Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Nexttome (45693)

Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Need help..pls give a quick response if u can
whatamess11
♀ Member
Member # 37781
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's 13 months since reconciliation and 17 since d-day & Although my H and I have done a lot of work on ourselves and our M in some areas, he continues to feel and tell me that he no longer loves me, that he will never love me, that he doesn't care for me, that he hates me, and that he can never be happy with me again and that he longs to love someone again..anyone, but me. BTW, we function as a family, still laugh together, have great sex, and get away a lot with friends who don't know of our marital issues.

We all know this kind of talk is counterproductive to recovery, but they are his honest feelings, and we've been told that a person's feelings aren't wrong. Since we've agreed to reconciliation, he's self admittedly has had one foot out the door the whole time while in recovery, and he's been honest about that too. We've been in IC and MC for 17 months, and we go religiously.

I'm responsible for his pain and sadness and anger as I had an 18 month "love" affair with his best friend in which I got caught. Additionally, I won't let my H go b/c I do truly love him, and I want to make some right for my wrong to him, and I continue to do the work of a WS. The fact that I won't let him go pains him more.

Yes, he's on SI. He reads, but hasn't posted in quite sometime, and, honestly, I haven't posted in awhile either. But I think we both should.

He says I shouldn't expect him or anyone to get through something like this staying as a married couple, and that I should do the right thing and walk away from him and our M.

Everyone is different and he's made so much progress, but his feelings are those that I described. Am I really expecting too much? I keep saying to him that all the research says recovery takes at least 2-5 years and at most the rest of your lives depending on your definition of recovery.


D-Day 7/6/12 - My A was discovered that day; he confessed of his A's the day after
Me: WS/BS
HIM: WS/BS (Cantgetworse11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 62 | Registered: Dec 2012
IGaveItMyAll
♂ Member
Member # 38622
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry he hasn't found some sort of inner peace with this. As a BS sometimes it seems easier to just walk away so you don't have to feel this anymore. But Divorce is also a very painful event. I know I have felt like walking away when my needs aren't being met.

Let me ask you, does he ever tell you he loves you? Does he show you he cares? Ask him what would make him feel love from you and do it. Is he willing to work with you at all? Do you go on dates? Have you read 5 love languages? Thats a good book for meeting each others needs.

he continues to feel and tell me that he no longer loves me, that he will never love me, that he doesn't care for me, that he hates me, and that he can never be happy with me again and that he longs to love someone again..anyone, but me
Look I know you made messed up and destroyed him and your marriage as it was. I am just throwing this out there but, know one deserves to be treated this way. If he hates you, doesn't love you, not willing to try and find love again with you (I personally believe love doesn't just happen it takes work to stay in love especially over the years) maybe it was a deal breaker for him. I don't know different people process this stuff differently. Did you ever consider a trial seperation?


ME-BS 34
FWW-28
M 6 Yrs
DDAY- 8/20/12
R

Posts: 332 | Registered: Mar 2013
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Am I really expecting too much? I keep saying to him that all the research says recovery takes at least 2-5 years and at most the rest of your lives depending on your definition of recovery

Recovery takes 2-5 years if both spouses want to recover. You have someone that doesn't, apparently. Recovery isn't to see if you can love your spouse again. Recovery is trying to work it out because you still love your spouse. You are trying to recover from the hurt.

May I ask, if this is how he feels, why is he agreeing to a recovery attempt? It's been 13 months and he's still saying he is absolutely not interested. Has he said he wants to leave?


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know your situation is doubly complicated because of being MH. It's really good that you're continuing to do the WS work and owning it. Is this something you can keep doing, no matter the outcome of your M?

he continues to feel and tell me that he no longer loves me, that he will never love me, that he doesn't care for me, that he hates me, and that he can never be happy with me again and that he longs to love someone again..anyone, but me.

The fact that I won't let him go pains him more.

This is hard. As a BS he can have these feelings, and these feelings are normal. He could still be feeling in limbo - or he could realize that it was a deal-breaker and he genuinely needs to leave, in which case that has to be a decision you both respect.

At the same time, has he taken any ownership of his WS status? Wasn't he going around with this same "best friend" and hooking up with other girls? He says he wants to "love" someone again… How is his relationship with "love" in light of his own cheating? How does he knew he's not going to become a wayward again to someone else, or to you again if you guys stay together?

