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User Topic: never telling if BS doesn't know
Kierst13
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Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a thread on the wayward forum where a man is saying he might stop his cheating ways, but he will never tell his wife what he has done. Another poster says they will take their affair to their grave, and their spouse has said if anything has happened they do not want to know.

Is this healthy for a marriage; to have a secret of this size between two partners? Can two people have true intimacy if a secret like this is kept quiet? If one person holds the guilt and shame of the affair they had; does that negatively affect the relationship? Will the lie that begins as a small wedge eventually become a chasm between the two?

The other issue is if it is a PA; what about the risk of STDs that can lay dormant or undetected for months or years? Is the normal advice to keep quiet and keep the affair a secret from the BS?


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
SuperDuperWonderboy
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Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wondering when a t/j on that topic was going to come up. Interested to hear some thoughts. I am on an iPhone right now, but I have some thoughts on the topic to share when I get to the computer.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1272 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
Blobette
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Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In general, the Wayward forum is pretty negative about posters who post this. Usually they encourage posters to come clean. I can only think that the regulars haven't chimed in yet.

I absolutely agree with you that secrets like this are toxic, and make it more likely that it will happen again.


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1055 | Registered: Aug 2012
outtanowhere
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Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We all know the answer to this. Of course it is not right! It is a totally selfish mentality. I've been reading that thread as well and have to say it pushed every button I have since my H did this very thing to me. He went about seeing his whores all the while I was busy taking care of the household. I was unknowingly facilitating his facade by standing by his side, holding his hand and thinking we were one of those couples who would make it to their 50th anniversary with all our very well adjusted children (no thanks to him) and grandchildren in attendance.

What that poster does not concede to is that his BW already knows something. I knew too. I just didn't know what it was. I was suspicious after the first STD but, gave him the benefit of the doubt. Stupid I know...now. But, after the second one? No. The kicker is that he still doesn't think he could have given that to me since he wore a condom. Stupid, stupid man.

Pride goeth before a fall


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 709 | Registered: Apr 2013
Aubrie
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Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this healthy for a marriage; to have a secret of this size between two partners?
Nope.

Can two people have true intimacy if a secret like this is kept quiet?
Never in a million years. How can one person who is holding a secret like this, truly being "intimate" with their spouse? It's an oxymoron.

If one person holds the guilt and shame of the affair they had; does that negatively affect the relationship?
Absolutely. One is completely ignorant of the true state of affairs. Sometimes blissfully ignorant. While the other person is a liar and a manipulator. How black does a person's soul have to be to make the decision to "take the secret to the grave"? It's a complete cop out for being too weak and wussy to face the consequences for their actions.

The other issue is if it is a PA; what about the risk of STDs that can lay dormant or undetected for months or years?
I cannot tell you how many threads by BSs I've read that had constant UTIs and small infections. They weren't straight out STDs, but their cheating spouse was passing cooties from their side-pieces and thus giving crap to their BS. Hardly noble.

Is the normal advice to keep quiet and keep the affair a secret from the BS?
Not on SI it's not. A WS can never truly be an honest, authentic human being unless they own the good, bad, and ugly.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6127 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
sisoon
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Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can think of scenarios in which this could work in theory, but in general I believe it almost always fails. I know one thing that kept me from cheating was the belief that I could never keep it totally secret. Even if I could keep the facts secret, the broken-ness that allowed me to cheat was bound to come out.

More important, a good partnership, I believe, demands honesty. By keeping an A secret, I'd be ruining our partnership.

I think the secret-keepers are, simply, liars.


fBH (me) - 70, fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9940 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I saw it as well and the thread made me want to go take a very long, hot shower.

We know cheating, lying, and deceit unravels the marriage from within, known or unknown. It is only after DDay and the revelation that R can begin. Secrets kill the bond so even if the little wife never finds out, those secrets and the A already killed the marriage.

Edited to keep the integrity of the site. Sorry.

[This message edited by Lovedyoumore at 6:46 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1430 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
painfulpast
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Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I said in that thread, if the affair is discovered then that means the BS probably went looking for answers. If they were looking for answers, they knew something was wrong. If they knew something was wrong, then something WAS wrong. To think that an affair is of no consequence to a BS that doesn't know is just another sign of disrespect and thinking that the BS is a fool.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1861 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
plainpain
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Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My daughter's psychologist said she believed that telling was selfish - that it gave the WS relief from the shame, and transferred the pain onto the BS. She was recently divorced.

