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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry , it might be considered manipulative, but it could also be considered just restitution, for the behavior that lead to the cheating, and is also showing the BS that the WS is putting the BS's concerns first. Try as I might, I can see no remorse in the idea that the WS should only address his/her issues, and that makes everything right. Sounds like more excuses and alibis to me.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't leave because I was a coward. After XH found out and divorced me, I didn't try to legitimize the relationship because the infidelity stink would never have gone away. We (or at least I) would never stop thinking about it. Plus, it would have further humiliated my XH and I wasn't going to do that. FTS.

Thank you!!


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't want to T/J any further, but if anyone would like to PM me and discus this, further, I will be glad to reply then.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't want to T/J any further, but if anyone would like to PM me and discus this, further, I will be glad to reply then.
I don't feel comfortable PMing. I'll reply on this thread and risk a "t/j". I mean no disrespect, but keeping this public protects all parties.

If the only reason my wife is remorseful is to "placate" me, that is disrespectful and patronizing. If all she cares about is "self improvement" that is selfish and uncaring
What you aren't seeing is that her actions have literally nothing to do with you. She didn't do this "to you". She did this to herself. You are collateral damage in her broken, screwed up choices.

I didn't respect myself as a human being. Therefore it was impossible for me to really respect anyone or anything else. I limped my way thru life and marriage. My husband suffered because of it. Affairs have nothing to do with the BS and everything to do with the WS. It's our minds, our poor coping, our poor choices, our warped sense of reality.

You are making this an either/or thing. (The placating and self-improvement) It's really not. A WS is capable of being incredibly apologetic and attempting to fix the marriage as well as work on themselves. They go hand in hand.

If the WS isn't "selfish" and doesn't fix what is wrong with them, history will repeat itself. It's like being a dry drunk. I have been there Dude. I'd mess around, attempt to bandaid the gaping wound, then when life settled down, mess around again. Until a WS can say, "Ya know what, I'm screwed up and I need to fix me", both people in the marriage are in serious danger.

Plus, neither address fully what she did to me, or demonstrate any real love for me. I would be happy if my wife fixes her issues, but that, in and of itself, will not atone for her cheating.
As a FWS, I can tell you whether you believe it or not, if your wife "gets it" and based on your posts she does, she is "atoning" every minute of every day. You can not imagine the guilt and horror a truly remorseful wayward feels thru this process. I wake up every single morning with the knowledge that I destroyed our marriage and that I hurt this beautiful man laying next to me. I live with the knowledge every moment of every day, knowing what I did. I can see the smirks of the AP. I can see the emails and correspondence. I can picture where my husband was in those moments. Completely oblivious to what was going on. That shreds my soul in a horrible way.

What can I do to "atone"? Fix myself. So I don't hurt me anymore. So I don't hurt my children. So I don't hurt my husband. So I'm healthy and whole. Which will in fact "fix what she did to you". A WS that does the work is a safe WS. They learn to respect themselves and by ripple effect, everyone else around them. They make safer, healthier choices.

I have changed so very much since Dday. My life and mentality is completely upside down and a 180 from where it used to be. I've dropped friends, stopped activities, cut off my FOO, and a host of other things to "atone". It was part of my process to fix myself. It was things to make our marriage safer.

At the end of the day, all my hard work, both on myself and my marriage may not be enough. QS can decide at any point that he's done. That is the risk I took. I accept that he can be done. I let go of the outcome. Either way, I'm becoming more healthy by the day and a safer person for whoever I come into contact with.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 10:13 AM, January 28th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6150 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't respect myself as a human being. Therefore it was impossible for me to really respect anyone or anything else. I limped my way thru life and marriage. My husband suffered because of it. Affairs have nothing to do with the BS and everything to do with the WS. It's our minds, our poor coping, our poor choices, our warped sense of reality.

Thank you so much for this!! That was really insightful. My WS keeps saying..."its both our faults...mainly mine though." <<<<That lets me know he was never in recovery status.....

Thanks!!! That just lifted a load...I know what I need to see and hear now!!!


