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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: WS read Marriage Builders, "you don't need to deal w/ the proble
Oldernotwiser
♀ Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After a weekend of arguing and fighting FWH googles affair recovery and finds the Marriage Builders site. He identified strongly with the author saying " the past is over, you can't resolve every issue so focus on Filling Love Bank and your spouse should feel more loved.... ". I feel like we do need to deal with the issues. I think we should be talking about his betrayals. The author writes that infidelity is the worst blow to the BS, devastating to the relationship etc, but the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement. Have I missed something? If betrayal is so devastating shouldn't we work through that along with treating each other respectfully. He's never tried reading anything really but says now this guy is the first one to offer us GOOD advice. He agrees his adultery was very thoughtless but it ended and now all we need to do is be considerate in our dealings with each other and the marriage will be healed. I am pretty angry still, still feel like I don't know what all has occurred over the 30 years of affairs , acting out sexually, flotations and lies, lies, lies. I am not thinking of physically leaving but I have to admit I feel like I have shut down inside. I am so used up I don't feel like I can even keep trying to understand or work things out alone any longer. I wish he would've found a different advice site. The policy of radical honesty " wasn't referring to disclosing old affairs"


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
tushnurse
♀ Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can honestly say as veteran here, anyone who says you don't need to deal with the past to heal in the future is full of SHIT. This is wrong for anyone who has been through any type of traumatic event.

Of course you have to deal with it. Of course he has to deal with it. Moving on and pretending all is hunky dory is a recipe for repeat offenses, and you developing resentment and anger.

EA, PA whatever there is something fundamentally not right with your H's thinking and he needs to understand why he sought this attention, and why he felt it was ok to lie to you. This has to be figured out, and he has to heal himself, and fix that part so you can become strong and confident in your relationship again.

Sure he can be kind and honest and transparent, and sorry, and all of that stuff that he needs to do to help you heal, and help the M heal, but until he really does the nitty gritty dirty work of healing then you are just going through motions, and rugsweeping. It's up to you what you allow him to get away with, and it's up to you call bullshit when you see it, and my dear this is bullshit with a capital B.

Has he done any work toward healing yet?
Has he said he wants to R?
Is he doing any of the work?

If so then go buy him Not just friends and have him read that one to start off. That's the real deal in dealing with infidelity and healthy happy healing.

((((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8222 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
numb&dumb
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The MB stuff never really worked for me either. To get the entirety of what they are really saying, you have to read the books. The web stuff is meant to lure WS in to buy the books.

In my opinion, MB totally ignores processing of the BS anger, justice, making amends, even side steps apology for the WS. Dangerously close to rug sweeping if you ask me.

We tried MC, she suggested some of the Dr. Harley stuff. Well it gave my W an entitlement that I hadn't seen in awhile. We fired the MC and through the books away. I told my W that if we are going to follow MB, we are probably going to end up D. That stopped it.

So many other resources available. Have him read a different one. No one author has it completely correct.

How to help your spouse after an affair is a better read.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2554 | Registered: May 2010
plainpain
♀ Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. That makes me angry for you! So, let's just say I punched you in the face and threw you down the stairs.. and then I did this repeatedly over a period of 30 years... well, how 'thoughtless' of me! But this is repairable if we just move on and we both learn to be more respectful and considerate of one another, and I 'fill your love bank'? Fine. IN BIZARRO WORLD.

Filling the love bank means doing WHATEVER THE BS NEEDS. Considering the needs of the BS. Putting aside your own CLEARLY selfish, self-serving behaviors and giving the BS what they say that they need from you. If the BS SAYS, 'I don't want to know', then perhaps there is an argument to be made for non-disclosure. But if the BS is asking question after question after question, one might assume that information is welcome.

You have been seriously traumatized. You have the right to ask for whatever you need in order to heal. Whether you are able to save your marriage or not, YOU need to HEAL. Not 'the marriage'... YOU. How dare your WS question what it is that you need? I HATE that so much. My H does it, too, sometimes, and that's generally the time I start planning my D.
GRRRR.


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 805 | Registered: Jul 2013
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's never tried reading anything really but says now this guy is the first one to offer us GOOD advice. He agrees his adultery was very thoughtless but it ended and now all we need to do is be considerate in our dealings with each other and the marriage will be healed.

He thinks it's good advice because it means he doesn't have to deal with that shit anymore.