We have friends who have a 'don't ask/don't tell' relationship. The rules are basically, "Don't humiliate me."

I don't know, I can't speak for anyone else. I don't believe you can have intimacy without the truth. It's impossible to have it if you are willfully doing something that you know would devastate the other person.

I think that if the WS is truly remorseful, repentant, if they've done a 180 and they are prepared to walk with the BS through the pain, then knowing is better.

If the WS is just going to dump to free their own mind, is not truly remorseful, just wants to have a 'clear conscience', then I agree it is selfish. My H chose to tell me after his initial EA out of guilt, but he only gave me partial truth. He felt better. He was frustrated by my pain. He then re-entered A. I have often wished he had never told me the first time. That was a year of useless pain, considering that it is magnified by having to go through it AGAIN after he had already received my forgiveness and after he had already seen the depth of my pain. I don't actually regret that he told me, so much as I regret that I forgave him so readily, and that I gave him back my trust.

I will never say that I wish I didn't know. I have the truth about my life. I don't want to live anything but authentically.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 798 | Registered: Jul 2013
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Red  Posted: 6:38 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kierst (and others),
From the wayward forum description:

This is a protected forum and threads from this forum are not to be taken to any other forum for discussion

You may discuss the original question but please don't pull things from the Wayward Forum.

Thank you.


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I knew too. I just didn't know what it was.

Same here. During my wife's affair, I once daydreamed, for no apparent reason, that a private investigator lead me to a home where I saw my wife and another man getting it on through a window. I was taken aback by that and actually wondered if I was engaging in some swinger fantasy. Instead of listening to what I was trying to tell myself, denial kicked in and I brushed it aside.

During the affair, I once asked my wife if it was possible that her friend "Diana" had a lesbian crush on her, since the two always seemed to be texting each other. She assured me that wasn't the case and kind of laughed it off, but her obsessive texting in my presence didn't slow down at all. My anxiety wasn't going to get in the way of her communications with OM.

Post D Day, I figured it out: I KNEW my wife was having an affair, subconsciously at least. Consciously, I couldn't pinpoint the exact problem. The obvious problem just didn't fit the image of my wife that 16 years of marriage had seared in my brain. The denial was too strong.

But I definitely knew something was off. The disconnect in our marriage was never more obvious.

Just because someone can't pinpoint (or admit) the exact reason they are anxious or unhappy doesn't make them any less so.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 6:48 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1351 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Kierst13
♀ Member
Member # 39197
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, then I am not losing my mind.

Let me take this one step further as it has led to new questions for me. Can spouses have true intimacy if the WS does not give the entire truth to the BS. If they admit to part of the affair, but not all of it.

An example; If a WS admitted to ONS or online sex chats, but in reality they had a LTA? Can true intimacy be found if they admit partial truths? Would it matter if the BS were suspicious or uncertain that they had the whole truth?


Story in my profile
He lied, I gave the gift of R
He became the model remorseful WS...all while lying and seeing her
Am I done? Yes I am!

Posts: 347 | Registered: May 2013
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can true intimacy be found if they admit partial truths?
Partial truth means that there is still truth being withheld. Which is a lie by omission. For what purpose? To "protect" the WS? To keep the juicy bits out because, "If my BS finds out, we'll divorce!" Well hello, you took that chance by having the A in the first place.

Would it matter if the BS were suspicious or uncertain that they had the whole truth?
I think it does matter. There's a "gut feeling" that people have. A sixth sense if you will. WHY does a BS have suspicions and uncertainty? There's generally a reason for that. Most of the time because there have been repeat offenses, TT, or a defensiveness from the WS.

Withholding = incomplete intimacy


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6127 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Holly-Isis
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Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe it's just another aspect of WS selfishness. They've already done the damage and are now avoiding the consequences. They get to have their fun and not face the music.

Some BSs say they wouldn't want to know, but when I see a BS that found out years after the A ended, they mourn living those years of lies.

I can't say for a fact that not telling causes more problems. I do know that a WS who hasn't had to go through the work and seen the effect of the A on their BS is more likely to cheat again. I know in our case MrH hid the truth of the 1A and it caused a rift between us until the 2A. R is so much harder in part because of that.

