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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
redsox13
♂ Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can answer question 5:
5. Does the WS truly forget their involvement with an AP given the emotional charge from the rush of attention? Is compartmentalization so powerful that it is forgotten or unretrievable?

The answer is almost never. BUT, my wife has PTSD from the A and cannot remember some things. She called the OM's BW and tried to break up their marriage. She truthfully doesn't remember it.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, but still hurting

Posts: 148 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 10:30 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

redsox13...

This thread is not for BS's to answer questions and/or interpret things how they see fit.

If you're not a WS...do not answer questions on behalf of anyone this thread.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196391 | Registered: May 2002
jamcray
♀ New Member
Member # 43783
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS and fWS - (please feel free to email or PM your replies):

if you acted under the influence of alcohol, why would you ever drink again? Especially if when you are not under the influence you don't make those type of choices?

Every time my WS has caused trouble, he has been drinking. Cheating, sexting, strip clubs, porn, etc.


Betrayed 2 years ago & still hoping...for what I don't know. Stuff still trickles out...

7 years together, no kids.


Posts: 14 | Registered: Jun 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 1:24 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PP, I think it was me you were referring to that mentioned an EA in another comment but didn't answer your question.

I had a PA for three weeks followed by a sort-of EA for several months. I can't answer your question because I confessed to my BH, I told him everything on Dday. I'm really sorry but I didn't feel able to answer your questions because the situation with your WS is very different from mine.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 1:30 AM, June 20th (Friday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if you acted under the influence of alcohol, why would you ever drink again?

My thoughts exactly, therefore I don't drink anymore aside from an occasional wine or two, with a meal in the presence of my BS.

Not saying excessive alcohol consumption was a causational factor in my cheating.

It was a symptom of the overall problem. I wanted to cheat, the alcohol removed the last vestige of integrity that was holding me back from what I wanted.


Me:WS,53
Her:BS,53 (WantToWakeUp)
Married 32yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.



Posts: 354 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to cheat, the alcohol removed the last vestige of integrity that was holding me back from what I wanted.

So simple but it took my FWW months to admit to this. She went out with the desire to sleep with OM. Her "friends" egged her on. The alcohol let her get over the last hump of caution.

Thanks for saying that so clearly.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your most welcome MindMonkey.
So simple but it took my FWW months to admit to this.
I also took months to admit/see the truth of it. In the beginning I was all "But I was drunk".

Putting it in perspective, I've been at this introspection, facing the truth of who I am and changing that person for over four years now. Still working on it. My user name ain't no lie

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 9:02 AM, June 20th (Friday)]


Me:WS,53
Her:BS,53 (WantToWakeUp)
Married 32yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.



Posts: 354 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do WS's have any idea how incredibly painful it is for their BS to hear that they got a rush/high/whatever you call it from the AP? Do you realize that-that in itself is just soul wrenching. That we(BS) that have been faithful/loving/committed and have taken care of them aren't the ones they get their "high" from? How does that truly make you feel?

I mean, I hear that all the time and read it. "It was like a drug." Is that supposed to make us feel better? My fWH never has a response for that. I find it devastating that he compared her to a drug. Even after 19months.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 10:00 AM, June 20th (Friday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 909 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: East Coast
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Somethingremorse: Thank you for posting on why the LTA went for so long. It is something my WH was trying to explain to me and your post clarified.

My questions is what happens to a Wayward when those walls get shorter with holes and your different parts of life start seeing each other? Is it traumatic? Do you have to figure out who you really are? Are you what you were in your marriage or are you more like what your were with the AP?

I have not read all of the ICR board, so if this has been answered please show me the way.

Thanks all!


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 273 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopefulmother, I think remorseful waywards do understand how devastating it is. But if that's the truth for a wayward then they need to tell their BS.

Not a single part of discovery isn't going to hurt. It all hurts. There isn't a way to sugar coat it or make it sound better, it's all gut wrenchingly painful.

I'm so sorry you are hurting.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
AndreaL
♀ Member
Member # 41522
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all the WS who take the time to answer questions.

My question is....to the remorseful WS, once a you see the devastation in your spouse eyes, how do you truly feel???