The book is horse shit.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7431 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading snippets of a theory is very dangerous indeed. I think he's missed some pretty serious parts. MB has a very different theory of affairs. Dr. Harley believes that everyone is vulnerable to affairs, and the way you combat that is with his love bank/meeting needs theory. I think that meeting needs and the policy of join agreement are pretty good ideas in general and helpful in building marriages. Not so much in affair recovery.

That said, even Harley believes the cheater is 100% responsible for their decision to cheat. And in all my readings, your WH's versions of the theories are not at ALL accurate.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6359 | Registered: Jan 2011
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MB offers horrible advice IMO.

I read the books. At first I liked the idea as it seemed calculated and mathematical. But then the whole *get over it* theme became apparent. By hurting we are subtracting from our WS *love bank*.

So what did their affair do to OUR love bank?

The love bank is horse shit. Just another way to shift blame onto the BS IMO.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3429 | Registered: Sep 2007
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MB also says once you've talked about the affair and all questions are answered it's never brought up again.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4770 | Registered: Dec 2010
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement.

Nothing like cherry picking, huh? Your H just wants to avoid the pain and damage he has caused, and pretend everything is fine, because to him, as long as he can ignore the pain and damage, life is fine. He wasn't betrayed. He isn't hurting. He isn't shattered and scared and angry and sad and insecure and every emotion you can think of except happy. He's just fine. He has his wife, faithful as she is, and his home, and he's just ready to move onl

His article said the focus is on meeting needs. Well, your need is to discuss his betrayals and work through why he felt entitled to have outside relationships, why he didn't feel he could come to you if he was unhappy, why he has such poor boundaries and coping skills. These are the needs. So ask him when he'll be meeting your needs? Then 180 his dumb ass.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1879 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I personally don't classify anything as "the past" until I have dealt with it and completely healed.

If you broke your leg and still wore a cast would you consider the break in "the past"?


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald.

The fact that my H took that short, clear book to heart, and the fact that I found SI are the reasons we are in R rather than divorced.

Don't let your WS cherry-pick the advice that his wayward mind identifies with.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
crestfallen
♀ Member
Member # 27993
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H read that too. When I first discovered the A, he refused to talk about it. Then, through MC, he was advised to do so, but gently. That's when the lying started. He refused to show me things I asked for. He refused to give me passwords. He got angry when I stopped in his office. He stopped MC claiming it was not useful( because someone was telling you to be accountable and you are not the awesome humble guy you think you are???)

Then, the sleuth, that I am, I discovered the credit card and phone bills that I needed and got into his accounts and found all kinds of bad shit. I asked him about it and he lied some more.

About 10 month after Dday, we had a session where he spilled most of it, but I could tell there were more lies. Intuition?

Year after year, something surfaces about his affair...because he refuses to deal with it in a way that is reconcilatory to me, he has prolonged the healing. I have tried to be patient, but as a result, I still have some very difficult days. Because he refuses to be uncomfortable for one moment. He claims he loves me, but he just loves himself more. I will be 5 years in February and I am well. I just think if was really willing to deal with this in the correct way from the beginning, I would be doing so much better.


BS-me-57
WH-57
Married 32 years
OW-Mr. Ed ish! Seriously!
DDAY- 2/21/09
TT until 1/10/10
Working on R and doing well!!

Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2010
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If
but the focus is on meeting needs and enthusiastic agreement
Where's the part where YOUR needs are met? Where you enthusiastically agree with the way forward?


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1055 | Registered: Aug 2012
MindMonkey
♂ Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We followed the MB program at first. I still believe whole heartedly in the concept of the love bank but I COULD NOT get over the fact that they completely discount resentment. I felt like a horrible abusive failure everytime the anger boiled over. MB just says don’t talk about it and take anti-depressants as if there is some pill that’ll make me happy.

The worst part is that FWW wanted to follow it which seemed a little “convenient”. Of course the WS wants to follow a plan where they don’t have to deal with the horrible mess they created. The MB plan was making me nuts.

I don’t want to punish her with it but it just pisses me off to act like it never happened. Talk about the elephant in the room.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
NoGoodUsername
♂ Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that some people at SI have been helped by Marriage Builders, but my BW and I look separate looks at their material and went the other way.


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

Posts: 236 | Registered: Aug 2013
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My love bank was empty for years. never cheated. Move on nothing to see here


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
Holly-Isis
♀ Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My pastor had the same stance in '99. Forgive, move on, work on the M- not dealing with the A.