Frankly, while I get that your choices hurt him, and it sounds like you are owning that - his cheating choices beforehand don't exactly seem very loving either.

Do you get the sense, when he says that he can never be happy with you again, that he is asking for a way out? Or is he venting? If he would want to leave, then even though you're wanting to R, it sounds like you would need to respect his choice. I'm so sorry. Though it also sounds like he wants you to be the one who walks away… No. If he wants it to be over, then he needs to make the choice to walk, not wait for you to do it.

He, in turn, needs to decide. Is he all in (in which case, he needs to pull his foot back in), is he all out (in which case, he needs to make a solid decision around that), is he solidly in limbo - in which case, own that and be honest about that.

What are you working on right now, individually?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3917 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

we've been told that a person's feelings aren't wrong.

Hmm. Not sure what to make about this line. Sure people have "wrong" feelings. Or rather, feelings are not a great gauge of reality. Many waywards think they "love" their APs and come to realize, no -- it was just infatuation. I have been deluded into feeling all kinds of things in my life -- I mean, feelings aren't wrong in the sense that we have them, but how much weight we give them is up to us. Feelings are like clouds in the sky - they come and go. I can love my H with all my being, and be devastated with pain thinking about him the next. Which one is "real?"

So, I don't know - you paint a pretty bleak picture of your marriage right now. What does it mean that it pains him that you won't let him go? Do you sense that these things are true -- that he "hates" you? Or are these things he throws up in moments of anger? What is his day-to-day persona like?

Also, when were his affairs over?


me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2139 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry whatamess. It really is a mess isn't it?

I feel reconciliation means different things to different people.

Since we've agreed to reconciliation, he's self admittedly has had one foot out the door the whole time while in recovery
I wouldn't consider this reconciliation. Reconciliation, I feel, is when you both commit 100% to making the marriage work. It sounds as though your BH is keeping a wall up (understandable) and is staying detached emotionally. If you want to really reconcile you have to be vulnerable. I don't feel you can truly reconcile without being emotionally committed to your spouse. You can have a marriage of sorts, but it won't have love or intimacy, imo. Sadly, sometimes infidelity is a dealbreaker for the BS.
Am I really expecting too much? I
I can't say as I don't know what you are expecting.
He says I shouldn't expect him or anyone to get through something like this staying as a married couple
I agree with your BH. No one should expect someone who was betrayed in this way to stay married. The fact is, though, many, many do. But, for true reconciliation to happen both must be committed to all the hard work it takes and be open emotionally to their spouse.

eta: didn't notice you were madhatters. How do you feel about his affairs? Has he owned his shit?


[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 2:36 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9948 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If that is how he feels yet he is trying to R, then really it is false R. He isn't being honest with himself. For some people infidelity is a deal breaker. I still haven't figured out if it is for me or not.

Additionally, I won't let my H go b/c I do truly love him, and I want to make some right for my wrong to him, and I continue to do the work of a WS. The fact that I won't let him go pains him more.

You are being selfish. Let him go. If you really love him, let him go. You know by staying with you he is hurting even more but because you "love" him you won't let him go. Do you not see how that is all about how YOU feel?


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Alex CR
♀ Member
Member # 27968
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow.....not an easy situation. Only you and your H can decide if it's time to throw away the marriage, but I notice you have two kids. Depending on their ages, you may still have to interact with each other for years and bringing in someone else that he can really love will only complicate life for everyone.

In the scheme of things, it's not that long since Dday. As a BS, it was at least two years before I started to really feel more positive about my WS. And you both have to deal with being the BS and the WS......can't imagine how tough it all is while trying to raise a family.

Time helps as it gives us the space needed to work through the pain and the shock to get to our true feelings, but as someone else said both parties have to be committed.....

Wishing you and your family peace and hope you both find your way.


BS Me 61
WS Him 62
Married 33
Together 40
DD 11/16/09
The future looks good....

Posts: 1722 | Registered: Mar 2010
somanyyears
♂ Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


..just wondering if your BH is bidding his time, too afraid to actually leave and be on his own..

..staying for now because it's still comfortable and can see his kids and still get the sex.. but as others have posted, he doesn't sound 'committed' to the marriage..

..if he actually met someone, would he then make the move to S/D..???

..you say you won't let him go!!! is your H just not strong/determined enough to go?

.. judging from the things he's saying to you, it seems very cruel and unfeeling of him.. you shouldn't have to endure that kind of treatment.

