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Divorce/Separation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Out of denial
Starzjourney
♀ Member
Member # 41287
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So here I am...was hoping to skip the need for support on this thread...oh well, another disappointment.

I have spent the last few days in a deep funk...My STBXWS told me the other day that I "should forgive him"..."I should be happy for him"..."I should be his friend, he doesn't hate me after all"...

I started reading posts on forgiveness here and they all say the same, that in order for me to be happy I need to forgive him and I just don't agree, how does one forgive someone who is such an arrogant ass...anyone else struggling with this?

I have been NC on and off a few times, broken out of necessity out of one situation with our D or another, finances. When this happens he takes the opportunity to say this type of nonsense then tell me I am being unreasonable, childish and that this is why he get's along with OW better than me...

He is an a$$clown and I get that...it's the internal struggle that somehow I am wrong for feeling the way I do...

Thanks in advance...


Posts: 146 | Registered: Nov 2013
Catwoman
♀ Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am of the view that you do not need to forgive to heal.

Forgiving someone who is not remorseful, who doesn't want to work to fix things AND who is so entitled that he expects you are supposd to be happy for him is not going to be good for you.

In fact, Janis Abrams Spring calls it "cheap forgiveness."

That being said, I do believe that one must accept in order to heal. And of course, that acceptance takes time and progresses through various stages.

I do not forgive my ex. He made a series of deliberately hurtful decisions which impacted my life and that of his children forever. He further compounded this by requiring the kids to lie to me, playing games with money (games that persist to this day) and costing me literally thousands in attorney fees.

Forgive? Not when the behavior continues.

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29540 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
inconnu
♀ Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have the same line of thought as Cat does. There are just some things that I won't forgive ex for. And no, he's not my friend and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

It did take a while to accept that I didn't know him like I thought I did, that he really is capable of doing what he did. But I did get to the point where I accepted it, and I've moved forward in my life ever since.

Not forgiving him has not in anyway slowed down my healing, nor diminished my quality of life.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12122 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
soveryweary
♀ Member
Member # 32265
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too, agree that not forgiving my STBX is in any way impeding my healing. I haven't forgiven him, the hell he put me through for over four years is just something I cannot forgive. But that's just me.
I am also of the belief that "things happen for a reason" is a bunch of bull.
Each of us has to heal the way we need to.


Divorced 1/3/14

Posts: 603 | Registered: May 2011
Phoenix1
♀ Member
Member # 38928
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am very happy not to forgive. I don't see that ever happening, and I don't see that as having hindered my healing in any way. I have accepted the situation and who he really is. I don't seethe with anger on a daily basis anymore except when he pulls some really boneheaded stunt, but I get past it quickly now.

My happiness is no longer tied to him in any way. It is all on me now and I intend to make the best possible life I can!

Forgive 20 years of infidelity? Maybe when hell freezes over...


BS - Me
XPOS - too many OW/OCs over 20+yrs
Kids - DDs 22,17 -DS20 Deceased
M Dissolved 2013

This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man ~ Shakespeare, Hamlet


Posts: 959 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Rising out of Hell's ashes!
Lola7
♀ Member
Member # 41195
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You don't have to forgive anything. Stay with strict NC as much as you can and you will get stronger and see this moron for what he is.

Honestly, if he pushed you in front of a moving train, would he say you'd have to forgive him to be happy? F*ck him.

Cheaters who say this kind of crap are delusional and mis-wired. I wouldn't forgive a person who broke into my house and robbed me, I sure as shit won't forgive my asshat STBXH for cheating on me and breaking every promise he's ever made to me.


caelitus mihi vires
"My strength is from heaven"
DIVORCED!

Posts: 211 | Registered: Nov 2013
dmari
♀ Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've discussed this with my therapist many times I also had the impression that I had to forgive in order for me to be happy. I was wrong. It seems that you are not far from your dday ~ don't waste time pondering forgiveness. Focus on you ~ all your thoughts on grieving, healing and rebuilding you.

All the shit he is spewing at you ~ so typical. He is like every other wayward. In time, you will become stronger and you will recognize his immature behavior for what it is and think "what a dipshit".

