He has just told me how strongly he actually felt for her.
He loved me but she was more fun to be with, she made him feel good, she wanted him. That made her a more attractive option than me.
He said at that time he wanted a relationship with her so badly, it was more important than his relationship with me.
That there was very little to choose between us - God that hurts.
He didn't want to leave me but he did shove me to the side, put me out of his mind.
It was all about them and how good she made him feel.
He wanted me AND her. Didn't want to leave me but wanted her too for an affair, not a proper relationship but he wanted her alright. He actually wanted an affair. That was his goal once she started making passes at him.
I knew he felt something for her, I am not stupid, but it's a hell of a shock to realise he rated her as highly as he rated me, which was low at that time.
I didn't think he was capable of feeling that much for someone else.
I didn't realise how serious is was cos he kept downplaying it.
I am hurting badly right now.
He still insists he woke up after kissing her, like the beer goggles came off and he realised what he was doing.
It didn't stop him sitting in a dark car park with her to see if she would make a move and give him the validation that she wanted him. He didn't want her anymore but still wanted her to want him!
He still says he planned to reject any advances she made, thought he was in control and could stop it any time.
He also admitted that his main reason for having sex with her was he didn't want to hurt HER feelings! He was so flattered she was offering herself to him so blatantly that he didn't want her to feel rejected or embarrassed! He planned to say no but when it came down to it he was so chuffed to be 'wanted' sexually he couldn't disappoint her now could he
He actually had the nerve to say he did it to protect me WTF! Protect her more like. He said he didn't want me to be hurt by all they had done prior to sex and he was so scared she would tell me he went through with it to keep her quiet, to protect me. How effing noble of him! I guess I should be grateful, eff that!
I told him in no uncertain terms the only people he was protecting were himself and her. That if he wanted to protect me he wouldn't have done any of it.
So hurt and so angry
sorry, me again lol. Just leaving work and I saw you.
You have to realize, if you replace her with any suzy, jane or alice that stroked his ego he would have done the same thing.
It's about him being broken and needing external validation.
It's not about you.
"We're not broken, just bent. We can learn to love again."
Foo emotional neglect, zero self esteem - would go with anyone who wanted him before he met me cos he didn't think he could get the girls he wanted. Conflict avoidance, trust me, in his house you keep your head down and shut up or all hell breaks loose. I don't know how he stood his childhood. I had an abusive one but I still knew I was loved. He was spoilt materially and ignored or rejected emotionally, still is.
He has never been able to say no to anyone, I have seen it time and time again. Helping neighbours, his family, going into work at all hours the second his boss asks him to.
Both times a woman has approached him he has jumped straight in with 'I want you do you want me?' not in as many words but that quickly and in that way. He calls it physical fishing, to see if anyone would want him.
He is disgusted by his behaviour, has noticed the way he became an arrogant jerk around flirty women.
He got what he wanted with this affair, he found out he was attractive and women do want him. The first woman two years ago rejected him & he didn't learn from it cos he downplayed it as just flirting.
Shame he didn't realise I was here wanting him all along.
He says he always held back with me. Never allowed himself to love me 100% cos he was scared I would leave him. I was the first girl he chased and he never felt confident I really loved him.
This holding back left him vulnerable to affairs I think.
He says now, and is showing me every chance he gets that I am all he wants. All he ever really wanted he just couldn't see it before. He was too busy holding back and taking me for granted. So much so that he stopped seeing me for me.
He says that he got what he thought he wanted then realised he didn't really want it after all, or need it. It was the idea that appealed to him, the reality fell very flat in the end and he never wants to go there or hurt me again.
He is disgusted at himself now, sees exactly how it all happened and why and if he is to be believed will never risk what he has in me again. He says he really sees me now.
I don't suppose he has to, he got what he wanted
They're all the bloody same these men
Too scared to give 100% to us so they damn near destroy us with some **** (fill in the blanks as this is the R forum)
Then if it's a deal breaker they lose everything or if it's not they now know they're loved and we're left bleeding
As karma says, none of this is about you. All of it is about your H, and it's all fantasy. You'll see that, as time goes on.
