I also don't necessarily think members are giving other members a free pass for this. Not all anyway. I think what is being offered here is understanding.
I come from an abusive childhood. My stepfather actually shot my mother in the head..she lived..and took us back to his home. This man raped me when I was 15. I have been in abusive relationships, of some form, all my life. I have never raised my hand to anyone..ever..and I don't spank my kids. But I did slap him on dday. This man who had hit me in the past..kicked me..etc..and I never hit him back. But I slapped him on dday. I have asked myself why did I do that..*then*..when I had never done anything like it before. my only explanation is that I lost my mind. I honestly believe I went insane that day..temporarily..somewhat..because I still suffer from PTSD and MDD(both diagnosed after dday). I know I lost hours that day..hours that I can't account for my time..I can't remember...I couldn't talk for a few days. I couldn't eat. I did very little, other than laying on the floor and howling like a wounded animal.
I truly believe I reacted, without thinking. To compare a slap on dday to cheating..well..is ridiculous,IMO. To cheat,as we all know, there is some forethought. Even if it's a sudden,unexpected ONS..no one slipped and fell in a vagina. Having sex is,well, somehow of a process...there is attraction,removal of clothing,finding a place to fuck,etc,etc. Lots of thought goes into it..even though it is such a thoughtless act. My one slap was not premeditated. It wasn't something I thought I would do,then did it. Finding out your husband..YOUR HUSBAND..has been offering..and giving free blow and goes on craigslist will fuck your mind up..I promise. I remember asking if he had come home and kissed me after the one BJ I found out about..and he said yes...I asked if he went in to kiss our kids good night(mind you, he had just come home from giving the BJ)..and he said yes..and I slapped him. In that moment I did not think. I reacted. Looking back, Im guessing it was because he kissed my babies with his mouth..that had just swallowed some random guy's cum. He exposed not only me..but my babies.
Was it ok? Of course not. I AM ashamed..and I have apologized. I am not making excuses..though some may see that in this post. I am explaining where I was in that moment..and why I may have reacted the way I did. Explaining..not excusing.
And I am sharing this because I do understand. Understanding and saying it is ok are two different things.
[This message edited by confused615 at 10:39 AM, December 10th (Tuesday)]
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
I truly believe I reacted, without thinking. To compare a slap on dday to cheating..well..is ridiculous,IMO
Why then, is there nobody here really saying it would be understandable if a man slaps/hits his wife on D-day when he discovers her cheating? The biggest reason I don't buy anybody's arguments on why this is somewhat excusable, is because I don't see them offering the same excusability to a man who hits a woman...under in any circumstance, including that he might be smaller than her, she hit him first, she said "go ahead and hit me" or any other excuse there could be out there. It is just not socially acceptable in our society for a man to hit a woman for any reason, including the shock and momentary "I lost my mind" that happens when we find out about cheating. But women are a little bit more allowed to momentarily lose their minds than men. (I'm saying that in jest because I absolutely don't think this double-standard is right).
I don't really care if you "buy" my story. I wasn't trying to "sell" it. You are not me. You have also commented before..to me..that you would never be with your WH if you found out he did what mine did(but you said you meant no offense,of course..just a little judgment passed,that's all).
Im not going to get into a debate about this. My post was to offer understanding. That's it. Not to justify or excuse. If I continue to post on this thread, I have a feeling I would need to defend myself,and honestly, I don't need to be judged by anyone for staying with my husband. BS's are judged by society for staying with their spouses after they are cheated on. I don't need to be judged here..in my safe place.
_sorry for the slight t/j.
We do not say it because we do not believe an affair should ever be an option. It is wrong period. End of story. We do not make excuses and tell the WS to not be too hard on themselves, because we understand what *drove* then to it. We expect our partners and fellow man/woman to behave better and make better decisions. We are not thoughtless, impulse driven animals. We have intelligence and impulse control. We are able to control our actions. If a male BS is expected to keep his hands under control when finding our about betrayal and TT, then we have to hold a female BS to that same standard, or are we saying because we are women we are *emotional beings* and cannot be expected to control ourselves? I believe that would be the same thinking that we do not want a female president with their finger on the button as they could be emotional from PMS. It is bullshit.
I am not saying a BS should hate themselves forever, I am saying they should have remorse, guilt and the desire to dig into finding out why they allowed themselves to cross that boundary, especially if they hope to reconcile with their WS. If I were a WS I cannot imagine wanting or being able to reconcile with a person that hit me and was not remorseful, but they felt nothing. I would not feel safe with that person. And you cannot say they did it because of the stress and hurt of the information they received from the WS, because most BS do not hit under the same circumstances. We say all the time when people are in bad marriages that it does not give the WS an excuse because the BS was in the same marriage and did not cheat. The WS needs to go deeper to find the *why*.
Anybody that hits another person needs to get therapy to find the *why*.
ETA: You may believe it is understanable for a male BS to hit his wife, but I believe if a male BS came to general and posted a story about hitting his wife, the general consensus would be it is abuse and the wife should call the police and a shelter.
