He is pushing your buttons - the ones he installed! Don't fall for it. The only way things will change - is if things change! Someone has to break the pattern - if it isn't you then who? Cause he wants things to continue as they were...and that doesn't bode well for your sanity, security, or soul.
eta: his "not afraid" comments are designed to tweak you - because he knows you are afraid! See my tagline.
[This message edited by Take2 at 10:01 AM, January 2nd (Thursday)]
Your husband is abusive and a bully. Have you noticed it is a one way street with him? His way??
Have you considered calling your local abuse hotline, and asking them to recommend a counselor experienced in dealing with manipulative, emotionally abusive men?
I just read this entire thread - and your H is a complete jackass!!!
I know when we're in it, it's hard to see, but it's very obvious the games he's playing. I'm so glad to read you aren't falling for these childish tactics any longer. You deserve better.
If your gut is screaming, your H, your MC, and everyone else on the planet can tell you to stop digging, and your gut will keep screaming, and you'll keep wondering, and it will be a problem forever.
Here is the problem with a WS that only admits to what they are caught at - a BS can never believe them when they say they didn't do something. It's so damaging, and it really wears on the BS - in this case, YOU.
Please don't give in to his games. You have every right to let him know that you will not live with his games forever, and to let him know that you will end the marriage if he cannot understand what he's done and work to help heal the damage.
I would also question if he sent that last text at his parents' insistence, or because of their nagging at him about his actions. I don't even believe he would have said that much if he wasn't being told he was wrong by an outside party.
(1) he's playing victim. You are the injured party here. What he gets to deal with are called consequences of his actions.
(2) why does he think that he gets to tell you what you *need* to stop doing?
(3) demean, deride, and discount much?
(4) he considers being asked a question as being attacked? That's ludicrous.
And now here comes the bluster and the *challenges*:
(5) how nice of him to give you *permission*.....(and notice that he says this again in his next sentence.
(6) Funny thing here is that for all of his pissiness over you threatening him......HE is actually the one who is making the veiled threats.
(7) Since you are actually demanding something for yourself that you deserve as a human being.....there's obviously () something wrong with you.
(8) *just* angry. <--this right here is the statement that *I* find most offensive. How belittling and condescending of him. Does he also refer to you as "his little wifey?"
[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 10:05 AM, January 2nd (Thursday)]
In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.
I've been here on SI since Jan '07. So this means I'm heading into my 7th year of reading people's stories and learning about infidelity.
I've been dealing with infidelity in one form or another off and on since my first year of M, '94. We have done the rug sweeping thing, we have done the "confess the wrongs you did and leave it all in the past thing, and most recently we've done the "answer questions with parameters" thing. Unfortunately I let MrH set the parameters on the advice of our then MC. Since then I had let other people dictate what I needed to heal, even when I knew in my heart AND my head what I needed. Very rarely do the two line up, so I really should've listened to myself.
Here I am, looking at the 7th year out from this and still in pain from unanswered questions and unaddressed issues. Those people who told me that it was in the past, or I didn't need the questions answered...they're not living my life. They haven't had to be in my skin while I fought the pain. While I sought the AD that would finally kill these feelings. While I tried to cut the feelings out and fought the urge to kill myself because it never ends. While I looked at my kids and balanced having them live in two homes vs. one with a dad that in all other ways is seeking how to grow into a better husband but who won't deal with the one issue that keeps me at arms length from him.
No. You don't want to convince yourself you need less than what you need to heal. You don't want other people to decide what you need to heal. That's why, IIRC, in an earlier post I mentioned for you to make a list of the minimum requirements for R. Because you'll get as little as you ask for. Your WH is acting just like MrH acted after his A w/ xOw1. Our pastor at the time had the "forgive and leave it in the past" attitude that your MC seems to have. What happened was I couldn't ask any questions. I buried it, he buried it. We never dealt with why and he cheated again. This time with the help of SI I refused rug sweeping. But, because it was so much better than the last time, I also accepted less than what I knew I needed.
For the past couple of years I've finally had an IC who doesn't believe I should shut up and bury it. She's helped me heal myself, but my pain comes from staying in a M that isn't healed. You can heal without him. But to stay M, in a M worth having, he needs to get on board and participate.
