I just saw the question you added to your previous post.
The reference to fence-sitting in my profile refers to during the A when I was thinking of leaving my M for AP.
Married 2.5 years
Reconciled after divorce
"Someday you'll look back on all these days
And all this pain is gonna be invisible." - Hunter Hayes, "Invisible"
I believe that my WH A is either a MLC or exit A. I say MLC because he got a Harley last July (he is 43) & the weird behaviour started at the same time. Over inflated ego & hostility being the most obvious. †I say exit A because how could anyone who loved their S treat them in such a bad way. Plus the fact that he picked from the bottom of the barrel indicates to me how unhappy he was with me....
It sounds obvious but its important to note that these motives do not derive from the marriage or BS but rather, the roots arise from the personal coping patterns of the WS. As well, these motives, patterns and characteristics more often than not were well set before the marital couple met. The WS, at some level, needed to "play out" these patterns. The sad reality is for some of us, most, if not all of this acting out, or the motives for acting out, was well beyond our conscious awareness and more a subconscious behavior.
I find the above interesting & wonder if it applies to all WS? Reason I ask is that my†WH lays all blame on me. He's been unhappy for years & couldn't see himself growing old with me etc etc. I'm even responsible for the speed in which their A has progressed! The painful thing for me to deal with is that I don't think my WH will ever show any remorse as he denies he has done anything wrong as "nothing happened until he moved out & they were just friends who discovered they had feelings for each other" Mind you he practically moved in with her the minute he moved out of our home. Plus I know he stayed at her place 2 nights before he actually moved out! But like he says he did not cheat because in his mind our M was unsalvageable, he just forget to tell me that but I'm sure the she bloke OW knew it! Clearly, they are soul mates as they share so many common interests (cars, bikes etc) & work together so being together 24/7 seems to suit them just fine.
Is it possible that in time he will admit he has done wrong or is he justified in his belief that he did nothing wrong? It has been 4 months now, so I'm thinking the longer time goes on the less likely it is that he will acknowledge what he has done is wrong & therefore never feel any remorse. Part of this denial could be because he does not want to admit that he turned out like his cheating dad who he despises. Plus his ex cheated on him....
For those WS who left the BS for the AP, do you have any regrets for doing so? And if so how long did it take for you to realise this?
Do any WS believe that they partnered down when choosing the AP over the BS? My WH left me for hideous looking masculine type who is twice my size literally & I'm 12 years older than her!
I am moving on with my life. I accept that he is with the other woman and I am very grateful that he is out of my life. He is not a man that I trust or respect.
I don't think I will ever understand why he chose to have the affair but it is a pattern with him, so I no longer blame myself.
For WS who return to spouse and family, what was your motivation knowing you could also live happily with AP? Just wondering what motivates some WS and not others, especially long term happy M.
I think this depends on how quickly the WS comes out of the fog.
Me? I never wanted to 'live happily' with the OM. Essentially, I used him. I just wanted the attention. He wasn't special, he could have been any other man. I traded the sweet nothings and sex for the attention that I thought I needed.
I came out the fog after a fortnight. I didn't have the courage to go NC (OM kept threatening to expose the A) so the EA carried on for another few months but my heart was never with the OM.
My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13
Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.
He does Not understand what mean by work. I made sure to say the work he is doing is great although I feel like it is the bare minimum and he states that "is he suppose to keep a least or tell u! Defending himself. Friday he did no work until I mentioned something at 10pm so he read. Then said well why would you wait till the end of the day to mention it! Why should I have to ask? Why aren't I as important then all the sports stuff and app games? I also remember he spent at least 15 hours Monday -Friday speaking with her for over a year! "Now that takes a lot of effort" and That does not include weekends or week nights that she would come over! He told me I get at least an hour of work three days a week. That is coming here his guy and the liars meeting. Maybe reading the book here and there, possible liars board, speaking to me more on the phone then he has in the past and his thoughts! What about seeking out stuff? He does not go to the infidelity board anymore daily like he said he would. This is a pattern that I see always. Where is the extra mile the extra effort like you put into her? Where is that for me? Why should I have to put up with half ass effort. You did not give her a half ass effort! What you showed me this week was that I am not worth the effort! And she was! When r you going to get it and jump FULLY IN AND STAY IN! You keep pushing yourself out the door of this marriage and family by behaving like this! You dive in for a week then you slowly start to come out and do less and less! You did not do that with her! I can see it by the phone records! It is in black in white print from the phone company. You can not dispute that! So where is the real and permanent genuine effort towards me???
Back story is that he supposedly has now told me the entire truth of our marriage and fessed up to the past lies and current ones. As of three weeks ago. He is a compulsive liar. He goes to a meeting for that every week. Reading the book road less traveled and how to heal your spouse from an affair(this is completed). Shouldn't there be more? Or am I over reacting?
Thank you for your responses!
ncharge - My WH looks at "art nudes" on the computer every morning. I hate this and I will ask him to stop. But, is this considered a porn habit if it is not sexual acts? I think it is, because you know he is getting sexual kicks out of them. He has to be. But I am told that guys look and this is a mild thing that is OK. It isn't what is considered porn. What do you think?
