Regarding the 180, it says 'be pleasant', not 'never talk to WS'. If she asks how you sleep, say "Great. I'd really like to talk to DD now." That tells her you are absolutely just fine without her, but also you really aren't interested in being her friend without you sounding bitter or angry. Remember, the goal is to practice NOT being angry, bitter or dependent. Don't be angry with her. Answer her question in as few words as possible, as pleasantly as possible, and then ask to talk to DD. If she asks another question, just say "I'm really short on time, so if you could get DD, I'd appreciate it." That tells her, in a non-angry manner, that you really aren't interested in conversation with her.
As far as having a nanny goes, you may want to let WW know that you won't be paying for a nanny for her days, and that she will need to continue to pay for that on her own. Make her realize that her life is changing, and not for the better.
You're doing really well Felco - please keep up the good work. We're all here for you.
EDIT: Go to the therapy with your wife and daughter!!! Do not let her use therapy to turn the story to her not being the bad guy!!
[This message edited by painfulpast at 10:22 AM, December 30th (Monday)]
Age appropriate info needs to be given. I don't know how old your DD is, but it is perfectly reasonable to tell her that when people get married they make promises to each other..when one of them breaks a promise, the marriage is no longer the same..and mommy broke promises.
If you plan on moving out for an extended period then make sure you start getting your kids on a regular basis to establish a precedent for custody. Unless there is some legal stuff, 50/50 custody is the norm so make sure you see your kids at least that much or more and document each visit until you get something in writing from a lawyer. Even if this takes 2 years keep documenting. It may save you down teh line if your WW decided to go batshit crazy with accusations later on. Documenting everything should be the norm going forward. It's to protect you down the line. I wish you teh best.
ETA: ditto to what painfulpast said about therapy. You go to the sessions as well.
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:30 AM, December 30th (Monday)]
I also encourage you to use a HARD 180 on her. She is deep in the fog, and being nice just answering simple questions, shows her little to no consequence for her actions. Until she really starts to feel how this is going to change her life, for the worse she isn't going to make any changes.
It feels like you're saying this because you feel bad about leaving. At some point one of you will need to leave, and the kids will be in the same spot as they are now. Living together can be prolonging the agony, for all involved. Please remember that.
If your lawyer said to go home, then yes, you should. If not, please think if you're doing this because you want to. Because it's comfortable.
Remember, you being there is showing her that you are still there, no matter what. The effect is basically nothing. She keeps doing what she wants.
She is NOT moving on just fine. First it was about making a schedule for the kids. Now it's about counseling. She's continually driving forward so she doesn't need to look at the mess she's made. At some point, she needs to. You living with her doesn't force that, or anything else.
It's your decision, but please think if this is about not wanting to pull the bandaid off.
I was simply saying if the child is asking, she deserves answers. He can ask his WW not to talk to DD about it until they are all together and can talk to the kids..but he can't make her do anything. She most likely will continue to answer the child and give it her own little spin. Because of this, I feel it is even more important that Felco answer his DD honestly, yet age appropriately.
Felco, I didn't realize your little girl was only 3. But she is old enough to understand what a promise is.
..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.
And having seen the clarification, I think your advice is spot on.
Sorry - and thanks again!!
Him: How was your day?
Me: Fine, thank you. (keeps on walking through the house to put down my stuff in my bedroom.
Him: Let me tell you about my day
Me: No thank you
Him: Starts to tell me about his day...
Me: (continues to walk) that's nice.
Pretty much no engagement. No interest in their life or what they are doing. Only engaged for necessary things, then to the point and as short of a time as possible. Keeping a slightly bored, vaguely pleasantly neutral look. As I would a co-worker who was wasting my time, I would keep the contact surface and as shallow/quick as possible.
D-Day, June 10, 2012
Keep us updated; SI support is just a post away.
I guess she never thought of this. She's just delusional.
I spoke to her friend and she and another fiend are meeting with her on Friday and they want to knock some sense in her. They are very upset with her actions. (I know that they cannot change her).
I know this is incredibly hard, but you really do need to focus on yourself and the kids. As far as family time goes, I would try to eliminate that totally. For your own sanity. It really is less upsetting for your kids to have daddy time without seeing him anxious, and nervous, and sad which is what they would see if you tried to play happy family.
If you can, try to discuss with her that you will take the kids for the entirety of the day. Plan a day together, if it includes weekly chores, like getting the oil changed or going to the store then do it, but be sure to add in something fun for all of you.
You can do this, you will make it through and a year from now you will be amazed at the changes you have made in yourself.
Don't give her the pleasure of your company. Continue the 180 - pleasant but short. Don't initiate ANY conversations with her. Don't engage, at all, no matter how much you want to.
Print the 180 out, or put a copy of it on your phone, and read it daily, if not more. Read it as soon as you wake in the morning, during the day whenever you feel like breaking it, and the last thing before bed.
Remember, it's about YOU. Strengthening YOU.
As far as family time goes, I would try to eliminate that totally.
Felco, I agree with TN. My STBX--even when we were separated--wanted to continue with our "family time." This for her was a form of cake-eating: she got to have her husband and the OM on the side. It was very difficult for me to resist these "false family" activities, since I wanted so desperately to believe that it meant everything was "normal" and would work out.
I also rationalized--briefly--that this might also be less disruptive for the children. But then I realized that the opposite would be true. My children would be more confused as they were so hopeful that we would get back together and would have clung to this as evidence that we would.
The times that I gave into my own neediness and lapsed back into "family time" it ended up crushing me emotionally and setting back my healing.
As you say,
It's about doing what's right for me and the kids.
And what is best for you and your kids is to begin the process of real separation. I was exactly where you were, both emotionally and situationally, and someone (probably lots of people) on SI reminded me that this is not "real" family time. It is an illusion. Very very hard to internalize, I know.
Be strong, Felco, and continue your 180--hard. For you and for your children.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
1) Eating right, staying away from bad food?
2) Working out, building muscle, losing weight?
3) Seeing to your emotional health, getting counseling, taking antidepresants?
Use his time to improve yourself. Go back and start doing the old hobbies you quit for her sake. Start hanging out with your buddies more. Start going out more... make her stay home and take care of the kids.
Throw out your old clothes and buy nice, sleek modern clothes that make you look and feel more attractive. Start talking to other women... try flirting. You don't need to cheat, but just having nice conversations with other women can boost your self-esteem.
Start living for yourself and avoid staying home and moping.
Oh and never, ever stay home with the kids while she goes out with the OM. Let her know you are not her babysitter. If she does any way, hire a sitter and go out yourself and have fun.
[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 2:25 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)]
Divorcing her sorry a--.
I just took some time off and went to see the kids while they are with the nanny. MUCH needed!!
These past two days have given me strength and as time goes by, things will become clearer.
Thanks again to all of you.
This Forum has been a blessing.
Has your attorney given you ideas on how you can legally and carefully force her out of the house if she won't leave? Is she being a fit parent? My WS announced I would need law enforcement to remove him. I didn't engage in that bullshit and told him we're not talking about that now (but if we were, he made the decision to cheat, and with that the consequence is he doesn't get to live with me anymore).
[This message edited by tagalong at 4:26 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)]
my WS is 7 years older
we have been together 21 years
DDay for last known EA: December 15, 2013
WS had prior known short EA with a kiss years before
WS exhibiting textbook mid-life crisis behaviors,