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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 8
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Brokenbuttrying and KnightsBFF. I hope at some point that I will come to terms with that part of the A. Thank you for pointing out that it is really the A and not the AP. I know rationally that it could have been anyone. He tells me that all the time. It is just hard to remember that, because we BS have a constant mind movie that reminds us of how our WS were during Dday and the immediate months after. At that point it was all about the AP.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 8:49 PM, June 20th (Friday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 9yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 933 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
limbohurts
♀ New Member
Member # 43818
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just wonder if there is a WS who can give me some insight, maybe some hope. When I discovered my husband LTA, I asked him to move out because he would not commit to working on the marriage. Says he has been unhappy for years and that we are just too different. I have made it clear to him that I want the marriage and I am willing to work on it. He isn't sure that is what he wants. He refuses to go no contact with the OW. This is mostly emotional affair (also physical) as it is long distance and they see one another once a month or so. We are both in IC and couples counseling, but not really getting anywhere. He wants to spend time with me and the family to see if I can and have changed, but that is hard for me to do knowing he is having an affair. I feel like I am being tortured and losing all of my dignity, yet I can't seem to give up on my family. Any thoughts on how I should move forward?


Me BW
Him WH LTA
Married 18 years
2 kids
Separated since March 2014

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2014
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

limbohurts...

I strongly urge you to implement the 180 on him. This can be found here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

He *is* torturing you by placing the blame in your lap. He's in an affair. He has no reason to stop cake-eating as long as you're holding yourself responsible. You are NOT at fault.

Please, do not let him do this to you. Until he stops all contact with the OW, you will continue to feel hopeless.

Also please post on General...many BS's will help you get through this. I'm so sorry you're hurting.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197314 | Registered: May 2002
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Limbohurts,

He is cake eating. Not just eating, stuffing great handfuls of cake into his greedy mouth.

Look after yourself. YOU are the priority right now. Not him, not his wants or his needs. You deserve to have a husband that is all in with you. If he's not, then you're out. Read the 180 in the healing library and start it today. Heal yourself, do things that make you happy.

I'm a MH so I hear you when you say you can't give up on your family. But at what cost? Yourself? Your happiness? Don't sacrifice yourself for an unremorseful wayward guy.

The 180 is a great tool for healing yourself. It also has the added bonus of SOMETIMES bringing the WS out of their fog and back into the M. But not always so don't count on it. Either way, with the 180 you'll be ok whatever the outcome.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1232 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
limbohurts
♀ New Member
Member # 43818
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you broken and deeplyscared.
I have read about the 180 and go in and out. I have filed for D and given him the papers. Do you think I should continue the couples counseling with him? We have only had 1 session so far. What about family time? This is so hard....


Me BW
Him WH LTA
Married 18 years
2 kids
Separated since March 2014

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2014
Merida
♀ Member
Member # 42437
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please explain how compartmentalization works? I am struggling with my WH saying he loves me and wants to stay married given what he's done to deliberately destroy our marriage.

When I ask how could he have allowed himself to do X, he says "that's the compartmentalization. I shoved it into the box."


thanks in advance for descriptions, feelings etc. I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around this crap


"The Will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

WH is katumus and I am not reading his posts but we talk a lot and working on listening better!

BW 45
WH 46

married 17 years
3 kids


Posts: 190 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Maryland
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Limbohurts,
I agree with everything DS and BBT said. Also, IMO couples counseling is more harmful than helpful right now. You can not work on your relationship while he is in an A. I would hard 180 and both continue IC with counselors familiar with infidelity and his counselor should be hard lined enough to tell him the truth about what he is doing. You can't control his IC though because you need to detach and focus on working on you.

As you get stronger and realize you will be ok with him or without him he may extricate his head from his ass and start working on him. You focus on you. He has to own his own mess and work on fixing himself not changing you to suit him. You can get yourself healthier for you and the kids and possibly to be a good partner for someone else in the future but first you have to heal from the damage he's inflicted on you. Work on the relationship (if he ever becomes remorseful) will have to take a back seat to your healing and making you feel safe.