Ah, the old "how do you define erotic photography as compared to just porn" question.
WIKI states that erotica has high-art aspirations, thereby differentiating it from commercial pornography but that definition is pretty loosey goosey. According to Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, in the defining court case that ruled on this matter, he felt that he could not "attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
In other words, defining it became a matter of community standards and that means, one man's art can be another man's porn.
Whether its defined as artistic nudes as compared to porn, it is a huge industry. Estimates say that its upwards of a 100 Billion dollars world wide industry and this includes public/private movies, chat rooms, fashion photography and about everything that can be done with one or more partners with or without toys! A search for the word sex on Google shows about 846,000,000 results while the word church only gets 250,000,000 results which sorta indicates the popularity of the word in the online world.
Anyhow, given that erotic material has existed from the neolithic era and given its prevalence in today's culture, its not surprising that your H looks. It is at a certain level, normal and natural but obviously, like all things, best done in moderation and with respect to everyone else.
Erotica and even porn can be part of a healthy and well-balanced sex life for a lot of individuals and even couples. Where and how it moves from being a positive to a negative in a relationship is highly subjective and is best left to the people involved to work out.
If you are uncomfortable with his habit, you do have the right to ask him to stop. Mind you, you have to understand that depending on the real reason behind his viewing habit, he just might end up taking this undercover (so to speak) and just start hiding it and lying about it. I would suggest that his viewing habit be raised up in IC or MC if you have that option.
Lethealbegin - He does not understand what I mean by work ... Where is the extra mile, the extra effort like you put into her? ... When r you going to get it and jump fully in and stay in? ... You keep pushing yourself out the door of this marriage and family by behaving like this! ... So where is the real and permanent genuine effort towards me? ... Shouldn't there be more? Or am I over reacting?
Its difficult for us to answer these question to the satisfaction of the BS asking. After all, we're not the spouse and we simply don't know the reasons, motives, feelings and thoughts that are within the head of the WS spouse. All we can go on is a gut feeling based on the post and our own experiences to guide us.
Should he be taking a fully pro-active stance? Yes. Should he be invested and supportive? Yes. Should he be able to show and prove his commitment? Yes.
But there is a huge gap between yes, he should and no, he doesn't.
Should is based on a textbook WS who is remorseful and willing to do the hard work to heal his broken marriage. Doesn't can often be the reality when the WS may still be foggy. Maybe he keeps pushing his way out of the door because in reality, his affair was a exit affair, designed to give him the opportunity to walk away. Maybe, he isn't committed 100% because he isn't committed. Maybe he just isn't in touch with his emotions and finds it hard to talk. Maybe shame and guilt are overpowering him. It could be that he simply doesn't have the life skills, the drive and capacity to see things easy and clearly. Maybe he is the stereotypical WS who needs to be shown each step of the way and who needs to be told what to do and when to do it.
I don't know that. Only you know your WS to the point where you can determine if its a matter of ability or desire.
The truth is the "difference between your expectations and his work" is partly based on the boundaries that YOU establish. The 180 is where you set the guidelines and the rules for R. If he doesn't or can't step up, you have to enforce the line in the sand. Otherwise, your rewarding him for a rather dismal performance. If he isn't doing the work that you need, you need to tell him that clearly and unequivocally.
He has blocked my ph no and The only contact would be emails which he is now ignoring ? I was getting through by vputting my ph on private but now has blocked that too . One minute he is working out things with me the next ignoring me ?? I don't understand .
He was caught 8 months ago and moved in with ow that same day ? Thought we had a good marriage had just had grand babies which he dosnt see either - we have 3 children 30, 28 , 27 - They also have no contact with him as they know ow background and was shocked - 3 marriages - 5 kids different partners . She did not have children to all marriages is also 6 years older than myself and 3 yrs older than him . . She is completley a different class from any of us and has had affairs before , I still don't know how long was going on I think a while he said a couple of months but don't believe him .
He is always angry ? And arrogant with me as if I did thus to him - why ? This just makes no sense - he has changed so much .
Will he come to his senses ? At all ? Did anyone treat their bs this way ??
WH - 53
2 grand babies - 11 & 8 months
M- 30 yrs
Ow - 56
D/d - 7/31/13
-H and I were married for 9 years.
-I was emotionally and physically abusive.
-I didn't fulfill his emotional needs
-H left to 'think' on weekends for one month
-H moved out
-I began counselling for my issues
-H confessed to cheating
-The affair is over
-H says he can never be married to me again, wants to be friends (he gave up on her a week ago, she was done a while ago)
-We had an awful sex life
-Slowly starting to spend time together (as a family, we have children)
-H is emotionless now
Have any of you WS experienced being victims of abuse?
I am willing to do all that I can to create a NEW marriage, a safe one.