I also think is a female WS posted in the wayward section that her BH hit her, we would be crawling all over one another telling her he was wrong and to protect herself.
[This message edited by Kierst13 at 11:06 AM, December 10th (Tuesday)]
I'm not proud of it. I don't feel good about it. But it took me a long, long time to be sorry about it. He put me through so much hurt, so much TT, so much blame shifting, just so much..I was so hurt, I wasn't sorry at the time.
I know it wasn't right and I'm sorry now but I honestly wasn't for a long time.
Married 27 years. Together 29.
3 children 24, 21, 14
OW sex addict and romance addict according to MC.
Thank you for sharing Jesu, I'm sure it was not easy.
THANK YOU, Kierst13. What you posted makes perfect sense and is exactly how I feel about it.
EXACTLY. Well said, Bobbi_sue. It's a double standard, and it stinks!
It is a human value one would hope to not be violent toward another human being. An A is most definitely a form of violence. On the heart. Maybe even on the soul. Only it is often justified/rationalised by the perpetrator in any number of ways. 'I was in pain (lonely, unhappy etc.)' or 'IT (the A) was a special circumstance (soul-mate schmoopies)'. Thoughts like these are what made it possible for the WS to transgress their own values around violence; to cross the uncrossable line. It takes a fair bit of work for the WS to see the hideousness of those justifications and just accept their action as wrong, period.
A violent physical act (such as hitting, throwing, punching) can also be justified/rationalised 'I was in pain (devastated, betrayed etc) and 'it was a special circumstance (he/she had betrayed me!)'. This makes it possible for the BS to transgress their own values around violence. Neither are ok, and IMO work is needed to get to the place of seeing that it was wrong, PERIOD. In both instances it is important to be responsible for one's own actions, and justifying, excusing, understanding takes away from that process.
In no other way am I saying they are the same thing. The impact is not the same, the ramifications are not the same, the pain is not the same. But in terms of values and the concept of self-responsibility, they are definitely connected.
I am a woman and a former kickboxer. If the roles were reversed, and I did anything close to what WH did, and then said the things that WH said to me about it, I would absolutely consider one good slap his absolute right.
Is this totally wrong? Yup, it is, and there's absolutely no legal, academic or rational justification for slapping someone, so I won't even try. I could try to spin some crap about how at some point, cheating becomes abuse and a slap is an expression of emotional self-defense. But I won't, cuz that's nonsense. Violence is not the answer. I have zero ground to stand on. But I'd be lying if I pretended that I didn't think - in an illogical, emotionally-driven way - that you get one slap after discovering infidelity (but that's all you get), preferably while wearing elbow-length satin gloves and smoking a cigarette. It's Hollywood infidelity tradition.
[This message edited by Thessalian at 1:19 AM, December 11th (Wednesday)]
7 years of double-digit ONS, LTA, hookers - the works.
First found out: August 20, 2013
Whole truth: January 1, 2014
Is it wrong, well yes ofcourse it is. If I cheated on my wh would I not want him to hit me... ofcourse. But would I really hold him against it... no.
I was more sorry the day after than I am now. Once off instant violence of slapping is not acceptable, premeditated cheating is a systemic plan of attack. Obviously there are different levels of violence and it's a black hole.
You don't really need to 'dig deep' and punish yourself over it. I don't really think you need to endlessly apologise. You just need to reflect on it and make sure you don't do it again by learning from it and move forward.
Just to be clear, I don't think violence is okay at all. thnx
[This message edited by summerain at 2:27 AM, December 11th (Wednesday)]
While sitting in the garden of our beautiful retirement cabin. Relaxing with a beer at the cute little bistro table we had shared for some many wonderful days and nights together.
I had such hope and fear in my heart. I wasn't sure what he was there for, to be honest, until those words came out of his mouth. He asked me what I was thinking. I'm sure the look on my face was unreadable, stoic, calm. A friend had told me a few days before that he had "regret" and that he wanted to come home but he hadn't contacted me until he just appeared that day.
I told him I wanted to punch him in the face. Not only am I destroyed (still am I guess) but you want me to just forget about the last 3 months of cheating and the last 2 years of hell. He told me to go ahead.
Without thinking, truly, just like a rock 'em sock 'em robot I punched him in the jaw. I was shocked. I have never punched anyone. I've had many abuses in my life and only ever raised a hand in defense to protect myself from blows. I wasn't sorry, I WAS embarrassed. I was ashamed at the loss of control and the fact that I just did it. He rubbed his jaw and asked if I felt better. I did not feel better but I also did not feel bad about it. I still don't but I do feel bad for me, that I could do that at the age I am without a thought, just bam and it's done.
I think that's why you wrote to us. To understand yourself. It's not okay but then again it is. KWIM? Forgive yourself. Think about this. Run it over again and again for the rest of your life but know this. You need care. You need to be careful of your heart. You need to be aware of what's really going on around you. Take a good long look and then decide if you want to live this way.