Me:35
Hubby:38
Kids ages: 2 and 5
Married: 8 years
DDAY: Dec 1 2013
Affair: 2 months EA and PA
Status: Separted. Sigh...I wish I could forgive 😞

Update: attempting to reconcile


Posts: 174 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Canada
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do WS's have any idea how incredibly painful it is for their BS to hear that they got a rush/high/whatever you call it from the AP? Do you realize that-that in itself is just soul wrenching. That we(BS) that have been faithful/loving/committed and have taken care of them aren't the ones they get their "high" from? How does that truly make you feel?

I mean, I hear that all the time and read it. "It was like a drug." Is that supposed to make us feel better? My fWH never has a response for that. I find it devastating that he compared her to a drug. Even after 19months.


Hopefulmother,
I'm very sorry you're hurting.

I truly believe the "high" is from the A not the AP. It's about the wayward feeling important, special, or validated. The wayward could have gotten this validation from within by acting with integrity and feeling good about who they are and how they contribute to the world, but due to brokenness most waywards see themselves and the world through a very distorted lense. We create a false reality in the A in which we feel like some character in a tragic romance novel. The high is never, ever about the AP. It is self delusion. The AP is a fun house mirror that reflects the image back of the wayward that we want to see of ourselves.

I do see that it is soul wrenching to think that your WS could get their "high" from some other morally bankrupt WS or AP, but the reality is the high is self deluded mental gymnastics, not louvre for or from the AP.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1380 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@seenow
My questions is what happens to a Wayward when those walls get shorter with holes and your different parts of life start seeing each other? Is it traumatic?
No, not really traumatic as such, frightening would be a better descriptor.

Do you have to figure out who you really are?
Yes, that's a must, otherwise how do you change?

Are you what you were in your marriage or are you more like what your were with the AP?
Neither really, in the marriage I was 'pretending' to be a good and faithful husband. While I was cheating, I was 'pretending' to be a no responsibilities single man.

The 'true' me is distinct from these two pretenses, although parts of each do contribute a large proportion to the 'true' me.

The key is introspection and work to bring about change, to be who you want to be.

For me, that's a genuine, good and faithful husband.

Hope this helps.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 11:30 AM, June 20th (Friday)]


Me:WS,53
Her:BS,53 (WantToWakeUp)
Married 32yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.



Posts: 354 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seenow, In my case it was traumatic to glimpse the reality of what I was doing. I was tearing myself apart. After d-day when I was finally able to stop hiding and protecting myself it was a relief to be honest even while it was painful and embarrassing. I wasn't like either persona: the fake, witchy wife, or the evil cheater who was resigned to going to hell for it. I started to carefully discover me. It was confusing. I had no idea what my feelings were about a lot of things because I was so good at stuffing my feelings and acting a certain way I was completely out of touch. My BH still says I have become an entirely different person. That sort of freaks me out but I don't feel any pressure to maintain this persona because I am just working on being authentic and making good choices and learning about myself. It's working pretty good so far.

[This message edited by knightsbff at 12:00 PM, June 20th (Friday)]


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1380 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
peoplepleaser
♀ Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all so much for answering my questions. I truly appreciate it. It was helpful.


WS: 38--2 EAs
BS: 38--me, faithful
DS: 5
8 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 512 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

to the remorseful WS, once a you see the devastation in your spouse eyes, how do you truly feel???

AndeaL, very, very small. I went through a lot of self loathing which is not helpful to personal recovery or R. It truly broke my heart to see all that I had destroyed much of it permanently.

I saw my husband in absolute anguish and I could do nothing to comfort him because I was the source of it. He could not trust me to comfort him; I had taken that away from him. I can't really adequately describe the horror of it.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1380 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
LostSamurai
♂ Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I haven't shared my pain in the physical since, or very emotionally with my WW since everything. She gets tired of me bringing things up.

I choose not to cry in front of her or anything because I feel like it would make me look weak in front of her... I have cried in front of her in church but she has showed nothing.

I didn't cry to get her attention either. It was very emotional day for me. I was wondering the fact that I don't demonstrate maybe the grieving in front of her does it make her less empathetic, or is it possible she is so disconnected from me she doesn't care anything for me?


