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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
greengiant
♂ Member
Member # 41196
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, thank you to all the WS who takes time to answer us.

My WW has FOO issues, compartmentalization, can't express her feelings, want to please everyone, etc. She seems honest, is working on herself, going to IC, MC, etc. She's putting a lot of effort to help our M, and herself.

Few months before her A, she yelled at me saying she wasn't satisfied with our sex life. She then apologized, said it wasn't true, but had an A not so long after that.

She keeps telling me that the way she yelled at me was a way of blaming someone from her pain, because at that time she couldn't admit she had problems. But now, because of what she said before the A, and the PA itself, I'm having sometimes troubles with myself, thinking she's not enjoying her sex life with me.

I asked her if it was better with me, or with him. She say's that the only thing she can say, it is that it was different. She did no comparison between us, compartmentalized it and don't want to open the "boxes", as she says it will only launch us on comparisons that will brings no good.

So, my questions is, did any of you did no comparison ? Do you think she's just not telling me because she don't want to hurt myself ? Or that this A wasn't about the physical aspect of it, but more about finding a way to escape her problems, so it never mattered to her ?


ME - BS - 33
fWW - 33
Married 8 years, together 15
3 kids: 6, 4 and 2
D-Day: September 30th, 2013
She had a 6 weeks A with a COW

Posts: 145 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Quebec, Canada
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FOR WS:
Sorry if these were already asked but I have to ask a couple of questions.

1. Did you in the beginning think there is no way your BS will take you back so you pulled back after DDAY?

2. Did you assume your BS was now having an affair sometime after DDAY?

3. Did you tell your spouse that they had to win you back?

4. At what point did you realize, that there was no excuse or justification for your adultery and it was all on your shoulders and you had to fix it?

5. At what point did you feel like you wanted your BS back and your marriage better than ever?

6. Were their days, you felt like Giving up because of your BS attitude?

7. If you crossed that physical line, how long did it take for your BS to respond to you physically and did you communicate you desired your BS physically after DDay?


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
mightsurvive
♀ New Member
Member # 38794
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First time posting a question. what Greengiant is asking is huge for me too. I heard the same "it was different" from my WH regarding the sex. This was 2 years ago and I still need to know what this means. My WH now says it was awkward and disgusting but what did the initial "different" really mean?

Thanks


BW 37-me
WH 40
Kids
Dday Dec 2011
Reconciling

Posts: 48 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: midwest
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, when I say it was "different" (which it was), I mean that sex with both XH and AP were enjoyable and that I'm not going to make a comparison because neither were "better" or "worse" as a whole, sexually.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FacePunched,

Yes, I have always been a relationship saboteur. The why for that is because I was full of unrealistic expectations WRT love and relationships but also unwilling to face that fact, for a very long time. I would blame "the relationship" for not working (as if it were an independent entity) and then subconsciously destroy it so I could have an excuse to chase the next unicorn (in this context meant to refer to my unrealistic expectations of what a relationship "should be like").

On the conscious level, which sadly I did too, I would sabotage just by doing things that were not conducive to a healthy or happy relationship. Not just cheating---smaller scale: being a bitch. Being inflexible (not willing to compromise). Adopting a "my way or the highway" attitude. Etc.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
JustDesserts
♂ Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ Greengiant & mightsurvive:

WH here. Different is automatically what affair sex is. If a wayward says things to their BS like "it was awkward" or "gross" etc. then that's likely what they think their BS needs and wants to hear. There's all kinds of threads in General and JFO where betrayed's are gaslighted with "Yes, we spent the three day weekend in a hotel bed getting room service but I never saw him/her naked. Never climaxed. And we did this three times a year for 4 years". Yeah, right...

Affair sex is naughty, secretive, illicit, new. Hard to compete with that as a spouse.

Another thread called it sex heroin. Addictive. Destructive. That's an apt description. For me.

Your wayward may vary...


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you in love with your BS's, now?

I never stopped loving him.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6090 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

US, was this something your spouse guided or was this a self realization?

I had an amazing therapist.

I was going to quit theatre for my H because that is where I met the AP. You have to understand that theatre is my passion, my heartbeat. I am most at home when I am in the theatre.

Both my H and the T insisted that I not quit. My T said that if I did, I would likely self-destruct the next time my compulsions hit. What I needed to do was learn my triggers and come up with techniques to break the chain.