Any suggestions on how to guide him in opening up to the idea of having me as a wife again (only, in a new way)? (through love, and time)
[This message edited by isthisforever at 8:01 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)]
naked women in artistic poses. He downloads his favorites. I hate this and I will ask him to stop. But, is this considered a porn habit if it is not sexual acts?
Absolutely yes! And I can pretty much guarantee you if he continues to look at this it will eventually escalate to porn. Especially if he has a history of past porn use.
Can any waywards translate? We have been in NC before and after that text exchange.
A week ago, around 11 pm, my ex husband texted me "Sorry."
Can any waywards translate?
I'll take a stab at it.
"I finally realize I was a total ass for cheating on you and ruining our marriage. I feel as though I should say something to you by way of apology, but I'm either a.) too conflict-avoidant, b.) too passive-aggressive, or c.) sorry but not sorry enough to give you a real, specific, thoughtful and detailed apology, so I'll just text "sorry" and hope that's sufficient."
I could be way off base, of course. I don't know the backstory or anything about him. If I'm right, I feel that it's lame. If one is truly sorry for something they've done, they should own it fully. JMHO.
There is a good thread on the Wayward forum that has some responses to your question.
I initially wrote "answers to your question" but I don't think there are any "answers." There are just snapshots of what we are thinking.
My WH is confusing me a little. Yesterday I told him that he never seems to want sex. I just dont feel like he DESIRES me, and he says that he is tired and sick etc etc. I told him that bothers me because he and OW would have sex once a week and he worked in the same job etc and he told me when he was confessing that "they held out as long as they could, but would break down and HAVE to have each other". So why isnt he like that with me?
So later last night, he again apologized for what he did and reassured me that he loves me.
This morning I tell him while we were laying in bed that I had had a bad dream, triggered and was feeling very depressed. He mentioned why I was feeling this way STILL and that he is hoping that I will "let it go" it was AGES ago.
One minute he seems like he gives a damn, the other minute he acts like it meant nothing that he betrayed me, and doesnt realize how deeply heartbroken I am.
Why does WH do this?
Affair Sex - I know a lot of people say it was awful but I cannot say that nor do I really believe it....I can say it was the best sex of my life and sometimes 10 - 12 times in a day. We could never get enough of each other.
...A is over and I am spending more time with my husband.... Our sex life is much better as well and we are enjoying spending time together.
...A is over and I am spending more time with my husband.... Our sex life is much better as well and we are enjoying spending time together.
But now your BS now has to live with knowing that HE will never be "the best sex of your life." Knowing that you will always look back at your AP as "best." How have the two of you reconciled that? How does a BS regain sexual desire knowing that they will always be the second best consolation prize? How does a WS enjoy it knowing it is sub-standard? "Enjoying spending time" seems to pale in comparison to "can't get enough."
[This message edited by krispy47 at 6:09 PM, April 10th (Thursday)]
Also, in his emails I found he had made every excuse in the book for it to not happen again to that person, but when she would email every few months, he sometimes responded "I'm too busy" or whatever and sometimes ignored. He told me that he did this to keep it from biting him in the rear by me finding out. Could this be true? He never went back (emails confirmed this that I found), so was he truly scared and regretful or filling me with crap again? Sorry for my harshness...it's just eating away at me and I am at the end of my rope. It's decision time for me I feel. Thanks a bunch!!
I assume your synopsis is correct... Which also leads me to believe I can expect more of this?
I'm not sure. When I apologized to my XH, after the D was final, I did so in an email (so he could read it if he felt comfortable and delete if he didn't) and enumerated very specific things I was apologizing for. I would never have texted him; to me that was crossing a boundary (even though he never told me not to text him) and I wouldn't have just sent a one-word text like you got---so I can't speak for your XH's state of mind as to whether he'll keep doing it. I'm sorry if his text made you uncomfortable. I hope he will show you more respect and courtesy in the future.
But now your BS now has to live with knowing that HE will never be "the best sex of your life." Knowing that you will always look back at your AP as "best." How have you reconciled that? How does a BS regain sexual desire knowing that they will always be the second best consolation prize? "Enjoying spending time" seems to pale in comparison to "can't get enough."
I apologize if I'm posting out of turn here, because this question wasn't directed at me. However, I guess I can sort of relate as I feel in some ways the same as the original poster of the part you quoted.
I agree that it sucks that anyone's BS has to know that they're not the best sex of anyone's life. However: do ANY of us really "know" whether or not they are the best? I have no damn clue whether or not I'm the best sex of my XH's life. That used to be something that would be important to me. It no longer is. One of the reasons it no longer is is because I believe it's a false sense of security in a sense. Call me cynical, but I think a lot of people tell EVERY partner that they're "the best ever" just to pump their ego. Or because it feels that way at the time. That was the case with me...it seemed that each partner I had seemed better than everyone else before. Maybe that was due to my own increasing self-awareness of what felt good, I dunno.
What if a hypothetical BS found out that their partner thought a previous lover---not an affair---was the best sex they'd ever had? Would it be just the fact that it was an AP that is bothersome or the fact that it was anyone?