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, I agree with what you say, but it doesn't make me feel any better. Nor does it give me any hope. So I feel that I am best out of it. She can remake herself on her own time. I deserve to be more than collateral damage. I have lived a lie for over 4 years, (the affair , plus the time she didn't confess) I am not going to do it for 5 more. I also agree that there are no guarantees in life, so why stake my future on someone, that has PROVEN, she cannot be the woman I married? I have tried my best to think positive, but I just can't.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS keeps saying..."its both our faults...mainly mine though."
Alot of WS say that. They don't want to take on the full responsibility of their crap choices. It's easier to push blame elsewhere. If we toss around, "Well you worked too much. You didn't pay attention to me. You played too much WoW", then we alleviate the guilt and blame.

Was our marriage perfect before the As? No. But it was ultimately my choice to step out. That had everything to do with me and nothing to do with QS.

Glad it helped Nikki. I hope you find healing.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6150 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand what you're saying Bdell.

If the affair was a dealbreaker for you, it was a dealbreaker. And that's ok.

Wishing you peace.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6150 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...why stake my future on someone, that has PROVEN, she cannot be the woman I married?

Bdell: She IS the woman you married. She made a terrible mistake, and has proven only this: that she's human.

She loves you. And it will all come down to whether you love her enough to believe in her, and forgive her. Only you know the answer to that. My BW does love me, thick and thin, and has chosen to believe in me. That gesture of forgiveness and trust has me invested in our marriage and myself in ways both new and profound. We're not just us, we're a BETTER us.

Your WW has proven to be a model wayward who is willing to do everything it takes to make herself safe for you and your marriage. There are literally hundreds of BS's here on SI who are jealous of YOUR wayward. Who wish their wayward was half the wayward your wife is. But they aren't you. I understand that.

If her infidelity is a dealbreaker, so be it. Lying to yourself to live a compromised life isn't fair to you. Do you love her? Can you forgive her? I wish you peace in finding YOUR answers.

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure how to ask this but WH couldn't explain it and suggested I make a thread on here about it. It's in regards to a "friendship" he had when we first met. He actually met her when he was with his ex-wife. She had a "thing" for him so he gave her his number but then later explained he was married. The met in the parking lot a few times after she got off work to talk but he says they stayed in their own vehicles. After he separated from his ex-wife he said they never dated because she had a long distance boyfriend. They did hang out a few times so their kids could play together. She kissed him on the cheek once during that time. About a month after he started dating me I found out about their relationship. At that point he explained they were only friends and she was "like a sister" to him. A month or so later I read text messages between the two and it became very clear they were not "just friends". They were very flirty and talked about being attracted to each other and maybe trying it out one day when they both were single. We split up for a bit and when we got back together he admitted right away he did talk to her once to talk about me. He now says they also talked about how she liked anal sex. They stayed in contact for at least 3 more months but it was kept secret from me. He says he would text here on occasion (maybe once a week) just to see how she was. One day she was in the area so they decided to meet up. He claims she told him she was engaged and at this time we were as well. They wished each other well and she gave him a peck on the lips before they said goodbye. He never spoke to her again.

I'm not even sure what I am asking. I have a very strong suspicion he is not being fully honest about their relationship. I know it is in the past but he just recently TT about the kiss. I guess I would just like an opinion on the nature of their relationship. So much doesn't make sense to me. Why wait until you are both engaged to kiss on the lips??? If it was just a friendship then why meet up to kiss and say goodbye? I just don't understand it.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What was it that made you come out of the fog? Whether your decision was to move or work on your marriage? (thanks in advance).


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
SofaKingWeToddId
♂ New Member
Member # 41862
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all the waywards that post here.

Did any of you deny your affair for years? What made you finally admit to it? Did you feel guilt while lying?


Posts: 8 | Registered: Dec 2013
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sofaking, I'm not a WS, but I can tell you that my wife thinks that not telling me immediately was the biggest mistake she ever made, besides the affair, itself. She feels an enormous amount of guilt for both.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, Aubrie, So you work on fixing yourself, and then what? What do you FOR your BS to show him that you are changed enough for him to take the risk and give you another chance? Or are you relying on his goodness of spirit and all of the pressures he is under to stay married, to help him make the decision to swallow his pride and accept the affair as a done deal and your new found persona? Isn't he STILL collateral damage to you? You work on yourself and make yourself a better person , and he can either accept that, or somebody new will. What about his feelings?

[This message edited by Bdell at 3:39 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 3:37 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell...

You have a PM.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197204 | Registered: May 2002
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, I'm really not trying to be obtuse, I'm trying to find a way out of this conundrum we are in. I don't particularly want to divorce, but how does fixing her issues help me regain my love and desire for her? Don't you believe that your BS deserves this?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but how does fixing her issues help me regain my love and desire for her?