I know these revelations are tremendously painful. From the POV of R, however, your H is now seeing how effed up he was. Your H's new self-knowledge bodes well for R.
The revelations are a step back and a couple of steps forward, too.
They're all the bloody same these men
ETA: Thanks for the clarification below, mwe. I didn't think you really meant it.
[This message edited by sisoon at 12:12 PM, December 13th (Friday)]
WTF is it all about? This need for validation that destroys lives for nothing at all
It is a good sign that your H is getting to the roots of his behavior. My H also didn't trust me (ironically, I trusted him implicitly). His FOO taught him that the people you love will reject and humiliate you. If you screw-up, they will abandon you.
My H knew at the kissing stage that something was very wrong, that he did not feel desire for OW, and in fact felt obligated and repulsed. If only he could have told me then!! But he panicked. Despite all evidence that I am compassionate, committed and have always drawn closer to him when he opened up, he couldn't trust me. His emotions told him I would scorched-earth divorce him and keep the kids from him. Yes, he was convinced that I'd never speak to him again and would poison our kids against him, over a two week KISA situation and a kiss on the neck.
So instead of facing my rejection, he entered into a twisted blackmail situation, complete with sex about 20 times, that lasted a year and a half. Obviously, he did not do that to protect me. I did not really exist in his messed-up mind. It was all about him. In his inability to think clearly, he was driven by patterns from FOO: fear, shame, secrecy, and covering it all up with anger.
I hope it helps to know that similar scenarios are not uncommon. I know it doesn't lesson the pain, but I think it shows some self-respect that your H was able to stop the A and eventually confess.
Remember that what your H was feeling was not "for" OW. His feelings were for himself. Because you, Olwen, have self-acceptance and feel worthy of desire and love, it's hard to imagine how needy people are when they lack those things. How good it feels to have a reprieve from feeling "less than" even though it's fake and fleeting because it's an external source.
Just had to edit this as I thought I had written about the worst bit but somehow I missed it out. He told me on the phone this morning that it was 'serious' between them, then all the other stuff about how there wasn't much difference in how he felt about her and about me.
I freaked out, hence my garbled post with the main point missing!
He has just told me I got the wrong end of the stick, he broke down on the phone saying 'that's not what I meant AT ALL!'
It's not much better but he didn't mean he was serious about 'her' but being honest that the affair was a 'serious situation' he wasn't just playing he was actively chasing the attention and the feeling he got with her.
At least I am lucky enough to have a H who can see the difference between loving the fake relationship they had and loving the woman. He even says it was pure superficial bull shit and they didn't even really know each other. She could have been anyone willing to give him attention. They just had superficial things in common that made it easy to talk, both tv and film addicts and agreeing with everything the other one said type of thing.
He was telling me what he has done is serious and at the time he was serious about the affair, but not her as a person. it gave him everything he wanted and he didn't want to lose it. The woman herself - not so much, could have been anyone vaguely attractive and into him.
It still hurts, he is making lots of realisations and revelations that are hard to hear but that one just felt like it came out of the blue, it did but not the way I took it.
He has admitted there wasn't much between us in how we appealed to him at the time. He had made me the wicked witch and her some sort of golden source of attention. I struggle with understanding this but again, it wasn't her for herself she appealed to him cos of how she made HIM feel. So we kind of met in the middle in an out of ten kind of way. I had dropped cos he wasn't seeing me properly and she shot up cos she made him feel so good.
It still hurts but thank God he wasn't serious about her as a person or prospective replacement for me.
Hope that makes sense, it's certainly had me confused and in tears today.
[This message edited by olwen at 9:56 AM, December 13th (Friday)]
Here is a chart that shows infatuation vs love -- you and your H may find it helpful to look at. It helped my H a great deal to see what it was that he was actually feeling.
Finally, my H always describes the choice as between affair and not affair, not between her and me. There really was no choice there. . .It was like, drink this bottle of vodka or don't -- and not paying attention to the consequences. It is classic.
Hang in there, honey. Things aren't worse -- they are better. It may not feel like it now, but ya'll are getting real! That is the good, but painful, stuff.
I edit, therefore I am.
Ok. Now you know the worst of it. Until now it was out there. Like an infection under your skin that was making you sick but was out of sight.
