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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for WS in R - how would you feel now doing and saying the things you did and said while in the A - telling OP you loved him/her, lying to BS, etc.

I couldn't do it now, it was stupid and I was lying to the OM for ego kibbles. It wasn't love it was lurve, it wasn't real, you know? I honestly cannot believe what a prize tw!t I was. I am deeply ashamed.


How would you feel today telling someone else you were in love with him/her?

I couldn't do it. It's incomprehensible.

Do you think that is a sign that the love has returned for your BS?

I don't think love for my BH ever went away. So no, I just think I'm more self aware. I know my boundaries and have stronger coping mechanisms.


How did you feel saying it during your A and then seeing your BS just minutes/hours later?

This isn't really applicable to me, BH was out the country during my A. It was over by the time he came home. But I waited three months before telling him, so I lied by omission every day for three months because I was spineless, scared and selfish. That was just as harmful as the A, I think. Despicable, no excuse for it.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spartan - It is possible she has genuinely forgotten the exact date. If it would help you, ask her to write a timeline. This may take her awhile, to get all the facts and dates right but the process of it might help jog her memory and enable her to be more specific.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

spartanburg65 - To the WWs, do you think it is possible for her not to remember? (as a disclaimer when we joined Facebook, she put our anniversary as the wrong date.)

Is it possible to forget the exact start date?

Well, all things are possible. The real question here isn't one of possibility, cause in theory, all things are possible but rather, the issue is whether or not this is really a matter of forgetfulness or whether the reason is something else.

If you really want to know about memories and lying, then visit the following sites and become overwhelmed on the issue.

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com

http://www.human-memory.net/index.html

In short, there are 4 primary reasons the WS may end up saying "I don't know or I forget" when asked for details.

1. They really did forget and in fact, they may have deliberately tried to forget. Hiding the truth from ourselves is common for the WS as facing the truth merely serves to remind us about our faults, our lies, our guilt. Conveniently forgetting serves as a form of self-protection.

2. They turn to the IDK mode in a misguided attempt to spare you from further hurt and pain. As the facts come out and we see you reeling in pain, again and again, we might try to shield you from further pain by minimizing information by either conscious or subconscious withholding of information.

3. Really truly forgetting. Turns out that short and long term memory really is a tricky thing. They why and how of memory is strange but short term information tends to become long term memory with repetition and reinforcement. Repeated events tend to stick around longer in the memory than one off events.

4. They're lying. Lying in order to gaslight a continuing affair, lying to minimize the extend of their transgressions and lying to shift blame. Sometimes, lying is such an ingrained habit after years of deceit, that the WS is unwilling or unable to speak the truth.

If you want the truth, then I would suggest being assertive but not overly aggressive in seeking the truth. Becoming defensive is easy when being confronted by accusation and anger. Create some guidelines for safe conversations that encourage opening up and being truthful.

If lying isn't the usual pattern of the WS prior to the affair, then trust may come easier with some verification but obviously, continuing and repeated lies would tend to make everyone question the truth. Its not fun when the question of "when is my WS lying" is rightfully answered by the statement of "whenever he opens his mouth".

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2. They turn to the IDK mode in a misguided attempt to spare you from further hurt and pain. As the facts come out and we see you reeling in pain, again and again, we might try to shield you from further pain by minimizing information by either conscious or subconscious withholding of information.

We BSs see this again and again - "I lied to protect you, to keep from hurting you, etc."

I personally think that the reality is that it's not about not hurting the BS. I think it's about not hurting or embarrassing the WS. I don't think the BS 'hurting' is the fear. I think the BS becoming enraged, leaving, or simply hating the WS is the fear. I think lying is all about protecting the WS and not at all about protecting the BS, and that this is just another lie told by many a WS.

Thoughts on my belief here? After all, if a person is begging for the truth, how does anyone think they are doing said person a favor by continuing to lie? And who gains from the lie, except the WS? Why continue to blame the BS for the WS's bad behavior?



The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1888 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
NikkiD
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Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, February 18th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I personally think that the reality is that it's not about not hurting the BS. I think it's about not hurting or embarrassing the WS. I don't think the BS 'hurting' is the fear. I think the
BS becoming enraged, leaving, or simply hating the WS is the fear. I think lying is all about protecting the WS and not at all about protecting the BS, and that this is just another lie told by many a WS.

Thoughts on my belief here? After all, if a person is begging for the truth, how does anyone think they are doing said person a favor by continuing to lie? And who gains from the lie, except the WS? Why continue to blame the BS for the WS's bad behavior?