I have to fill my soul bank so that the monster does not.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6090 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, January 29th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See, Unexpectedsong, this is probably the hardest thing for me to swallow. My wife, too , said that she always loved me more than anything else. But she consciously and willingly betrayed me. I may not know what love is, but I'm pretty sure that it ain't that. I suggest that, either the WS doesn't really love his/her spouse , at all, or at least somehow suspends any affection during the affair. Why do you think that you loved your H? What evidence did you have that it was true? After all, we stay in marriages for many reasons, and love probably isn't even the most important to a lot of folks. Can you or any other ws truthfully say that they loved their spouse while doing somebody else?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
chetristezza
♀ New Member
Member # 42233
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

US, you don't know me and probably never will. I just want you to know of all the things I've read, and there's been some really helpful advice, your post was what enabled me to see the possibility of a future with my husband. I believe you loved your husband. I believe he loves me. I know it's very possible to love someone and do things that don't come close to the definition.

I did. I married my husband believing his entire childhood young adulthood experiences made us not a good fit. What message is that? I loved him. I love him now. Yet what subtle and not so subtle message was that to him. He never ever mentioned my poverty. My limited experiences or lack of exposure to so many things. He has always expressed his pride at my accomplishments and supported anything I ever wanted to try.

Your post on the work you did with your husbands support was life changing. I'm angry. I'm hurt. I'm also hopeful. I was able to sit and listen and look at him as my husband. Not a stranger. I just listened. I heard his pain at his choices. His fear of our future. His anger at himself. His shame. And his love for his son and of me.

I don't doubt it at all despite his horrific choices. He knows it's going to be hard and we are both realistic enough to recognize we may not get through it together. I won't lie and tell him it didn't end what we had. But I was able to say it may not have ended us.

I just wanted you to know that. Thank you.


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jan 2014
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:48 AM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I won't lie and tell him it didn't end what we had. But I was able to say it may not have ended us.

Yes, the old relationship is broken and gone. Whether you stay with him or move on, it will be a new relationship with new rules.

I wish you peace.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6090 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:58 AM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you think that you loved your H? What evidence did you have that it was true?

I have no empirical evidence. The only thing I can say is that people break all sorts of covenants which have nothing to do with love, although the person who wants a certain behavior will take it as "not love".

People drink even though they promised a loved one they wouldn't. The fact that they still drank did not mean they don't love the person they made a promise to.

I know this is a trite example when compared to marriage vows. It's all I can come up with.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6090 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FOR WS:
Sorry if these were already asked but I have to ask a couple of questions.

1. Did you in the beginning think there is no way your BS will take you back so you pulled back after DDAY?

2. Did you assume your BS was now having an affair sometime after DDAY?

3. Did you tell your spouse that they had to win you back?

4. At what point did you realize, that there was no excuse or justification for your adultery and it was all on your shoulders and you had to fix it?

5. At what point did you feel like you wanted your BS back and your marriage better than ever?

6. Were their days, you felt like Giving up because of your BS attitude?

7. If you crossed that physical line, how long did it take for your BS to respond to you physically and did you communicate you desired your BS physically after DDay?


1. Yes
2. No. I did think so before Dday in a twisted thought process to justify my cheating.
3. No way. It's my job to win her back.
4. Couple months after Dday and false R. Doesn't mean I did anything much about it though till much later.
5. Dday
6. Yep. A few of those in the beginning. Now, not so much.
7. Dday (gotta love HB), now not so much. Yes.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 6:02 AM, January 30th (Thursday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
rbf1234
♀ Member
Member # 39471
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So my experience/interpretation is that WH cut me out of his heart and mind over a number of years during his As... but now says that he is rediscovered feelings of whatever... lets call it love. This is VERY hard for me to understand.

Question for WSs (thank you in advance!):

1. How did your feelings for your BS change after DD? What was the evolution?

2. And... for those of you who stopped empathizing (and/or feeling "in love") with your BS during your A, but do feel that way, how would you describe/explain that change?


Posts: 65 | Registered: Jun 2013
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai


1. Did you in the beginning think there is no way your BS will take you back so you pulled back after DDAY?

I knew he wouldn't take me back even before D-day. After D-day, he had decided to divorce so we both pulled back in that sense.

2. Did you assume your BS was now having an affair sometime after DDAY?

My then-STBXH started fucking my former BFF within 2 weeks of D-day and had her moved in to the formerly marital home within a month. I didn't consider it an affair because we were going to divorce. I had lots of people later tell me that it was probably going on before D-day, "don't be naive," "who finds someone else that quickly?", etc. but then I also had lots of people swear that it really was after, so who knows? I believe my XH though because I've never known him to be a liar. And either way, it doesn't really matter.

