I am fully aware that I am a grown man, so your remark was rude and patronizing. If you have nothing positive to contribute, I would suggest that you go elsewhere.
I am also backing out of your thread (you're welcome) because every time you hear something that you don't want to hear, you take it as criticism and as not being "positive." If you don't like the differing ideas that come with a message board, then I have no clue as to why you are here. It would probably be best for you to only confide in your parents and others who are not keen to disagree with anything you may have to say.
[This message edited by cissi at 6:12 PM, December 22nd (Sunday)]
You have a PM
The people you do your life with shape the life you live
and don't feel bad about getting a pm from a moderator, i've gotten my share. don't always agree, but then, i'm not a moderator.
i do believe that we all wish the best for you. we all know this shit-road sucks, even the WS's. read the wayward forum once in a while, there's a lot of pain there too. and they have the added pain of guilt. I admire a lot of the WS's in wayward because i can see how much work they've done and how hard they are trying.
One thing I am certain of, things will get better, no matter what you and your wife decide. You'll see.
wishing you all the best.
As for your parents, I'm fully supportive of telling them. I told mine, he told his mom (but didn't give her the truth, so I did). In fact, I told damn near everyone I knew. Like you said, it's needed for support. However, my ex wasn't behaving the way your wife was, so I vented. A lot. My ex was awful. So, just be prepared to defend your wife against those you do tell. Make sure you're ready to ask them to respect your decision to stay (if that's what you choose) and that there may be arguments with those individuals in the future should they choose to treat your wife differently, as some may. Who you tell is your choice, no one else's. It's how you want to handle the situation. Just be aware of the consequences. As long as you're ok with dealing with those, proceed.
Seconding what many have said so far, your wife is the poster child for remorse. She obviously hurts and even though I have a hard time sympathizing with WS's, it appears your wife truly is remorseful and that she loves you very much. I definitely recommend counseling for both of you, both IC and MC. You could probably benefit from having an outside source to vent to.
I wish you the best. This is a shitty time of year to find out this kind of stuff.
how can she prove these things? How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again?
That's up to you. No BS is the same, nor are any WS's. Sure, there are similar attributes, but every person is different. Not everyone handles everything the same. It's going to be what YOU need her to do to prove these things. Maybe she never will. "Time heals all wounds"...or something to that affect. You may need her to prove to you over time that she'll never do it again. You may never be able to trust her again. No one can make that decision for you. Not your parents, not your friends, not your kids. You.
I don't believe in "once a cheater, always a cheater". I think that there are some people that make extremely bad choices (which can be dealbreakers), such as it seems with your wife. Your wife cheated, but is she a "cheater"? Do you believe that your wife is a completely different person, or do you believe that she was broken and made a serious error in judgement, but deep down she's still the woman you adore? Again why I suggest counseling for you both. She needs it to find out why she did this and how to cope with future issues without cheating. You need it to deal with your frustrations, anger, and how to cope with what has happened. Marriage counseling is pretty obvious. You guys have a HUGE barrier to your relationship.
What you're feeling is normal. Anger, betrayal, hurt, confusion, even love. You can still love your wife during all of this. Don't think that has to change. But you have to go through all of the feelings before you can heal, so that's why many have told you not to make any decisions as of yet. Wait until you experience the emotions and your mind is a little clearer. A counselor can help with that. Also, if you haven't, check out the healing library and other books that are recommended.
How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again? Because I am not going to settle for less. Whatever happens, I am not going to settle for a second rate marriage.
The answer to that one is hotly debated. But I think the truth is they can't. But they never really could but we just didnít know it. If they cheated then it was in them to cheat all along and the right set of circumstances just never came up.
For some, the right circumstances is a low bar and easily reached. They cheat repeatedly and will probably never stop.
For some, and your WW seems to be one of these, the bar is very high and very hard to reach. The response from your wife would seem to indicate she is disgusted she reached that level and is working to set the bar even higher. My WW fits into that category, but no way near as all in as your WW seems to be.