..hope you can both get on the same page with healing..

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 67
Her 63
Married 42 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4134 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
Trying2Survive1
♀ Member
Member # 40022
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, recovery takes a long time and hard work by two committed spouses. We were madhatters too and were going through the motions of a false R for 7 years! I am sad to admit that we both had one foot out the door during that time. I would get angry and tell FWH that I hated him, didn't love him, etc....His response was to friend and text with his former ONS on FB just "in case" I left him. What a mess.

However, discovering his affair made me take a hard look at myself, him, and our relationship and if we really, really committed to working on ourselves and our M, maybe we could find each other again.

I wonder what kind of "love" your husband is looking for? As we all know, the fantasy "love" of an A is just that, fantasy.

Also, since you are both in C, what does your therapist say about his attitude?

He, in turn, needs to decide. Is he all in (in which case, he needs to pull his foot back in), is he all out (in which case, he needs to make a solid decision around that), is he solidly in limbo - in which case, own that and be honest about that

Like Silver said, why is he asking you to leave when you are willing and committed to R? If he is that unhappy and miserable why is he staying?


Madhatters, M 33 yrs
FWW/BS 58 BS/FWH 57
Separated 5 mos in 07.His DDay,11/07.False R since 07. My DDay,7/5/13."Once you are real you can't become unreal again. It lasts for always.”
― Margery Williams, The Velveteen Rabbit

Posts: 131 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: United States
whatamess11
♀ Member
Member # 37781
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All, Wow..ty ..your responses have been very helpful. I want to address your questions/points, and I will ry to be brief.

C1131716 - ty…Its' hard to hear, but maybe it's a false R. He has made a lot of process, but you may be right. I like to be hopeful and think he's doing the best he can. Also I'm being selfish that is true. I'm fighting for my H and my M, but I have both feet planted in R. However, maybe I need to take a rep back and think about what you said. I've heard many times here you have to be willing to let your M go to save it or for each party to heal properly. Ty..something to think about.

IGaveItMy All - I agree about divorce. It's painful too. He has never told me that he loves me since d-day. He has told me that he used to love me. His actions and the fact that he is still here does show me that he cares. Sometimes I see the H I knew b4 this mess unraveled. He feels he is working with me. We go out alone & with friends. He keeps planning events and vacations so to say, "well he have to stay together for 3 more months b/c we have that vaca coming up alone or with the kids…"to me this his one of the ways he's trying. I read the love languages book and we took the test and it and it was helpful.

Trial sep? - After d-day, he left for about 4 months, did his own thing..we spook every day about everything, including our A's and all…a very raw time. He decided he would give us a chance at R and his reasons were better for kids, better financially, and of court for our 20+ year relationship. At the time after d-day, we told our kids we were getting a D (probably a mistake) so now he doesn't want to separate unless he's 100% sure..and I understand that. He wants to try and do all that he can before that happens as do I..that is y we r both working so hard.

Painfulpast - It might be a deal breaker for him. R takes 2-5 years so I feel in R you gotta give 150% but both spouses have to want to R. I truly feel he wants to R, he's just not sure if he can. I like what you said: R isn't to see if you can love your spouse again. R is trying to work it out b/c you still love your spouse.

Silverhopes - Yes our situation is complicated b/c of MH status, and yes my H had many affairs with his best friend as you said. He has been in limbo from the start of R and I lknew that all along as he was honest about that and I'm trying to respect that. I will continue to own what I did and do the work as a WS no matter the outcome.He has taken ownership. He feels that since his A's were just sex with no EA that it's a fraction of that I did. He feels he had a charmed life before everything came out. I think sometimes he's just venting hen he says he will never be happy with me again, but I feel there's a lot of truth to that as well…sadly. I agree with you that for R to really be effective a person has to be all in so to speak. I continue to settle for his limbo status as I'm prettified of losing him as I really do love him. He has owned his limbo status, and I'm trying to respect it. I'm working on trying to heal and understand my wayward ways. And I have been really trying to help him in any way that I can, but he claims there is nothing I can do or say. So maybe C1131716 is right..idk.

Bionicgal - I like what you said…our feelings are how much weight e give them.

Sistermilkshake - Maybe this isn't reconciliation. I do feel he has a wall up which is understandable and yes I agree that he is staying detached emotionally. I actually feel he has always had a wall up. The counselors say a person must be vulnerable for R to be effective. He's afraid to be vulnerable and I get that.