Agree...they are already pissed...might as well come on with it in one blow vs many.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
SusanR
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Member # 29368
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS just doesn't answer my questions. he listens, he apologizes, he says he is ashamed and won't do it again but I heard that befote (a few times). Is he protecting himself or thinking he is protecting me? Would it be wrong for me to demand answers as a condition for R?

Posts: 1931 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Midwest
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you need answers you need answers. Most BSs need the answers to heal. My BH put it like this- it is a big puzzle that I have all the pieces to and he does not. If he didn't get all the pieces, it would be impossible for him to put it all together in his mind and be able to move forward and heal.

He is protecting himself. It's not his choice to decide how to protect you at this point. You're asking, he needs to tell.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37386 | Registered: Sep 2007
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry if this has been covered before.

This is a question for WSs that had a LTA that was both EA and PA.

When you visit sites where the LTA happened. Places you used to go with OP that were special for you both. When you visit those places now do you trigger? Do you think of the OP and what you did and enjoyed there?

Please be brutally truthful. PMs are welcome.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3432 | Registered: Sep 2007
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the WS...what did you struggle with?

I'm asking because I feel one would have to be a sociopath to not feel some type a way about the pain having an A can cause. I am currently NC with my WS. But I wonder from the WS on here, what types of feelings did do you go through? What do you struggle with the most?

Thanks in advance.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
FeelingLost13
♀ New Member
Member # 42504
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is my story. I am hoping to get some opinions from both BS and WS. Sorry it is so long.

We've been married for 11 years, together for 15, no children. In October, he began acting like I was not a priority. When questioned, he said he was unhappy with himself in many aspects of life (not taking the time to go to church, seeing his family, doing things to make me feel loved). He then said he felt guilty that we had moved around so much, were still not settled, and hadn't started a family, all due to his career. In response, I assured him that I was happy with our life and that he was worth the sacrifices I had made for him. I offered to help in any way that I could but gave him a little space. He started going to church occasionally and spending time with his family. I thought these were good changes.

My husband has a very stressful career, so this made sense to me. We have always loved each other, rarely fought, and were best friends who enjoyed being together. We've lacked passion in our M for a while, but I always chalked it up to stress, his exhaustion, and the mundane routine of daily life. We've never put work into keeping it going, at least on a conscious effort.

In December, I got the ILYBINILY speech. He says that he has felt this way for over a year but did not tell me because my father was ill for most of the year. He told me he needed time because he did not know if he wanted to work on our marriage. He felt that we had had 15 years to get it right. I asked if he knew he wanted a D and he said he no. Then said "we would get through this" and "it's going to be ok." He also said he wouldn't choose his career if he could start over.
I suggested that he quit his job, take a year or more off to work through this and let him have a break, and then to look for another job with a less grueling schedule.

I left to give him the space that he needed, at his request, though this was a shock to me. By this time, we had spent very little time together for two months due to his work schedule.

While I was giving him space, I became suspicious of an A. Shortly after, he went on a vacation with OW. He wouldn't answer my calls and angrily denied having an A via text, saying he just needed to get away and was with a friend. I found out that the OW worked with him and is single and 13 years younger. While he was still out of town, I consulted an L who recommended that I take half of our savings. He did not come home until 2 nights after he got back in town. By this time, I had taken the savings as advised.

When I confronted him about the A, he denied sleeping with her, saying that he has only kissed her and that she has nothing to do with the way he feels about our marriage. That none of this is about another woman. I asked him to end it and he would not commit to doing so. He said there was nothing to end, that he's not in a relationship, she's just a friend and he'd only been seeing her for 3 weeks. The next day he agreed to go to MC but couldn't promise anything. This ended up being an IC for him. That evening he said he could never see us being happy again, he has no desire to work on our marriage, and that he does not share my optimism that we can fall back in love. He did not want to be the one to end our marriage. He told me he thought I should leave him. I told him I would not file for D and that I wanted to work on our M. He refused to sleep at home that night.

I left the next day, planning to do Dr. Harley's PLAN B. I would have liked to have tried PLAN A but felt that he wasn't going to let me and what was the point if he would not sleep at our house or agree to business only contact with OW (which is the best I can hope for since he must give 3 months notice to leave his job.) I had already lost 15 pounds, and still couldn't eat or sleep. I didn't respond to the two texts that I got, but he did say that he would read the books I had bought by Dr. Harley and he thought he needed to read them before returning to the counselor.