As hard as that was to hear. And as hard as this will be to work through. NOW is when your true healing starts.
You have to get all the bad out. Get all out there in the open. Know it all. All those dirty and horrible little details. You have to have all of that before you can work through it and start to heal yourself.
You will be ok now. Trust in yourself. You are far far stronger than you know. You can do this.
Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
His version of events previously was definitely coloured by how he feels NOW. He wasn't willing to really think back to how he felt then. Now he is doing it all the time.
He said even then he knew she meant nothing to him and he was using her, it was a win - win situation for him, have an affair with a younger woman who looks up to you and hey you're safe cos you don't care about her right?! WRONG he may not have cared about her but he got so hooked on the feelings she gave him that he got dragged in right up to his neck!
He also said what you just did. That it wasn't a choice between me and her it was a choice between an affair or no affair and as he didn't intend to 'let it get out of hand' he thought he was safe to muck around a bit. Of course he wasn't as in control as he thought.
Thanks for the infatuation/love thing. It will help me more than him though. He has said from day one he didn't actually give a crap about her as a person, he knew he was using her, he knew he didn't actually want to BE with her in a proper relationship. He seems to have never been in the 'do I love her?' category. He was definitely in the 'should I be single and have lots of fun?' category for a couple of weeks, but never seriously. HE knows he would be lost without me, but he has always said even if I left him he would never have had a real relationship with her. She was ideal for 'a bit of fun' but not for real life.
It's all so hard to hear, how close they got, how his feelings for me diminished so easily, how he got hooked on what she gave him so quickly and easily and especially how much he enjoyed it. It's really hard to swallow but strangely easier to accept than the I never wanted her never fancied her story.
He fancied her enough for him to want her to want him and for him to want her cos she made him feel so good and he saw her as more attractive than he had before or after the affair. He kept saying he didn't fancy her cos he wasn't like 'phwoar I wouldn't mind a bit of that' kind of thing. He still fancied her though.
He wanted her for an affair, for what she could give him. As an 'add on'. He kept saying he never wanted her cos he never wanted to be in a proper relationship or leave me for her. He still wanted her though.
So I can get where he was coming from but it's definitely being pedantic with words and he has stopped that now.
I can see why he would cling so much to not actively fancying her and not actively wanting her but really he didn't have a leg to stand on once we really got talking.
He is no different to any other cheater and that's something he is finding hard to swallow but he is trying.
I am learning to not accept his first answer, to ask things like - how do you define fancy? etc.
We are getting much further along now.
[This message edited by olwen at 11:12 AM, December 13th (Friday)]
that's how it feels. I am not banging my head against a brick wall anymore. Instead I am facing all the crap that has oozed out of the wound and it's time to start clearing it up. Sure, I will find out more, as will he as he really looks at what he did but we will just keep cleaning and cleaning until all the poison is out and we can start to heal.
Right now though he can clean his own festering wounds cos my stab wounds need some tlc first.
He has left me bleeding but wants to be the bandage that helps me mend, I hope I can find the courage to let him.
Not quite sure how to find that courage though, how do you let yourself be open and vulnerable to someone who has wounded you so deeply? I guess it's a leap of faith and remembering how much love you still have for them.
It's bloody scary though.
[This message edited by olwen at 11:09 AM, December 13th (Friday)]
This whole thread says you have all the courage you need. Have faith in yourself.
A hug, if it helps: (((olwen)))
We have more talking planned for tonight when ds in bed.
We are going to tackle the car situation.
He has already admitted that despite being fairly sure nothing would happen (cos she never kissed him back the day before, just stood like a statue) he had a feeling she was up to something when she pulled up in the dark car park.
He thought, if anything, she would try and kiss him and he planned to refuse. He didn't want anything more after kissing her cos there was no spark there, no desire, just like a playground kiss and it woke him up.
He still wanted her to want him though. I have said he can never say no to anything and he admitted he 'might' have gone along with it if it was just a kiss cos it would have been easier than saying no and he would have got his validation after all.
But, he insists that after kissing her any attraction he had to her physically disappeared. In his words it was like kissing a rubbery lipped seal. He was not going to turn down the chance of finding out she did like him after all though.