Believe me, you don't want this. You don't want to live in limbo. You need what you need. Why? Because it's not the past to you. It's the present to you and you need to integrate it into your past. Darning is a lost art in the days of manufacturing. What you would do to repair the hole in the sock wasn't just stitching the edges together. You would fill it in with new stitches so the form was as close to what it was before. The gap had to be filled in or it shifted and dug. It wasn't easy but it had to be done right to work. This is what we BSs are doing with our questions. We had a M we thought was true and found out it wasn't. We are now trying to fill in the holes to rewrite our reality.
Additionally, in the book Not Just Friends, Glass talks about windows and walls. In answering these questions the WS is building walls between them and the OP and windows between us and them. It's knocking down the walls that were there. It's how you get the bricks to rebuild your M.
A WS that doesn't answer questions doesn't have to own their actions. They don't have to see the truth of what it did to their BS. They are more likely to cheat again. This is currently your WH. He doesn't get it. He doesn't get that this could be a deal breaker. That he has a responsibility for walking with you in the process of healing your M. He doesn't get to make the choices. The only choice he gets to make is does he stay with you and do the work or does he not do the work and GTFO.
I had posted multiple times on your post from this fall, and I hate just hate that things happened the way I thought they would.
I also see that you are starting to gain some strength, and some footing. It's time for you make yourself a priority. It's time for you to make the changes you can to improve your life.
You realize that you can NOT make him or anyone else for that matter do anything they don't want to do, and that can be painful, and upsetting. But this self centered NPD pig will not get to a point where he realizes that you are not at fault. He will not say you were right, I hurt you and I am sorry, and honestly believe it.
Please Please Please understand that it takes all of us time to get to the point of enough is enough, and do not beat yourself up that you now have reached the point of starting to see the real man behind the curtain. He is showing you who he is, and you should believe him.
When you find yourself doubting your decisions, and your choices look at this as an outsider, or some man treating your daughter like this. What would you want for her?
Certainly not a pig that lies and blames and tells you to let it go, that you can't heal, and he can't live the threats.
As far as the threats go tell him they aren't threats anymore, and have him served. I guarantee you that he is still seeing, or in contact with OW, or has a new one. The whole sweet angry cycle screams of it.
Look at this as the blessing that it is. YOU have seen him for who he really is. YOU are young, smart, capable, and fierce. YOU will find your own happiness without him, and realize just how wonderful life can be, and then you will have the ability to choose if you want a real man in your life or not.
YOU have the opportunity to raise your daughter in a home where mom demands the respect she deserves, and accepts nothing less. This is the greatest gift of all. His actions will allow you to raise a beautiful strong smart fierce girl who will never tolerate this cycle of abuse herself.
This is exactly where I am at. I gave him very specific requirements for R and he agreed to them all. His behavior, when not angry, seems to bell to a different person. My uncle recently lost his job & my WH knew I wanted to help them. He, without prompting, offered my aunt and uncle as much financial support we can provide until another job was found.
He arranged activities for us, started making grand plans for our DD first birthday, would go out of his way to help me with the baby, put gas in my car and wash it when I was not aware, just be an absolute dream.. I could see just how desperate he was to make me happy, keep me distracted, so we could push past the A and never look back. These behaviors are what kept me here so long. The second I threw a wrench in this new path we were on, it was game over. I was triggered to whatever reason and I let the questions and accusations fly. I derailed us from the path, hence was the reason we were not moving forward while he was desperately pushing us along, full force. I didn't want to be like this always. I enjoyed the moments when I could put it behind me and just enjoy being a family. There were just some moments when I couldn't avoid the pain, fear, anger, disgust, curiosity, paranoia, and suspicions and I gave in to them. I do think we could have continued moving forward if he were more patient and transparent during these times. Unfortunately, he viewed it as punishment and thought I was trying to sabotage our efforts. I didn't intend to do either. I wanted him to ride it out with me.
~~Tao Te Ching
If this was your daughter who was going through this, what would you advise her to do?
Remember....she is learning about relationships from observing.
But, I agree, it was a way to distract you from the elephant in the room, to keep you away from the curtain and the man behind it. The problem with how he wants to *fix* this (by ignoring it) is that you have to concede that your feelings on the matter don't matter. That he doesn't see you as entitled to truth of his A or your M. (not an equal partner - not deserving of respect and honesty.) That what he did is considered none of your business - is a block to true intimacy. Secrets destroy - trust is based on truth.