About 5 days later, we had a counseling session scheduled, so I went to it; he did not, he took the OW to dinner. I ended up finding out that the OW had also had a 2 year affair with my husband's business partner. She also had a boyfriend at this time. Also, from what I could tell, I think he was staying with the OW while I was gone.

When I told him this information, he knew about the affair with his partner but was concerned with the timeframe of when it ended. He denied sleeping with her and told me he was going to call her to say that he couldn't be "her friend" anymore. She talked him out of it and I was later told what she said to do so was none of my business.

The next day I told him I couldn't be in limbo for much longer, that I was starting to lose my desire to work on our marriage as well. I tried to get him to spend his week off with me so we could try a little of Plan A, but he refused. I asked him if he knew if he wanted a D. He said yes. Then said that he didn't know if it was 100% the right decision or if he would regret it. Then he said he needed more time.

He contacted me a week later, furious over moving half of our assets, even though he knew this for at least two weeks. While I was out of town he actually cancelled my credit cards, changed the locks on my house, has taken our pet, and some other things. At that time, he had not filed for D. He told me that I would not get our pet or my stuff back until I put some of the money back.

The L advised me not to return any of the money. WH continues to lie all of the time. Our pet is at the OW's house and I think he is living there, though he denies it. At one point, I went to his work and he seemed to be in a panic that I was there. He does not want anyone to know what is going on, probably because he used to look down on his partners for cheating and he made his opinion known. He was pretty ugly again later that day, saying he just doesn't want to be married to me. He again told me that he was not leaving me for another woman. That he was leaving me because "it wasn't working and hadn't been for a while." I tried some DB attitude and he seemed to soften his cruel behavior and started to cry again and apologized for being ugly and bullying me later in a text, but has since filed for D.

At times, we can have a rational conversation, but he acts as if this divorce is better for me, that I deserve better than him, that I won't be tied down to him anymore. He says he doesn't know if he should be married at all and that I've gone above and beyond in our marriage. He doesn't think he'll find better than me. He acts like this D is for my benefit at times. Then (after our attorneys spoke) he sent me an irrational text blaming me for everything again. So I left him a note saying I can't be treated this way anymore and that we could divide our belongings when he could be civil.

I take the 50% responsibility for our marriage. This man is not my husband. He has always been very good to me. This cold treatment and disrespect that he has shown me is totally out of character. This is a person who was mortified by the behavior of his cheating partners and how they treated their wives. He is now adamant that he is nothing like them, even though he is having an affair, but that the affair has nothing to do with wanting a D.

I have so much trouble believing that him wanting a D has nothing to do with the A, because I now know that OW was in the picture, on some level, at least a month before the ILYBINILWY speech and probably at the time he blamed himself for being unhappy and not liking who he is. (They started being friendly over a year ago.) He still seemed conflicted the day that I confronted him about the OW's affair with his partner, since she tried to get his partner to leave his family.
It's hard for me to believe that he was planning on divorce all this time. We also had been making future plans. I know now that he told someone before the ILYBINILWY speech that we had discussed our marriage at length and decided, together, that D was the only option. This is not true. He has definitely rewritten parts of our M. He acts like he is on a search for happiness and that he wants us both to be happy. I was not unhappy before any of this and am pretty miserable now.

1. I have to respond to his petition for D. If I include the infidelity in the petition, does anyone think that might help start his exit from the fog?

As far as the A, I could see it lasting a long time, bc based on her previous behavior, I think she's a gold digger. He definitely exhibits foggy and addictive behavior, from what I can tell.

2. Any thoughts on exposure? He's in a small town where we didn't have a lot of friends. I also think that he is isolating himself from almost everyone but the OW. There are very few people that I can see trying to discuss this with him for me and I think he would be furious.

3. Any thoughts on MLC vs exit affair?

4. Can any WS give me insight into his behavior and comments? He has cried during most of our interactions. He avoids seeing me and talking on phone, preferring texts.

5. As far as D, I have asked if he is so emotional when we speak, that doesn't he think he's making the wrong decision. He tells me that it's just hard for him too.

6. Is there any credence to the fact that OW has nothing to do with wanting a D. There were several times over the past year that he has a perfect opportunity to bring up any issues with our M, but nothing like that was ever said.

7.Is there any hope for a M in this situation? Right now we aren't in contact since I left the note about being civil.

Any opinions, advice, or suggestions is much appreciated. Thanks so much. Again, sorry it's so long. I hope it gives all the background that is needed.