Everything is backwards right now. You a worth so much more than he is giving you.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1411 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
limbohurts
♀ New Member
Member # 43818
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I am worth more and don't even recognize myself in the mirror right now.
I made many mistakes in the marriage and had personal issues that I never dealt with.
He's wrong for having the affair, but I contributed to the broken marriage more than my share and now I have to live with the consequences. It sucks.


Me BW
Him WH LTA
Married 18 years
2 kids
Separated since March 2014

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2014
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Limbo,
It's good that you own your part of the M problems, BUT The A and his crappy attitude, blame shifting, and refusal to own his shit is NOT a consequence. Loss of intimacy and breakdown of communication is a consequence. His poor coping mechanisms and choice to turn away rather than toward you to work on the M problems is all on him.

I'm really sorry you're hurting. I wish we could open his eyes to his brokenness and destructive choices. Protect yourself from further hurt. Detach and do things for yourself and your kids. What can you do that is only for you today?

((((Limbohurts))))


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1411 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
OnTilt
♀ Member
Member # 34140
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know most WS here cheated before they ever found their way here, and so may not have recognized their 'wayward' thinking before actually becoming a wayward.

Question for WS and in particular MH: if u were given 20/20 hindsight and recognized you were thinking like a wayward before becoming a wayward, what would u have done differently?

My wh is not remorseful. At a minimum he had what I call several 'flirtationships' (EA) behind my back with women friends from the past. He has never been honest with me about - partly my fault because I didn't walk away. I gave up trying to get the truth because I was exhausted. Started a form of 180 to detach and don't even feel I am in love with him anymore.

On the contrary, after sifting through the past 15 years to figure out just WHO I married, I'm not even sure I like him. I won't go into everything, but I am convinced he does not love me or he wouldn't be Such an ass, he I believe is emotionally abusive as evidenced by all the TT and gas lighting and I can honestly say that my marriage has sucked and it took him having an EA for me to finally wake up.

But can u see where my thinking is going? Because on the one hand I really believe he has been a total asshole to me for 15 years, and I find myself thinking about cheating. I'm thinking like a wayward. How do I know if I'm not just rewriting history?

And I have ZERO expectations of a change in the way he is. It is not going to happen. So D should be the natural step but WTF? Why do I and the kids have to suffer the consequences of HIS behavior?

So my thinking scares me - I am not going out and looking for anything. I am not an easy person to approach and it takes me awhile to warm up to people. I've always had strict boundaries. But if someone did manage to somehow break through my wall, I am worried it would all come tumbling down. Because I WANT a friend, a male friend.

I am thinking like a wayward! I feel justified but then again I can't imagine going that far. That isn't me! But that's what I hear WS say here all the time.

So if u could go back in time and were able to foresee where your thinking was headed, what would u do?


BS(Me), WH(Him) in our 50's
Status: I'm giving up on him

Posts: 379 | Registered: Dec 2011
peoplepleaser
♀ Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again, I want to thank those who answered my questions. It is helping me wrap my brain around ideas that don't make sense right now. WS has committed to finally writing down the story of the EA I have little information about, but that was 6 weeks ago (4 months after I was promised I would be given "the worst" of what she did) and with the caveat that she "can't remember because it was so long ago."

What little I do know is that both the AP and her BS told me that WS suggested a quickie in a closet in one of the texts. Both AP and WS claim no physical contact, but I'm having a hard time believing that there was a text about a quickie before any physical contact. Is that too intrusive a question to ask other WS's? I'm only familiar with romance as it occurs in single people, so I'd like to know if this happens during an EA without PA, especially with the number of texts and phone calls (4000+ in 6 weeks) with ample opportunity during that time period to meet. Can anyone respond to this?