^^^A rhetorical question or not, I am interested in what WSs might say. Like, how does a BS get to have what they want (an M without adultery) with their WS?

...does a WS that has done the 'work' feel more attractive to their BS?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 862 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how does fixing her issues help me regain my love and desire for her?

It doesn't. Your love for her is a decision that you make. She could be perfect from now on, but the infidelity was a deal breaker. Or she could mope around, but you stay because you want to.

Nothing she does or does not do affects your decision. You get to decide if you want her or to leave.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6090 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how does a BS get to have what they want (an M without adultery) with their WS?

The BS does not. The M is forever broken and scarred. The A cannot be erased. It is taped over, superglued, held together in pieces. You cannot have a "M without adultery" with your WS.

So you decide whether to stay.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6090 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, January 28th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So you work on fixing yourself, and then what? What do you FOR your BS to show him that you are changed enough for him to take the risk and give you another chance?
The greatest gift I could have possibly given him was working on myself and show him every day thru consistent words AND actions, that I was a safe person. Cause till I did, I was dangerous. It doesn't happen overnight. I get the feeling you want an insta-fix Bdell. Sadly, it doesn't can can't happen that fast. If you don't want to wait, that's perfectly within your rights. Some BSs stick around, others walk.

QS made the choice on whether or not to take a risk on me. That was all his choice. So far it seems to be panning out pretty well for him. He told me last night I have become the woman he has always dreamed of. I don't say that arrogantly, but humbly. I'm just another girl that screwed up monumentally. He gave me grace and time to work on me.

Or are you relying on his goodness of spirit and all of the pressures he is under to stay married, to help him make the decision to swallow his pride and accept the affair as a done deal and your new found persona?
I never relied on his goodness of spirit or forced him to swallow his pride. I told him from the get-go I would leave the marriage so he could start over if that would make this easier on him. I knew I had screwed up and let him know that if he wanted me to fight for him, I would break my back to do so, but if leaving was best, I would do that too. I told him this, but did not force him into a decision. He didn't tell me to pack my bags, so I started working. Every day that he didn't make me pack my bags, I worked on me and did what I could to help him thru his pain.

I worked on my whys, I worked on my coping and validation issues. I worked on FOO stuff. I found out his love languages and "spoke" my love to him in ways he was open to.

Isn't he STILL collateral damage to you?
He is my husband. He is a wonderful man that was able to see the broken little girl that I was, see thru it, and see the potential I had. On Dday I took off the rose colored glasses and realized that the world wasn't revolving around me. I wasn't the center of the universe. That there were people that were greatly hurt by my actions. I took responsibility for that and did what I could to rectify the situation.

He was collateral damage because of my crap choices. Everything I've done for me now, will in turn benefit him. (Sounds arrogant. Don't mean it that way.)

My As happened as a result of my selfishness. My healing is probably seen as selfish, but by becoming healthy and "doing the work", I'm becoming safe.

You work on yourself and make yourself a better person , and he can either accept that, or somebody new will. What about his feelings?
What about them? I took them completely into account. I loved him, spoke to him, wrote him letters, had sex with him, dated him, courted him, while I worked on myself. I asked what he needed, he told me, I did it.

He ultimately made the choice to stay in this marriage. And I'm grateful for that chance. I never held "somebody new" over his head. I never said, "Love me, hate me, I don't care." but I did go in with the mindset that I would fix me no matter the outcome of our marriage. I let go of the outcome. I didn't love him and fix myself to control him, his feelings, or our relationship.

how does fixing her issues help me regain my love and desire for her?
That my friend is up to you. Just as it was up to QS. He decided that my As were not dealbreakers. He decided that he could work thru it, and see past them. He didn't define me by them.

how does a BS get to have what they want (an M without adultery) with their WS?
You can't erase history. If we could, there would be a line of people to the moon and back. It is a part of our story. It is a really crappy time in our life. From November 2011 to now, we have been rebuilding and walking in a new direction.

It's like a bad car accident. We got mangled and banged up. We have scars. But as time passes, and we rehabilitate our bodies, it becomes a memory of the past.

Does that answer your questions? Sorry if I tend to repeat myself in some answers.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 7:00 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6150 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
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