caught through an oversight in billing.

I definitely knew what I was doing. I'll admit to that. I intended to eventually choose one (by the end of the soap opera I had decided on my XH---how noble of me ) and never breathe a word of it and no one would be the wiser. Uh-huh. Worked out real well.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
2yrsblind
♂ Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I recall reading that when a woman is involved in an A they tend to take one of two roads as far as sex goes with the BH. 1) over sexual 2) totally avoids but very rarely does the sex life remain "normal" or what the BS is use to. My exWW was a very busy woman for the two weeks of her sexual awaking. Having had sex with AP 8 times and me almost everyday (toughest part for my ego to take). Got my attention because we had barely had sex 10 times over a two year period

Well I had more, but I've gotta run one of my 2 month old triplets is hungry.


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you were caculated

By definition, affairs are calculated. No one is saying anything to the contrary.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6092 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
2yrsblind
♂ Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By definition, affairs are calculated. No one is saying anything to the contrary.

I disagree first of all, but not the point here.

Not really talking about the affair, not really. More about how she tried to have two men. She said she was too gutless and cowardly to end the marriage. I contend she never intended on ending either relationship and was happy having both. I believe the turmoil was more of a "what if". What if I get caught then which would I pick?

Take the marriage and commitment off the table and you have a women deciding which of the men held a better future but enjoying both, while joking with her closest of friends how combined they would make Mr Perfect.


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 5:25 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2yrsblind,

Your questions have been answered. If you don't agree with the answers, or wish to further debate the matter, please feel free to post about it in General or Reconciliation.

Thank you


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36961 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2yrsblind,

I didn't realize that was what you were getting at. In that case, you are incorrect. No debate necessary.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartbroken, You are being very helpful and I appreciate it. I don't get too shook up about a little temper. Actually the questions I have are probably really hard to answer by any WS. The biggest is Why now? Why am I so important now? Why is she willing to do a ton of work on herself now? And the 64,000 question, if it wasn't about sex, why have sex? A simple question, but really hard to answer, I guess. I guess I'm done here, so I will thank all of you who have responded, whether I agree with you or not.
BTW, Unexpectedsong, in a way I'm jealous of your husband. If my wife had the same attitude as you, my decision would be a whole lot easier to make. I wish you luck.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, Unexpectedsong, in a way I'm jealous of your husband. If my wife had the same attitude as you, my decision would be a whole lot easier to make.

Hm. I don't think this was meant in a positive way, but I'll take it at face value. I wish you peace in your decision making.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6092 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, bookjunkie. I am not trying to make remorseful WW feel bad about themselves, but am trying to find a way to feel some compassion for my H's AP, who was my friend.

I have felt preyed upon, and know she had some measure of jealousy for me/our relationship. So, me seeing the less "glamorous" side humanizes her a tiny bit. Of course, what she did to me was just vile, but if I can see her as person who was hurting, at least a little, it doesn't seem so personal.

Technically my H used her -- although he would not have thought that is what he was doing at the time - and of course, she was using him, too. But thanks for humanizing it a bit from the WW standpoint for me.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1887 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpectedsong, I reread it and it doesn't seem particularly positive, even to me. LOL Sorry about that. What I SHOULD have said is that you seem to have determined on a course of action, irrespective of your husband, which would make it an easier decision for him, to either R or D. Sort of "he can either like it or lump it". Inflexible. I really don't know if your way is right or wrong, but it would certainly simplify the decision making process.

[This message edited by Bdell at 5:01 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
SlowUptake
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Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sort of "he can either like it or lump it". Inflexible. I really don't know if your way is right or wrong, but it would certainly simplify the decision making process.

That's not quite right, perhaps I could clarify.
If I'm off base US, feel free to let me know.

After Dday we remorseful waywards bust our butt to placate our BS. Most of us take some time to get up to full speed.

At some point we let go of the outcome because we realise we've been trying to control the situation.
We have been working for the wrong reason, i.e. to convince our BS to reconcile and not divorce.

Once we do let go of the outcome, we bust our ass to make ourselves better human beings, regardless of whether our BS chooses to reconcile or divorce.
If in doing the work to better ourselves our BS notices, approves and decides to reconcile, that's just a happy bonus.

My own BS says she noticed that I had truly become remorseful around the same time I let go of the outcome. Go figure. I thought I had been remorseful all along.

Why is it better to let go of the outcome and change for myself? For me it's the only way any changes I make to myself are going to stick. If I make the changes to only achieve an outcome, what happens when that outcome is achieved or removed as a possibility?

ETA
I'll pose a question for you Bdell.
What would you rather have in the long run for your safety?
A remorseful WS who does everything humanly possible to placate you or one that does everything possibly to make themselves a better, safer human being whether it placates you or not?

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 7:12 AM, January 28th (Tuesday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

let go of the outcome

Yes, this is it exactly.

If I make the changes to only achieve an outcome, what happens when that outcome is achieved or removed as a possibility?

It is also manipulative. I do not want to "control" my H into staying. He needs to stay because he wants to.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 8:36 AM, January 28th (Tuesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6092 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slowuptake, I don't want to T/J too much, but I would have to say , either both or neither. If the only reason my wife is remorseful is to "placate" me, that is disrespectful and patronizing. If all she cares about is "self improvement" that is selfish and uncaring. Plus, neither address fully what she did to me, or demonstrate any real love for me. I would be happy if my wife fixes her issues, but that, in and of itself, will not atone for her cheating.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
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