He planned to stop it after another kiss -if it happened and he didn't really believe it would cos she kept saying they were just friends -because he didn't want her sexually. She was ok to kiss and have an EA with but he never got 'excited' around her. Not even when he kissed her. The kisses were more a way to get more attention than physical desire. To impress her, to make her want him. She was only attractive enough to serve his purposes for an EA.
That's as far as we have got with the new revelations. The next bit is the story I have right now, I am so scared it's going to change tonight but if it does I am only expecting something like - he thought he would like it but as with all the other physical stuff he liked the idea more than the reality. I will have to wait and see.
This is the story I have for now.
So when she lifted her skirt, with no discussion beforehand, no touching, not even a hand on his knee or a kiss he was shocked and says he really panicked. This wasn't what he wanted and he couldn't think how to get out of it without looking 'less of a man' or offending her. He felt trapped, realised he had led her on and had sat there knowing something might happen, he didn't want her to tell me what they had been doing so he took the easy option and did what she wanted. She is not stupid, imo that's why she went straight to the main event. I think she knew if she tried anything softer he would try and stop it after getting his confirmation and she wanted to win her prize so she threw him off guard.
He says he hated it. He looks disgusted when he tells me how she felt. How hopeless he felt getting in the back seat cos he had smashed through his boundaries and didn't know what he was doing by that point. He figured he had definitely lost me so he tried to go through with what she wanted so he could at least keep her happy, but barely managed it and stopped after seconds.
She got really pissed off and refused to take him home. He got angry with her and finally put his foot down. She had to make one last little dig though by getting him to fill her car up on the way! Then she sped off in a temper and he came home with the knowledge of what he had done.
he didn't confess til months later but told me the next morning he was never having a night out without me again as it had been the worst night of his life. He was very clingy and loving that day.
I just wish he had told me then instead of going on to be her puppet living in fear she would tell me for another 3 weeks.
they never had sex or any other physical contact after that night so maybe I can believe that was a step too far for him
I honestly believe neither of them really wanted the other, that they both just wanted the other to want them.
I am sorry if this ever changing story is boring anyone, I worry about that. But writing things down as they are revealed helps me process the new info.
Well, that's the story I have now. I will be back to let you know if any more poison gets cleared out of the wound or if that part of the story is true.
I must admit I am scared what we will dig out, although I am certain it wasn't raging lust. He is quite clear on that point.
What is it with the men. Do they have an affair script 😡
All I can say is that my fWH told me so many of those things but now has said that she meant nothing and he just went alone because hell he kissed her and then obviously the next thing was to fuck her. Classy in her car no condoms no hate him for all his shit.
Honestly I think I can no longer post in R. I can't get past his motives or reasons.
I remember when this happened for us.
Almost IDENTICAL- except his lasted almost three monta and there were multiple sexual encounters- but the pain is the same.
It's not about the sex or the time really- it's about the betrayal.
You are handling this so well.
I can say that I was there two months ago- and it did move us forward. It was so hard and gut wrenching- but now I had the whole story.
You knew there was more. I remember how strongly you felt that- and you kept fightong for the truth. thats the old BS gut instinct kcking in.
It must have been hard for him to not only hold it in and "hide" it for so long- ad also to finally come clean.
It began some of my true healing - and it was the beginning of his coming out of the fog, and starting to really hurt.
You are doing well and this is a big step. I feel bad that our times of crisis have been so close- I feel like we crash an burn at the same time- and I am always late with my hugs and support.
Know that I am rooting so hard for you guys.
I know it hurts- and as it settles in it will hurt more- it's a whole new roller coaster now.
But remember that now you are starting to heal the TRUE wounds.
Good luck my friend- I wish you only the best.
[This message edited by TheAmazingWondertwin at 5:51 PM, December 13th (Friday)]
TAW - thanks so much hun. Yep, we do seem to be in very similar places don't we. It's nice we can support each other though.
Well, there was no more to the story. What he told me about the car was definitely how it happened. The only changes were what I already knew, that he sat in the car wondering if she was going to make a move so he would get his validation.
Such a relief to have the story sorted, I can now start dealing with the new facts and try to continue R.