Me: BW-36
WH-39
No children
Together: 15 years Married: 11
DD: 1/7/14
He filed: 1/27/14

Posts: 13 | Registered: Feb 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the WS...what did you struggle with?
I'm asking because I feel one would have to be a sociopath to not feel some type a way about the pain having an A can cause. I am currently NC with my WS. But I wonder from the WS on here, what types of feelings did do you go through? What do you struggle with the most?

During the A? Nothing much. As horrible as that sounds, I was completely wrapped up in myself. BH wasn't around, he was away with work and I spiralled into my own little selfish world. I checked out of the marriage.
As soon as the EA became a PA I felt guilty. I cried myself to sleep every single night. The only way to make myself feel better was to get attention from the OM. Then one day after about two weeks I had a realisation while carrying the shopping from the car into the house. I stopped and said out loud 'WTF am I DOING??!' The fog lifted but by then it was too late.

After the A? I was weak, I didn't have the resources, coping mechanisms or boundaries to force NC with the OM. He hung around for months, threatening me and trying to force me to leave BH. Those were the worst months of my life, I have never felt stress like it. I hated myself for being so spineless and what it would do to BH when I told him.

It's hard to pinpoint exact emotions, it was all so messy and confusing.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Feelinglost - Wow! I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. Sending you lots of strength.

He is very, very deep in the fog. I'm sorry, I'm too new to all of this to know what advice to give you. I'm sure the BS in the JFO forum cab help with that.

I do happen to think that him saying he can't do better than you and that D is for your own benefit. That's guilt, so on some level he is starting to realise what he's done. I think the reason why you so often get anger and blame shifting so soon afterwards is because looking at the reality of his actions will be painful for him. He won't want to face up to the huge amount of pain he has caused you, so he shifts the blame onto you.

Again, I'm so sorry for what you're going through.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scared Witless

DDay Sep20,2013. EA/PA. H claims NC from that point forward. He has done ALL the things I see on these sites and have read in books - remorse, transparency, IC, MC, listening to me, talking, dealing with all my triggers and emotions, making sure I have what I think I need to get thru this, answering ALL my questions, etc

BUT, he was so good at lying to me during the affair, I'm scared to death it's going to happen again. How can I know? He says he loves and wants to work this out...but he said he loved me the entire A. We had date nights, and cooked together, and had a good sex life - during the A - so how do I know what to believe?

This is THE most painful thing I have felt in my entire life. Nothing compares. I don't want to go through months and months of this to find out we were in "false recovery" as they call it. It's TOO hurtful.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE someone tell me how likely it is he is telling the truth!! How do I know if he is truthful? How can I know if he isn't? i'm so scared that I will go thru the next year or so, hurting every moment, only to find out he has done it again, or that he never stopped. I'd do anything to avoid that.


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 122 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, February 19th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry you're hurting, Shayna.

You can't know for sure. I'm sorry that's not what you wanted to hear. He has betrayed you in the worst possible way and broken your trust completely.

You need to be watching him, looking at his actions. Is he being open and discussing everything? Do you have full access to emails, facebook, phone calls, bank accounts, text messages? Does he check in throughout the day if he's not with him? It is up to him to rebuild your trust by being an open book.

There is no way to know for sure. Complete trust is a leap of faith. You might need to trust but verify for a long time.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Shayna71
♀ Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenButTrying

Thanks, and logically I know I can't have a guarantee. Doesn't mean I don't wish I could!lol He deactivated FB DDay. It all started on there. I have access to everything, any time. He is really doing every single thing that the MC, books, and I say he should. He is the model of a perfect remorseful WS. That is kind of what troubles me. While the A was going on, he was great to me - planning date nights, being romantic, we were going to MC then because I caught him at the very beginning while they were just texting, and thought that is stopped then(NOT). So now, I don't know how to judge if things are good or not. I told him, "You know what your problem is? A truly honest person and a REALLY good liar look just alike. And you are a REALLY good liar" We had a great MC session last night and I do feel much better today. My mindset is, just believe him, jump in with both feet, accepting the risk that I might get burned - BAD. My trouble is, 2 days from now, or 2 hours from now, I will start to second guess that decision!


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 122 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shayna71 - BUT, he was so good at lying to me during the affair, I'm scared to death it's going to happen again. How can I know - so how do I know what to believe?...I don't want to go through months and months of this to find out we were in "false recovery" as they call it. ...Someone tell me how likely it is he is telling the truth!! How do I know if he is truthful? How can I know if he isn't?