IMO when a WS justifies making their BS live a lie, it's just an extension of the A and proof of selfishness, entitlement and self love winning over love for the BS. They're protecting themselves and the AP, not the BS no matter what they may tell themselves.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11102 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Dallas2
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Member # 28362
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Never telling a BS is a BAD BAD idea. Most of us have some gut feeling that something is happening or happened with the WS. My WS had a short term A and kept it a secret seven years. Those years were a living nightmare.

In those seven years I knew and asked from time to time - always was told no and I was crazy. By the time he confessed to the A we were seperated and on our way to a D.

It has been a struggle to try and R and I think the years of his lying and lying has done more damage than the actual A.

The secret was there and he grew distant and started drinking and I just stopped caring. The secret may never be told but a BS "knows"!! The truth is devestating but you can build a new and better M once it is out. By not telling the WS is making another selfish choice IMOO.


Me

Posts: 828 | Registered: Apr 2010
Blameitontherain
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Member # 37476
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As someone who found at 4 years later, the secret was literally killing my marriage. WH says he never would have old me if I had not pieced it together and confronted him. He was going to take it to his grave because he didn't want to hurt me. coward. Too late for that. He didn't want to face the consequences since I made it clear that if he ever cheated, I would divorce his ass. He was scared of what he would loose but not scared enough to not do it.

The secret ate away at him for 4 years. He withdrew from me, the kids, everything. He became obsessed with only himself and his wants and needs. He vilified me in order to not feel as bad for what he had done. I knew something was wrong and we were literally a month or two from divorcing. He said he never would have told even had we divorced, he just would have let the marriage end.

[This message edited by Blameitontherain at 7:38 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 273 | Registered: Nov 2012
bionicgal
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Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H's brilliant AP thought the solution was to either end it and not tell the BSes, or tell us, but not tell us the extent, or tell us, and not tell us who it was! Yeah. Great idea!

Look, this has been the worst crap of my life. Painful. Rage-inducing. But, the intimacy that my H and I share is 100x more than it was before, and most of this is because he had to get really real. Being truly intimate would not have been possible without telling me the whole truth.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1858 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
nekorb
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Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, so I didn't read the thread, as it sounds infuriating...but the fact that it is infuriating made me wonder if it perhaps a troll vs a serious poster?

Just a thought...


Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat; Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
D filed July 16, 2014, 363 days later than I should have
Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart. Wait for the Lord.

Posts: 1818 | Registered: Aug 2013
LeopoldB
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Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Issues such as this must be examined in the context of a certain time and culture. Assuming that the present time and modern culture are necessarily the best or right may not always be productive. So far as we know, there have been roughly 3,000 years and hundreds of cultures that have not shared the current view of love, marriage, and fidelity. I am not so sure that all of those millions of people were (exactly) wrong or had meaningless marriages. In the same vein, we might not agree with the concept of "planned marriages", where families make the arrangements and the couple do not meet until the wedding day. And yet many people inform me that those planned marriages often lead to a happy and healthy lifetime together - - or at least peace between tribes. Personally, I have always thought highly of cultures that require the paying of a pig and some mats as a dowry. It shows that the young man is sincere. Who in their right mind is going to ante up a pig if they are not committed? If he winds up cheating... well, your clan still has the pig.

So who is to say that our current concepts of love, marriage, and fidelity are somehow correct? You make your own rules... you try to live by them... you deal with the consequences... and then you die. That is the best you can do. So maybe you should get a pig and some mats first. There is some wisdom in that.



Posts: 190 | Registered: Sep 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, December 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So who is to say that our current concepts of love, marriage, and fidelity are somehow correct? You make your own rules... you try to live by them... you deal with the consequences... and then you die. That is the best you can do. So maybe you should get a pig and some mats first. There is some wisdom in that.
Here's the problem: Betrayed spouses aren't let in on the fact that the terms of the marriage have changed from a monogamous one-on-one relationship to one that now includes external actors. The marriage contract was written and agreed upon by both parties, and one person decided to change it (and keep it secret) without notifying the other signatory.

And that, frankly, is garbage.

As far as making your own rules....I'd tend to agree, except that when we get married (at least in Western culture) there is an implicit understanding that we have agreed-upon terms as far as the boundaries of the marriage and honesty therein. Changing the rules and/or withholding information *cough*lying*cough* without letting the BS in on the secret is manipulation. The WS is not letting the BS make an informed decision on whether they want to take part in THAT type of marriage. They give the BS the info they allow them to have in order to get them to make the decision that benefits the WS.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 2006 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
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