I'm here for a second A that MrH had in '06.

Deal with the issues. MrH is trying to fill my love bank and he just can't because the issues from the A, that he's still tried to ignore, have left holes that make it impossible to fill.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11131 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Oldernotwiser
♀ Member
Member # 36408
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today I told him I wasn't sure that MB is what I need as it seems to avoid exactly what is causing me problems. He said it is spot on for what WE need and I don't like it because I want to stay in the hole I am in rather than follow advice that makes sense.
The reason he even looked at anything for help was because I let him know I am not feeling like I doing better, I am still struggling with a loss of feelings, I still trigger, I have to play mind games to get through the stuff I see in my head, and I am seriously thinking that I am way past the point of no return.
He hid everything for so long but, I have obviously used up the allotted time to forget. He loved the "don't bring up the past"


Me BS 54
WH 55
Married 34 years
2 grown sons
2 PA ? EA's didn't develop due to discovery

Posts: 85 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: midwest USA
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To get the entirety of what they are really saying, you have to read the books. The web stuff is meant to lure WS in to buy the books.

It is a marketing ploy....geared towards WS and BS who are contemplating trying to skip the intial first stages. Stages I believe are mandatory.

How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair....is the single best, quickest read for a WS. My wife did most of the suggestions but chose not to do some of them. Back then I was fine with that...was so grateful for anything she offered our M.

IF we had used the MB as our starting point I fear the results would have been dreadful. My wife would learn to do just a little more for our M and I would learn to move my threshold of what was acceptable and healthy within my M to her....and she would have another A in the future.

NOW I have changed. I would no longer be so grateful for what I was back then. I know I have changed and if my wife chooses anything adultery-related I will not fear it....I will face it full on!

NOW my wife has changed. I think she would actually do ALL of what is said in that book.


I do think ideas from MB, such as meeting needs and enthusiasitic agreement, are good ones that every M can benefit from. Think about how your life would have been different if your spouse came to you and said "I met this man, am thinking about fucking him, do you enthusiasically agree with this choice?"

The tending of needs....what if blakesteele was mature enough to 1. recognize I had needs and 2. mature enough to express them in a way my wife would understand? What if my wife could have done this? What if just ONE of us was mature enough to do this?????

But how realistic is it to work with a soldier coming back from a war zone, helping him through his trauma, but never recognizing he was actually IN a war?!?!? Sounds crazy....sounds crazy because it IS crazy.

I fail to see how "ignoring" helps a person heal.....isnt that what part of FOO issues are? a way to cope (ignore) a trauma we aren't equipped to handle.....then have it just kind of fade from our memory? Only it doesn't fade does it....it might, and usually does, get to the unconcious level...but it continues to influence us.

NOT HEALTHY.

Sin is a quick but ineffective fix.

I don't think any "quick" way through this is going to be effective. Not sure of the exact path....but I do believe those first initial steps of fully recognizing what the source of the trauma is is critical. Just don't see how you can process through it without first "defining it"....and a BS does this through repeatedly questioning and a fWS does this through owning all of the shit they gave birth to through their repeated decisions.

I have seen a number of SI members whos WS cheated on them years before, started doing what MB professes to do immediately, the BS trusted them (which I would have been willing to do too had my wife been immediately remorseful and super committed acting).....and then found their spouse fucking another person years down the road.

I am convinced we are doomed to repeat our cycles if we act like they never resulted in painful, traumatic experiences.

God be with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3609 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, December 16th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In Harley's system, who fills whose love bank?

IMO, only I can fill mine, and only my W can fill hers. We can support and influence each other, but that's it.

No matter how much love my partner gives me, I choose how much to take in. And I have to feel pretty good about myself to take love in - otherwise, IMO I'm too likely to reject love because I think I'm unworthy of it. That's how I lived my life for several decades.

And now I know that only I can fill my love bank. It's self-love (no jokes now) that opens the door, primes the savings account, and keeps the bank account sound even when times are tough.

My working hypothesis is that WSes experience a lot of pain and a sense of very low self-worth. They therefore reject a lot the love that comes their way, perhaps - probably - because they don't think they deserve it.

So, IMO, until after a WS does a lot of healing, there's no way to fill her love bank. She doesn't love herself, so she doesn't even open the door of her bank.

IDK - maybe Harley gets into that. I skimmed one of his books and didn't see anything along my lines of thought, but maybe I missed it.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9990 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
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