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SWAT
What steps did you take to justify your affair? Was the marriage really that bad or did you make things up? When you saw how much you hurt your BS, why keep telling the lies? How do you do that to someone you are supposed to love?
I too focused on all the bad things in the marriage. My BH was very miserable in the same marriage I was in prior to the A. He would be cross with me or yell at me and the kids. I focused on his bad behavior and made myself into a victim. I was completely blind to my contribution to the mess that was our M, and I was definitely not easy to live with.

My BH was very likable outside of our family. Everyone viewed him as a nice guy and a very good man. He has tried very hard to live his life in accordance with his faith and his values and has avoided many of the mistakes I have made in my life time. I was his one and only. He really had only had one girlfriend prior to me. I have struggled since my teenage years and done things that I still carried a lot of shame for.

We had conflict over my prior experiences. My BH felt threatened, hurt, and just worried that he didn't measure up or that I was reminiscing about prior lovers. I felt judged, shamed, and that since I could not go back in time and change my past I would never be good enough. I think since the AP wasn't "perfect" (duh, he was cheating) I felt we were more equal. Keep in mind I'm describing my very jacked up distorted thinking here.

I held a few things back on d-day and did give some TT. It was due to fear. I saw how much pain I caused and it felt like he just couldn't take any more at the time. I was also afraid of losing him. I thought I was protecting him and myself. It was driven by fear. It was only after reading and posting on SI more that I truly understood I HAD to let go of the outcome and give him what he asked for, the truth, all of it. It was very scary to do. It feels like hammering in the final nail in the coffin. And for me as the wayward inside I'm screaming, "I know better now, I will never do anything like this again!" But to him, receiving new information is a fresh stab to the heart. The only way I could deliver it was to spit it out in a hurry because it felt like what I would imagine jumping out of a plane would feel like. You know the jump and the fall won't kill you, but the landing might.

I don't know if I rambled and sounded like I'm justifying what I did. I absolutely do not justify it. I'm just trying to explain only a few of the things that I told myself to justify it at the time. I allowed my very low self worth to be a justification because "I would never be good enough for him anyway...." It's not sane. And no matter what justifications we waywards try to explain to a BS who has never cheated it will never sound sane or reasonable because it's not. I don't think you can understand unless you have similarly believed your own twisted thinking.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1380 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostSamurai
I didn't cry to get her attention either. It was very emotional day for me. I was wondering the fact that I don't demonstrate maybe the grieving in front of her does it make her less empathetic, or is it possible she is so disconnected from me she doesn't care anything for me?
How does your WW react to stress in general? Is she in IC?

My reaction was kind of the Scarlett O'Hara thing, "I'll think about that tomorrow." Run away. Don't *see* anything stressful or uncomfortable and it will go away. I didn't know what to do with it.

At first when my BH would get emotional I would be like the deer in the headlight because I had read here that WS should not cry in front of their BS because we need to be strong, step up, take their angry and pain, and support them, so I froze and tried to empathize by apologizing while holding my emotions in check. This came off as cold to my BH. During one of our talks when I finally broke down I apologized after for crying because it's not supposed to be about my pain, but his. He told me that he needed to see that and that we could support each other. It actually changed his attitude toward me when I started crying and I was a little freaked out worrying that I was manipulating him with my tears. Trying to figure yourself out and be authentic is all sorts of scary and constant second guessing yourself.

Anyway, after I understood that we both needed to see each other's authentic emotions I was able to hold him while he cried and cry with him. He has cried only very few time ever but it was easier to be able to feel my feelings while comforting him without worrying that he would be manipulated.

It's possible your WW has been stuffing her feelings for so long that she will need help in being able to get in touch with them (IC).

It's possible she is scared to death and doesn't know what the right way to act is so she is avoiding entirely.

It's possible that she has decided to remain a broken human being devoid of compassion because that is more comfortable to her and she doesn't have the courage or desire to change.

SI has been the single most helpful thing in helping me to see my dysfunction and start on the pathway to a healthier me. I'm not sure if your WW is on SI and I can understand if you don't feel safe sharing it with her but it has made all the difference to me.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1380 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also want to thank the WSs for all these very thoughtful answers of recent days. I have the same questions as Sal and SWAT above.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 841 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
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