Like your H, I was also guilty of telling and showing my wife that I loved her even while I was telling the AP that I loved her. LF struggled (and still does) with figuring out what was truth and what was lies. I think its very common for our BS's to question and doubt everything we say after d-day.

One way of knowing is to give him time. Time for his consistent, verifiable actions to support his words. Time for his shared counselling to prove to you that he is what he says he is. Shared counselling in this instance, BTW, means that his IC counselor is allowed to discuss his case with your MC counselor. This provides a check to his self-healing process and can be a way of feeling secure that he really is working at self-healing and is not just gas-lighting you.

Conversely, if you are struggling with providing him with time, you could try the polygraph route. Quite a few people here on SI have taken this step and while there are some pro/cons, it does seem that if you seek out a professional and reputable agency, the results are accurate. In consultation with the polygraph operator, you create a list of appropriate questions in order to determine the truth. It goes without saying that asking direct questions such as "did you have oral sex with the girl on Christmas" will be a much easier issue to judge than asking open ended questions such as "will you still be here in one year with me"?

Rebuilding trust is very difficult. Time can be your friend and at times, enemy in this situation. But in order to break out of the cycle of mis-trust, you have to give him the gift of time to prove himself.

HUFI

The journey between being an honest man and a two timing cheating bastard was not marked by a single solitary act of dishonour or a single lie. No, it was unfortunately marked by a whole lot of small "white" lies, a sprinkle of half truths and a pinch of trickle truthing. Hmmm, perhaps that now explains why I don't see an honest, truthful man in the mirror anymore in the mornings. Pity, what a shame. I kinda of miss him and I know my BS does. During their affairs, honest people learn to lie and liars learn to sound honest - HUFI

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 2:41 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FeelingLost13 - 1. I have to respond to his petition for D. If I include the infidelity in the petition, does anyone think that might help start his exit from the fog?

Yes and no. Filing for divorce was a very conscious act on his part and I am sure that while his motives for doing so are suspect, his actions arenít. The impetus to get out of the fog usually comes when the 180 is put into place, when the affair becomes public and messy and when consequences are put into place. But usually, in the fog, hiding and gas lighting the affair is the norm, not filing for divorce.

FeelingLost13 - 2. Any thoughts on exposure? He's in a small town where we didn't have a lot of friends. I also think that he is isolating himself from almost everyone but the OW. There are very few people that I can see trying to discuss this with him for me and I think he would be furious.

Iím of mixed view on this issue. On one hand, public exposure is just one of those ďconsequencesĒ of the affair that he has to live with but on the other, sometimes it creates more issues than not. Trust me, you probably arenít the only one that already knows of the A. Tongues are probably wagging already. Mind you, public exposure, such as telling all of the girls at the hairdressers, might not be smartest move either. There are a lot of thoughts on the issue of exposure and whether it helps or hinders. After all, once ousted, there is no privacy.

FeelingLost13 - 3. Any thoughts on MLC vs exit affair?

Does it really matter? I would think that a MLC would be easier to deal with as a singular event but exit affairs tend to indicate long term resentment issues that show a pattern of not being happy. Quite often, they are the choice of people who are passive Ėaggressive.

FeelingLost13 - 4. Can any WS give me insight into his behavior and comments? He has cried during most of our interactions. He avoids seeing me and talking on phone, preferring texts.

I would tend to think itís due to cognitive dissonance. He is finding it hard to balance his internal image with the reality of his world and so, he is swinging on a emotional pendulum. He feels a mixture of love and duty and obligation to you and yet, at another level, you are the impediment to his happiness and it creates conflicts internally. This comes out as shame and guilt but since its not followed by regret and remorse, it doesnít help you.

FeelingLost13 - 5. As far as D, I have asked if he is so emotional when we speak, that doesn't he think he's making the wrong decision. He tells me that it's just hard for him too.

See the answer above.

FeelingLost13 - 6. Is there any credence to the fact that OW has nothing to do with wanting a D. There were several times over the past year that he has a perfect opportunity to bring up any issues with our M, but nothing like that was ever said.

I donít know what made him start the affair and without a bit of self-analysis, he might not either. His reasons donít have to be related to any issues in the marriage at all. And they donít even have to do anything with the ap. For some people, the AP is just the most convenient person and for others, the AP is the key to what is happening.

FeelingLost13 - 7. Is there any hope for a M in this situation? Right now we aren't in contact since I left the note about being civil.