Also, because I got such bad TT (I only got expansions to information I discovered after fielding direct and outright lies with tears and cries for compassion) I am considering a polygraph. What are your experiences with this? If you've had one, was it accurate? Did you continue to lie even though the polygraph revealed it? Did it suggest you lied when you didn't?

Thanks in advance.


WS: 38--2 EAs
BS: 38--me, faithful
DS: 5
8 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 557 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On Tilt,

You sound similar to me and what I ended up doing. I always had strict, or what I considered strict at the time boundaries. I knew what my H (HL) was doing at the time and rug swept it. I should have left. It isn't that you and your children are paying the price, it is that you are standing up for yourself and making a decision to say you deserve better. If your H will not go to IC and work with you on the M, then you have no other choice than to D. When you have gotten some IC as well and done some healing, and you are D, then you can look at dating. Don't destroy you, because he is making bad choices. Believe me, it isn't worth it.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4757 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ontilt,
If I could go back knowing my faulty thinking was leading me to an A I would shore up my boundaries and get myself to A good IC yesterday! Keeping my boundaries in place would protect me and those I love while I worked on taking responsibility for my own happiness and focused on working on myself.

Sometimes one partner getting healthy can break bad patterns in a relationship. If focusing on yourself and your kids doesn't clue him in to changes needed in himself it can help you become strong enough to make the changes you need for yourself and your kids to be happy.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1411 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
limbohurts
♀ New Member
Member # 43818
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been advised by most that my WH has left me for the OW even though I don't seem to get it yet. Did any WW/WH have difficulty leaving the OW/OM? Did it take you a while (months) to come to the decision to do so? And, was your BS/BH still waiting there for you and willing to R?


Me BW
Him WH LTA
Married 18 years
2 kids
Separated since March 2014

Posts: 37 | Registered: Jun 2014
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SlowUptake and Knightsbff - Your replies did help and I really appreciate it. Thank you.


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please explain how compartmentalization works? I am struggling with my WH saying he loves me and wants to stay married given what he's done to deliberately destroy our marriage.

When I ask how could he have allowed himself to do X, he says "that's the compartmentalization. I shoved it into the box."

I realize it doesn't sound possible for a person to behave this way. But I am living proof.

I really think that I thought I was keeping the two things separate. I never stopped loving my BW. I'd just be unhappy with my life. Instead of facing it, I'd shove that unhappiness aside and engage in the A. After engaging with AP, I'd feel so guilty and awful, that I'd shove that aside to live my "normal" life.

I really thought I was living two different lives. When I was engaged in my A, I didn't think I was affecting my M. I'd tell myself things like "so long as I am only engaging in the A on 'my own time', I wasn't hurting anyone." Or, for example, I'd not talk to AP during the kids events or on vacation.

The thing is, I know now it wasn't separate. When I got more and more compartmentalized, I'd be more and more separated from everything around me. This was a downward spiral.

Compartmentalization is a coping technique. Lots of writers say this. At best, it is what helps trauma docs or firefighters put the horrors of their jobs behind them and live with their families. Then there are people like me, who use it to escape really looking at myself and fixing my problems.

I don't know if this helps explain it. My BW used to feel like stabbing me with a pen every time I said "compartmentalize." I believe that it is a sincere attempt to explain what was happening in our minds.

As a postscript, in my personal recovery, I realize the dangers of compartmentalizing. I really try to go in the opposite direction. I try not to put anything to the side. I realize that everything I do reflects on everything else. Just like flirting or withdrawing from life, compartmentalizing is too tricky of a path for me to even go down.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 489 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ontilt

So if u could go back in time and were able to foresee where your thinking was headed, what would u do?

I do whatever it took to get help for me and my M.

Here's the thing -- I'd do it as much for me as for my BW. Right now, I can see just how unhappy I was back then. Before my As. I was unhappy -- I would have trouble getting up in the morning. Every little action by my BW might be innocent, or it might be proof that she didn't care and that my life was just going to rot away. This wasn't the actual truth, but it was the process that was going on in my mind ALL THE TIME.