3. Did you tell your spouse that they had to win you back?

No

4. At what point did you realize, that there was no excuse or justification for your adultery and it was all on your shoulders and you had to fix it?

I never thought there was an excuse or justification, even during the affair. I knew I had to fix *me*, regardless of the divorce, on D-day.

5. At what point did you feel like you wanted your BS back and your marriage better than ever?

I wanted him back right away. Unfortunately, I didn't have a choice in the matter. I don't believe in "better than ever." It just is what is.

6. Were their days, you felt like Giving up because of your BS attitude?

Not applicable.

7. If you crossed that physical line, how long did it take for your BS to respond to you physically and did you communicate you desired your BS physically after DDay?

I think we had sex maybe within the first week after D-day. It was pretty strange because we had HB for like a week and a half even though I had agreed to move out. The next time we had sex was over 2 years later.


rbf1234

1. How did your feelings for your BS change after DD? What was the evolution?

There was a lot of evolution. On D-day, I was panicked and scared and devastated. It all hit me that I was losing a really great guy and someone I truly did want a life with. At first, he said that he definitely wanted a divorce but that maybe we could still R if I got my shit together. After that, I was hopeful and determined. I thought I could "win him back." Then this happened:

My then-STBXH started fucking my former BFF within 2 weeks of D-day
and subsequently he told me he no longer thought R was possible. My feelings evolved again. I was even more emotionally destroyed---I remember calling my mother in hysterics while I was at work (I can laugh about it now) and I was pissed. That was the day I took my wedding and engagement rings to the pawn shop. I didn't blame him for finding someone else---I was pissed because of *who* it *was*. Because she was playing both sides against the middle---she was being a shoulder for me to cry on, being "there" for me, giving me advice on how possibly to fix this mess---while she was fucking him. For all I know, she was texting me from his bed. Bitch. Anyway. So after that, I knew it was over and I worked toward indifference. It was hard; I missed him so much and was so full of regret for what I had done. I wanted him to be happy, though, regardless. I started dating someone new and eventually thought I'd have a life with him, but I never really stopped wishing XH and I were still together. My relationship eventually ended and XH and I started talking; he asked if I wanted to R. At first I was overjoyed and excited. Then I found out the relationship with xBFF had gone further than I initially thought---
and had her moved in to the formerly marital home within a month
---and I was disgusted. But I rationalized that he hadn't done anything as bad as what I had done, plus hearing how their relationship ended lifted my spirits as well, so I dealt with it. Now, my feelings have evolved to a sort of friendly comfortableness. We don't really have time (both of us) nor inclination (him) to further our emotional intimacy. I love him, meaning that I care about him and want what's best for him and want him to have the very best in life, but I don't really feel passion or romance. Part of that, I know, is my medical condition and the meds I take for it talking. I will find out very soon how BIG of a part that is.

Sorry for such a long answer, but there was a lot of evolution over 4 years.

2. And... for those of you who stopped empathizing (and/or feeling "in love") with your BS during your A, but do feel that way, how would you describe/explain that change?

I don't think I actually ever really empathized with him, or anyone else. Empathy wasn't a feeling I was ever familiar with. That has changed for the better by now. As for "in love"---I believe, now, that that's a feeling that goes away early in relationships and is not important to the long-term health of the relationship. YMMV.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 12:49 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled after divorce

"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"


Posts: 2100 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Iamhappytoday
♀ Member
Member # 39051
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, January 30th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Firstly, I would like to say how much I appreciate the willingness of the WS's on this thread to participate in discussion. I have lurked on this thread so many times hoping for answers as I try to deal with my own personal experience.

My question is directed at WS's who had affairs with other attached individuals. Throughout my STBEH's whole affair, his now girlfriend has been on the warpath for me, spreading nasty comments on social media, bragging, general vitriol.

To say I'm disturbed is only part of how I feel. I'm sad. My self-esteem hit a huge enough bump with the affair happening at all, but to be treated this way by this person who disrupted my life so completely often astounds me--why am I so hated?

My question to waywards is can any of you relate to feeling that hatred to your AP's spouse/SO? I had given this person my kids clothes at one point, given her formula, sat next to her at a restaurant, then the affair happened and I was fair game for cruelty not just by actions with my spouse, but a literal internet attack (which I never responded to).