I would suggest that you read up on the 180 (in the healing library, yellow box, left side) and afterwards, consult with your lawyer as to your best approach. You have to keep in mind that filing for D is not the destination; itís a step on the path. That means that you still have some opportunities. But donít delude yourself that you can force him to pick R. While you have to take care of yourself and your own, he ultimately has to take steps forward for R to have a chance. That means getting coming out of the fog, if indeed he is there, and then ultimately finding himself on the journey of self-healing.

In the meantime, take care of yourself, drink and eat sensibly and reach out for support as needed.

HUFI

Unknown Poster - The mind of a WS is a very sordid, confused place during the preamble, main body, and post mortem of an A. Don't give us too much credit for rational thought
.


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor- This is a question for WSs that had a LTA that was both EA and PA. When you visit sites where the LTA happened. Places you used to go with OP that were special for you both. When you visit those places now do you trigger? Do you think of the OP and what you did and enjoyed there?

Hello Razor, sorry that you have to find yourself on this forum and this thread. While my LTA was only a EA (thank god for small mercies), the issue of special places is one that impacts me. A whole lot of my EA consisted of me creating mental images of special times/places that we had shared in the past. That means, for instance, that the Maitland River is a trigger as it has significant emotional ties to the AP and subsequently, its a trigger for me.

When we drive there nowadays, I find myself triggered, more often than not by guilt and shame as I put the trigger into perspective. In some cases, the trigger brings memories of good times forward (after all, that was the actual memory) but when that happens, I now remind myself that while that memory had a past, that's where it really belongs. In the past, not the present.

My past behavior would have been to revel in the bittersweet memories but nowadays, I make the mental shift and bring my wife's face into focus. I remind myself that it my practice of fantasy thinking that created my delusional thinking and ultimately, my affair. When I get triggered and mentally see a image of the AP, instead of focusing on the fantasy fueled feelings, I let the image trigger memories of my BS crying, of how stupid I was as I came to understand the how and why behind my affair, of my determination to never repeat this stupidity again etc. That stops things right in their tracks.

I confess that I used to do that fairly frequently in the first few years but more and more often, I find myself dis-associating from these triggers. And truthfully, part of that action is quite deliberate as I really don't want to keep the memories of the AP in my head. Those memories almost destroyed my BS and myself and so, I deliberately and proactively work at dis-association.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
pastthelies
♀ Member
Member # 39269
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RAZOR - When you visit sites where the LTA happened. Places you used to go with OP that were special for you both. When you visit those places now do you trigger? Do you think of the OP and what you did and enjoyed there?

When we go into the downtown area I make sure we never stay at a hotel where I stayed with AP. I don't think it would be good and I think the memories may flood back - don't want to test it. I just feel there are tons of places to stay in our city - pick a new one. I always have and I don't need to go back to one I stayed at with him just to test it out to see if I have thoughts. Why not make new thoughts and memories with the right person, my husband.

We have been to a couple restaurants I have been to with AP and the first time soon after NC day I did have thoughts of the fun times we had but when we went back again months later I did not.

The worst trigger I had was being in the same airport I was in the last time I saw AP. It was only a few months after NC and my terminal was right across from where we last said goodbye. That was horrible and I just kept thinking to myself - what a fool for being so upset that we had to leave each other, what a fool for believing in him and trusting him. When I was in that city I stayed in a different part so I didn't think about any of it the whole trip - I stayed busy. The airport is what got me.

I hope that helps.


Posts: 64 | Registered: May 2013
StillStanding1
♀ Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, February 20th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a question for fWS who were foggy for quite a while after Dday....

I often read about WS who can't remember things during the A. However, my H (who typically remembers everything!), has twice lately forgotten incidents between us (relating to sex) that happened during (false?) R. Sorry if TMI, but recently said "we should try X" which is something I tried after he suggested it last summer... He honestly doesn't remember me having done it. (X isn't any big deal - just a fun nuance to something we already do/did).

Another thing he forgot was his pissy reaction to a playful way I tried to initiate sex once during that same time period. He tried the same thing on me lately, being playful, and I was astonished because of his reaction when I tried it previously.

Also, during his "foggier" days of still feeling "love" for both of us, yet trying to R, he would say things like "I'm still emotionally attached to her" and "I'm not physically connecting with you" (although when we had sex, he would say it was great).

I know WS can say and do irrational things during the A. Would your opinion be that because he hadn't emotionally or mentally disconnected, that this was really still A behavior? It's just so confusing to me.

Even he is confused now. Really confused. It's almost like he was a completely different person, not just during the A, but in the post-mortem period. Now, he can't even identify with that guy.

Has any other WS experienced anything like this?


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 657 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
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