You don't need to forgive to move forward. Please work on being NC. You know the saying NC = no new hurts.


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 18, DS 15
Mediation date: 7/10/14 and 7/22/14
Final final court date: Oct 2014

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Oct 2012
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

."I should be his friend, he doesn't hate me after all"...
Because you did something to him equally as heinous as what he put you through? Uh huh. Right.

((((starzjourney))))


You can call me NIK

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
- Plato


Posts: 24393 | Registered: Aug 2011
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think you have to forgive. I have not forgiven nor do I anticipate ever doing so. I went through a stage where I was actively angry, and wanted HIM to hurt like I hurt. Waiting for that to happen and holding onto the RAGE was hurting me. The saying that holding onto anger is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die finally sunk in for me. I let go of the anger that was poisoning my daily life. But I have not forgiven him for what he did.

I don't like him. I don't approve of him or his actions, past or present. He doesn't need or deserve my friendship.

I call this self respect and having boundaries and good modeling of how to treat people who walk all over you.

Your STBX wants you to be happy for him so he can let go of guilt. His problem, not yours.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 13 DS 10
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5583 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Starzjourney
♀ Member
Member # 41287
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your responses (((((all of you)))))

Don't know who Janis Abrams Spring is but I sure intend to find out.

My story is in the link in my sig line...long story short...we were married, divorced over a previous affair of his...I was foolish enough to give him a second chance. Latest D-Day was 4/9/13 with one OW and 6/3/13 with latest so I am pretty far out from that. I handle most of his spews by just laughing at him or using snarky comments to shut him down when he starts. I know him well enough to know at this point that he is doing it to feed his incessant need for external validation, since he has given himself plenty of reasons to not like himself, much less love himself...he is also PA/EU...it wasn't him saying it that got to me as much as seemingly having it validated here an in other places so it is so good to know that there are others who feel the same as me about this.

I think am actually starting to feel pity for him sad to say.

We have a legal separation agreement...for financial reasons we will be married for a little while yet but there are several details in which I need him to do certain things and he just refuses...something as simple as signing docs to close a joint banking account we have will lead to him "spewing"...At this point I think it's best for me to go as dark as possible. Our D is 18, still in HS though and he does exercise visitation because he's gotta make himself look like a good father on social media for OW since she has young children... although in "real life" he really doesn't do anything with D when she is with him...she can't even get him to watch a movie with her because he is too busy on FB, SKYPE or phone with OW...either way, I keep telling him that he and D can arrange their visits w/o my help and in typical a$$clown fashion he will still call me to discuss... ... My goal this week...not to be drawn in...

Thanks again everyone!!!


Posts: 146 | Registered: Nov 2013
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive him? Fuck that.

A friend has convinced me that The Princess has actually done me a favour by finally making our marriage unbearable. Up until that point, it should have been unbearable, but I just kept hanging on.

I have accepted it to be true that she may have done me a favour, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't her intention.

And I'm sure as fuck not ready to thank her for it! I'm totally fine with that.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after married 17 years, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1666 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Starzjourney
♀ Member
Member # 41287
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, December 29th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you to the person who PM'd me on the bank account...since I have been mostly a lurker I haven't yet reached the required # of posts to respond in kind.

STBXWH explanation is that because he has his retirement pay DD into the account and uses the account for an auto draft on a bill every month he hasn't (in 3+ months since separation docs signed) had time to change everything so that the account can be closed, hence the argument...the PA side procrastinating because I want the account closed. I live in a different state now and it would be a huge pain in the a$$ to have to run there every time he doesn't follow separation agreement so it has become not worth the argument...let the little boy have his tantrum...if I don't mention it he will finally do it and wander loudly to me why I didn't get it taken care of before...I am so glad he can't see me in my moments.


Posts: 146 | Registered: Nov 2013
Starzjourney
♀ Member
Member # 41287
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ha...I can PM...LOL...

Thanks for your response Pass...


Posts: 146 | Registered: Nov 2013
BAB61
♀ Member
Member # 41181
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe in forgive, but never forget. Forgive so you can let go, not so that their behavior is excused. I will most likely NEVER tell STBX that I forgive him. I'm not at that point now, and who knows how long it will take me to get there. I will do that for me.