My ex and she are living together, but I never bring up the things I have learned. I do, however, wonder what causes that mindset of hatred towards the BS.

I hope someone can enlighten me in a very frank way. My question does not mean to come off as judgy, just trying to wrap my head around something that I would like to understand from a different perspective.

I truly appreciate any answers any of you may provide. I may not be on the reconciliation path, but I would like to grow. I appreciate any opinions on this you may have.

[This message edited by Iamhappytoday at 10:12 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]


BW 39
WH 34
2DD's 15 months at start
Together 10 years, M 9
OW 22 CW, 2kids by 2 men & youngest less than 1 when affair started.
Dday 1 8/16/12 "just texting"
TT, gaslighting, denial; was always PA; he left me for her.

Posts: 132 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Free!!!
kmom2662
♀ Member
Member # 41494
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, January 31st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rbf--
I think that I always loved my H, even during years of problems between us and ultimately through the A. I had layer upon layer of anger and resentment at him for issues going back to our dating days. I made some extremely screwed-up choices because I felt that he didn't care about me, and wasn't capable of working it out in a healthier way. At d-day, we talked about everything with such intensity that the walls between us broke open.

We still have a lot of old anger between us, but for the first time, we are both absolutley convinced that there is a strong enough foundation of love that is still there, banged up and scarred, but there.


Me-- WW, 49
Him-- BH, 53 (bobf)
Married 22 years
OEA, chat/email with multiple people over an 8 week period, 8/2013-10/4/2013
D-day 10/4/13
Working on reconciliation

Posts: 69 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: United states
greengiant
♂ Member
Member # 41196
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, January 31st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ heartbroken0903 & JustDesserts

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

Affair sex is naughty, secretive, illicit, new. Hard to compete with that as a spouse.

That is what I thought... Strange, but hearing it is kind of helping me.


ME - BS - 33
fWW - 33
Married 8 years, together 15
3 kids: 6, 4 and 2
D-Day: September 30th, 2013
She had a 6 weeks A with a COW

Posts: 145 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Quebec, Canada
mightsurvive
♀ New Member
Member # 38794
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, January 31st (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again I am with greengiant. Sucks that there can be anything good about anything to do with the A but that is what I was thinking. There had to be some pay off for my H to have the A. Good to confirm as it helps get away from the feeling crazy and going over and over this question. (Now I will probably be on to the next one!) Also feeling better the last couple days after hearing your replies. Thank you.


BW 37-me
WH 40
Kids
Dday Dec 2011
Reconciling

Posts: 48 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: midwest
norabird
♀ Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, February 1st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all. I am so impressed by all the growth and effort evident here. I am not sure it will end up having much bearing on my situation, but I was really feeling the need to come here today.

My ex and I are absolutely over for right now and the foreseeable future; we tried to R, but wow was he not in a place to commit to that and there were a LOT of lies and continued cheating from him, while he kept justifying his actions to himself. It was clear at the second DDay that right now the situation is toxic for me and for him too and had to stop. But, I believe he was (however f'ed up this is) telling those lies because he kept loving me and couldn't let me go yet also wasn't able to be honest or deal with his issues. The OW involved (there were also ONS) was not a replacement for me but more like a symptom of his underlying insecurities. He says he still loves me even now, and I believe him even though I know right now that is not a factor that changes our situation. When we have talked since the last DDay, he says that maybe in the future we can have a chance again if he can fix his issues, and he is finally in IC (I think) after lying about starting it in false R; that if the day comes when he can be who I needed him to be he will reach out and I can answer or not.

I know I have to move on for the moment and not plan for this, and I know that each case will be different and will depend on the individual involved...but I guess I just want to know if this sounds impossible, or if people do sometimes finally get a wake-up call, work hard over a long time to understand and correct themselves, and then use their new, healed self to go back to the relationship they damaged and try to repair it. We had minor issues when we were together but nothing ever changed how strong our connection was and it still feels really strong even now. Part of me really wants him to be able to step up and figure everything out, for his own best interests of course but also for the possibility we can go back and give this another try one day. Obviously I would have a lot of conditions even if it comes to that but sometimes I think it might be possible given the effort on his part to really change while we are apart. Everyone's mileage varies...but who knows.

Sorry, I know this is awfully long--I so appreciate even just having the opportunity to get it all out.


Sit. Feast on your life.

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