I'm 7 Years out from my D-Day. The recovery is a very long hard road and if it wasnít for my kids I might not have put in the effort. The reason I'm still here on SI is my WW doesn't have it in her to do the really hard work to better herself so I sometimes need the support I find here. But her bar was already pretty high and a similar set of circumstance to your situation was what it took to reach A level. Nothing good ever comes from an A. But sometimes the A sets up a chain reaction of events that can strengthen the bond you had or make a new one.
Thatís what happened for me. I fell out of love with who I thought my wife was. The one I put on the pedestal. But I stayed for the kids, then came to grips with who my wife really is. I fell in love with the real person who fell off the pedestal and is standing right beside me.
[This message edited by Twitchy at 7:25 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]
Dies irae. Dies illa solvet saeclum in favilla.
People are different. BDell has chosen not to draw away and ruminate, but to take control.
How does a cheater prove that it will not happen again?
You have to R with her, and stay with her until the day she or you die. That's the only way. It's up to you to decide if you'll let her try to prove it or not. It takes another leap of faith on the part of the BS. For her to prove it, you have to give her the gift of R.
I have the same concerns about my WW. If she comes back (not likely, but for arguments sake), am I willing to give her the chance to prove that she won't do it again? If she was as remorseful as you WW seems to be, then my answer would be "yes".
Hang in there man. And again, count your blessings that your WW is as remorseful as she is. I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat.
You either take that leap, or you don't, but if a person can cheat, they can cheat. Do I believe once a cheater always a cheater? No, not at all. But I know that a person can cheat no matter what I do or don't do, or what they do or say or don't do or don't say. They can go to IC every day, and leave and cheat. They can become depressed in 5 years, and cheat. They can tell a person the A is over, and it isn't.
I'm sorry that you want some guarantee. If you find how to get one, please let us all know. We'd all love one too.
this is my issue, I don't know if I want to make that leap of faith, without some kind of safety net
Bdell, as my user name suggests, there is no safety net. 5 long term relationships, 5 cheating women. The first 4 were 1 and done. That included my first marriage. I cannot fathom the wayward mindset. Nor did I have any desire to. I cannot say it enough, there is no safety net.
The difference this time? SI. I cannot emphasize enough the value of the knowledge base here. I learned that I needed to put off major decisions for 6 months to a year.(Takes that long to learn to stand again) I learned the difference between regret and remorse. Actions, not words. It took my FWW 8 months to figure out the difference. I'm nearly a year out from that and 2 from D-day. I'm currently trying R
R is not for everyone. For some, the A is a deal breaker immediately, remorseful WW or no. Others, take time to get there. Some decide to try R. The only possibility for success is with a completely remorseful WW. IMO, yours sounds like one such. That has nothing to do with your decision though. Take your time. Read, learn, heal. Time is on your side. You're doing ok.
BTW, I also learned I've got a busted picker
The one thing I was determined to do was keep my dignity. Wh had taken so much from me already and I wasn't going to let him take that as well. I used my anger to keep myself from backing down on what I needed to heal and survive. And to this day, I have no regrets for anything I said or did to my FWH during those first few years.
Now my story turned very ugly after the first 7 months and I hope that your WW really is being truthful and sincere in her remorse. December is never going to be the same for you no matter what happens between you and your WW. All of my DDays landed in December and I absolutely hate this month which is sad since my youngest was born on December 13th.
Take care of yourself and focus on your own healing. If you need to separate from your WW after the holidays and file for D, then do it. You can always change your mind. You've just fallen into the most nightmarish roller coaster of your life. You're going to go through all five stages of grief in different orders and probably several times in each stage. Read through our healing library. I can't count the number of times I read each article. I'm also a book lover so I bought and read a lot of books on recovering from an affair. And like many others have mentioned, take the advise you need and leave the rest behind. You know yourself, your life, your WW, your family, your kids, ect. better than anyone on this forum. Go with your gut and do whats best for you and your family.
I pray that you and your family will be able to enjoy some of the holidays.
I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength!
I notice when you hear something you don't like you go into lash out mode. Your childish comment was uncalled for. Which leads me to what I said about anxiety...
I would expect sadness or anger but what you describe is anxiety. My family is very strong with healthy boundaries and enough respect for each other to not go wading into each other's sex lives.
Eta: typo/autocorrect malfunction corrected.
[This message edited by seriouslylostit at 2:38 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)]