Once the As started, it was worse. All of those conflicts remained. Plus, I had the worries of being a liar, breaking up my family and my AP's, losing my job, my friends, my place in the community.

I hope that I am painting a bleak picture, because that's what I was during those days. So would I try to change all of that? Hell yes.

As for my M, I'm in a little different spot. I know my M is worth saving. It was good once, and now is good again. I wish I would have fought to make it good, instead of just giving up. I wish I would have fought for myself, instead of giving up on me, too.

Live purposefully and honestly. Whatever path that takes. If it is R, that's OK. If it is D, that's OK too. It's up to you. If you lie and cheat yourself, then you and your kids are suffering from the situation that your WH put you in.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 489 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

seenow --

My questions is what happens to a Wayward when those walls get shorter with holes and your different parts of life start seeing each other? Is it traumatic? Do you have to figure out who you really are? Are you what you were in your marriage or are you more like what your were with the AP?

First, you should know that these sorts of questions are like therapy for me. It forces me to look at myself and explain what I see there. So thank you for helping me.

For me, I was mostly "good" once. I see how these walls got built up over the period of a few years time. I know that I grew up with the "tools" to make these walls -- depression and withdrawing and avoiding conflict were always things I turned to. But I could always rebound without harm. I know now that I never really had the understanding of myself to keep myself from building these walls. It really got worse over the period of probably 4 or 5 years for me.

Now I am really ashamed about what I let myself become. I do recognize a large part of myself from who I was before my slide started. But now I have some extra tools to work with. Instead of merely recovering from the depression, I am trying to avoid going into that hole altogether. Instead of getting upset at something my BW does, and then talking through it later (which I never did -- I just let it build up), I am learning to look at things with perspective and not get upset in the first place.

So yeah, it is very traumatic to see what I became, and how much I let slip. At the same time, I use that to remind myself of how bad it can get, and to push myself to be better.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 489 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

somethingremorse - it helps me too, to understand what the heck happened in my M. Thank you. It also gives me some hope.


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
OnTilt
♀ Member
Member # 34140
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tired girl, knightsbff and somethingremorse, thank u for your replies! I am working on myself and am in a much better place than a couple of years ago. I am doing what I enjoy, and I have have been brushing up on my skills to get better employment. Well, brushing up is putting it lightly as I have not worked in 15 years and my degree is in computer science, so I have a LOT of work to do. But I LOVE it and am looking forward to working in this field again. I was a little optimistic about how long this would take me, estimated 6 months, but think I'm still looking at another 6 months of studying/learning before I am ready.

At that point I should be able to get a decent paying job and whether I stay or D will be in a much better position either way. But D now? Can't as finances are way too bad and literally would put me children and wh in poverty. That's what I meant about kids suffering consequences.

Wh HAS noticed my change, and I guess is trying in his own way. I realize I've been disrespected for a long time and I just don't put up with it anymore. I no longer worry that this may 'drive' him away. He put me down for so long then had EAs and brought me to my lowest point. I don't lay all the blame on him because I had a part in that I put up with it. But I lost myself in the process

But I've gotten back up and I'm the woman I was before marriage and kids and while I never wanted my marriage to end I don't see it continuing the way it is. Yes I've seem some positive change in him but I don't trust it. I think below the surface he is stewing I sense it and don't think he can hold back

And true to form he let slip two comments the other day that were sarcastic is just plain BS. Said I don't understand his wants and needs, and that it's always all about you (meaning me) and always has been.

Well I saw RED! How f'ing dare he! Who does he think he is? And think that is what sparked this crap in my head because it's HIM that couldn't care less about what I want or need and it's always been about him!

I hate to say this but he really needs a good dose of his own f'ing medicine!


BS(Me), WH(Him) in our 50's
Status: I'm giving up on him

Posts: 379 | Registered: Dec 2011
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