I have to go yo my son's game so I apologize for errors and all. Ty all again..Any further response would be appreciated.


D-Day 7/6/12 - My A was discovered that day; he confessed of his A's the day after
Me: WS/BS
HIM: WS/BS (Cantgetworse11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 62 | Registered: Dec 2012
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm assuming you're reporting accurately. If you're not (and you may honestly be missing or misinterpreting something simply by mistake), my comments could be invalid.

Initial reactions:

Recovery takes 2-5 years of experience and work. What progress has your H made?

I don't think you're in R, either. It takes 2, and he isn't on board. That could work fine if he's willing to work on your M until he decides between R & D, but it doesn't sound like he is working on your M - in fact, he's saying things to you that sound abusive to me. Even if they're not abusive, they're counterproductive for R.

IMO, you've related your H's thoughts, not feelings (because feelings are mad, sad, glad, scared, and love in my system). It's relatively easy to change one's thinking. Does your H show any desire to do that?

You want R. My advice is: stay true to yourself - keep working for R.

If your H wants D, IMO it's up to him to file.

****************************************
Further thought:

Has your MC or IC mentioned the Drama Triangle to you? It sounds like your H is stuck in the Victim position, and you need to get off the Drama Triangle to R. If the Cs haven't mentioned the DT, maybe you need new Cs.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:19 PM, December 19th (Thursday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10570 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He feels that since his A's were just sex with no EA that it's a fraction of that I did.

That's not owning it. That's minimizing it.

I say that regardless of whatever happens with your M, he has NOT done the work on himself as a wayward. I would see that as a very big problem.

How is he about supporting your struggles as a BS?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3917 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
marionwendy
♀ Member
Member # 41303
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I couldn't stay.


BS-49
WS-50
Married-18
Together-21
Children-2

Life is not measured by the breaths we take
but by the moments that take our breath away.


Posts: 222 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: canada
whatamess11
♀ Member
Member # 37781
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All, wow.. I'm overwhelmed by all your responses. My H is trying but the details of the A, including the double betrayal, and the emotional part of it plague him... Cripple him in a way that he gets stuck in that groove where R can't be effective according to the counselors... And I'm responsible for those details so when he sees me that's what he sees. He is having a very hard time coming up from that. He has great pain in the fact that I gave the AP so much power with all the words that Were said to him and I trusted in him. My H feels that this is worse than the sex and I get that. I want my H to have happiness... I wish there was more of a way I could help him move through this. But I read recently here that the WS can help the BS heal in many ways but there's a part that only can be healed by the BS him/ herself.


D-Day 7/6/12 - My A was discovered that day; he confessed of his A's the day after
Me: WS/BS
HIM: WS/BS (Cantgetworse11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 62 | Registered: Dec 2012
Dare2Trust
♀ Member
Member # 21183
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, December 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whatamess11,

You stated:

The fact that I won't let him go pains him more
.

If your WH really wanted to be away from you; and IF he really wanted to divorce you....
He's a grown man - and he could simply leave, file for a divorce and be done with you and his marriage.

Personally - I question:
WHY do you want to remain married to a man who treats you this way...who talks to you this way?

he continues to feel and tell me that he no longer loves me, that he will never love me, that he doesn't care for me, that he hates me, and that he can never be happy with me again and that he longs to love someone again..anyone, but me


Me BS 59
WH 58
Married 19 years
D-Day Nov 3, 2005
Child: Adopted Daughter 21 College Student now

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.


Posts: 6186 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, December 20th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely missed that you're madhatters, and I apologize for that.

What you write says to me that your H is firmly planted on the Drama Triangle, switching from Victim (poor unloved BS) to Persecutor (minimizing WS). IMO, he will not be a good candidate for R until he gets off the DT.

He needs to feel his feelings as a BS and let them go, and he needs to take responsibility for his As and make changes so that he never betrays anybody again. Instead, he's holding onto his BS feelings and minimizing his own problems/failings.

You need to feel your feelings about being betrayed, too. I don't minimize the horror of your cheating; you have to deal with that and change. But you still feel the grief, anger, and fear of being cheated on, and you need to process those feelings.

I suggest searching the web on 'karpman drama triangle' and asking about it in a joint session. If your H's IC doesn't pick up on it, I'd ask why he doesn't think it's relevant.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10570 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Topic Posts: 17

Return to Forum: Reconciliation Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.