NC allows contact regarding kids/finances and other issues that require both of you to resolve ... so you haven't broken NC. Just ignore his attempts to engage in anything beyond what is necessary.

it's the internal struggle that somehow I am wrong for feeling the way I do...

However you feel is how you feel, there is no wrong way to feel. Just make sure you don't follow through on feelings that involve bodily harm. I told my STBX that women have killed for less than this and he was lucky that I couldn't figure out a way to get away with it!


Boss A** B*tch
BS/52 Me, STBXpos/56, dd's 16&14
1st D-day 10/19/2013 EA/PA
2nd D-day 12/7/2013 LTA/Rendezvous
S 12/7/2013 No-fault state, 6 mo S, counting down the days.

Posts: 1271 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: DE
shiloe
♀ Member
Member # 1224
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I forgave him the first time. All it did was allow him to use me again.

Sympathy, compassion and forgiveness should not be handed-out wholesale to remorseless, selfish and unrepentant adulterers.

F.T.G.

They just want to say, see, what I did was not so bad.


But remember, good love is hard to find . . -Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
BS - 54
Cheater -54
Married 26 yrs
DD - 21 DD -19 DS-17
A#1 2000 with married ho-worker/neighbor ow#1
A#2 2007-? OW#2 LTA with married ho-worker. Kicked him out, he filed

Posts: 570 | Registered: Mar 2003
Starzjourney
♀ Member
Member # 41287
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silly me...

What does FTG stand for...


Posts: 146 | Registered: Nov 2013
devistatedmom
♀ Member
Member # 24961
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FTG...F*ck that Guy.


Nope. I don't forgive my XH. Watching what he did to me, my kids and continues to do....nope. No forgiveness here.

I do forgive myself however. I forgive myself for allowing him to do this twice. I forgive myself for not seeing the signs. I forgive myself for wasting my time with him. I forgive myself for my shortcomings in the marriage. I take no responsibility for our marriage ending.


BS(me) 46, Two wonderful teens.
He is no longer my best friend. Repeat until it sticks.

WH says marriage is over: May 15, 2009.
EA#2 July 20, 2009. Legally sep: Aug 16, 2009. DIVORCED!!!! Signed Nov 23, final Dec 24, 2010, adultery listed.


Posts: 5361 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Canada
ButterflyGirl
♀ Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I don't forgive either, but I think my main goals have been acceptance and indifference, and I'm achieving those more and more each and every day, and I think NC is the biggest help.

I've gotten really close to completely breaking my "give a fuck" when it comes to him, so forgiving isn't a priority. Whether he apologizes or I forgive, whatever. I just focus on trying not to care about it anymore.


xBW~ 35
Two of the most darling sons ~ 10 and 6

Posts: 1991 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
HurtsButImOK
♀ Member
Member # 38865
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't believe it is about 'forgiveness' so much as reaching a place of letting go bitterness and anger that are (long term) harmful to you and your well being.

I choose not to forgive x, he has done nothing to deserve it. I choose to accept and move forward onto a better life and a better me.

((((Starzjourney))))


Me: Awesome - 35

"I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel". –Maya Angelou

"When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be". –


Posts: 722 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Australia
Starzjourney
♀ Member
Member # 41287
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, December 30th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soveryweary-

I am also of the belief that "things happen for a reason" is a bunch of bull.

Me too...STBXWH says this often...I tell him for me it's a matter of perspective...he gave me so many reasons to cheat and I didn't...I asked him to explain why he thinks that happened...crickets...

Things happen because people make selfish choices...he fell out of love...okay...fall out of my bed before falling into someone else's...simple...and he calls me complicated..

Thanks devastated...you are right...FTG. To me, your comment below is what/who I should be forgiving...I hope I get there soon....right now I am still too angry with myself to forgive myself.

I do forgive myself however. I forgive myself for allowing him to do this twice. I forgive myself for not seeing the signs. I forgive myself for wasting my time with him. I forgive myself for my shortcomings in the marriage. I take no responsibility for our marriage ending.



Posts: 146 | Registered: Nov 2013
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