((statistic)) and strength!
I think trying the 180 sounds like a good approach. He's not meeting your needs and continues to hurt you.
I will say that I see shades of my WH here, early after D-Day. Not as extreme, but still...he wanted to rug sweep, blamed my digging for causing our issues. He has a hard time acknowledging his emotions and poor coping skills, so he used anger as a defense. Usually it meant there were more details he was keeping back.
We've made a ton of progress, but I know how terrible that feels, and how out of control. How much you need them to know they are the ones messing everything up.
Lots of hugs for you. As long as he's refusing to give you what you need, I'd refuse to communicate at all.
Has he read the How to help your spouse heal from an affair book?
After a few weeks, he told me he was working on himself, promised he wasn't talking to anyone and confessed his love for me. We started working on things after a couple of weeks. He was wining and dining me, getting me breakfast in bed, even little things like taking my car and washing it like your wh. I thought he was finally "getting it." He took me away for a weekend, came back and went cold, accusing me of cheating, name calling, telling me he couldn't be with me, etc.
We worked it out again and this pattern has repeated every couple of weeks since. I notice he seems to pick these fights before the weekends, blame me afterwards for ruining our weekend and accuses me of cheating, making himself the victim. Each time I convince him I have never even talked to another guy, he gets his ego boost, and I'm left wondering what sets him off, what I do wrong.
He cancelled our plans the Monday night before Christmas,saying he was sick. The next morning, Christmas Eve, he sent 3 texts accusing me of being with another man that night. Again, I explained to him I was home alone. I felt in my gut that something was still going on and sent him a text similiar to what you sent your on Christmas Eve. In return, I got almost word for word what your wh text you, basically saying he can not deal with ME anymore, wished me and my family a Merry Christmas, hoped that I get all I deserve and that he would as well, followed by a take care.
I pleaded with him as to what is going on and asked to talk. He responded with "no more talk. take care" I haven't heard a word since. Christmas was horrible, the fact that he can not take any of the blame. I have put up with SOOOOO much, trying to rebuild our M, and HE dumped ME for telling him what I needed to heal because it was too much to ask.. Heartless.
Ally- I'm so sorry you've gone through something similar. It's paralyzing and I can't think of anything else. I cannot beleive my WH, just like yours, can just cut and run after all the damage has been done. I assumed, incorrectly, that when someone hurts someone so deeply and is given a chance to make good, that the individual would do an awful lot to make amends instead of run because he is uncomfortable. Wow. Just wow. I can't imagine betraying my mom or father or daughter and walking away because what they needed from me made me unhappy. I feel abandoned all over again.
Holly- he did nice things before the affair, but he's turned up the "niceness" whenever he seemed to "get it." Since I found out about the affair- he's said & done things
I did not know he was capable of- name calling, throwing things at the ground or wall when I would incessantly ask him about the affair, threaten to hurt himself bc he said I was driving him to want to kill himself. He's not been the nicest person before the affair in term of anger and I let it slide because I thought our marriage was worth it. No one is perfect. So I may have a very skewed perception of what is normal and abnormal in terms of anger and abusive behavior.
I just wanted to say that you should not feel like you are not being a willing partner in the R of your marriage.
I think this is one of the biggest hurtles to overcome in trying to R. You, as the BS getting ALL of the details of the A.
There were just some moments when I couldn't avoid the pain, fear, anger, disgust, curiosity, paranoia, and suspicions and I gave in to them.
THAT^^^is real. Don't turn off your instincts for anyone.
I know with all of your heart you want to R with the 'good guy' part of your husband. It is very sweet when he does the right thing and its even better when he does it on their own, no prompting.
BUT...you have every right to know what took place in your marriage. Please do not have any misgivings regarding your searching and digging to find out the TRUTH in your own life. Believe me, you are entitled to know what happened in your own life!
NEVER give that up. No matter who tells you to let go of the past, this is not a healthy thing to do. Feel free to dig as much as you like, ask as many questions as it takes to make you comfortable.
Like what Holly-Isis said:
You need what you need. Why? Because it's not the past to you. It's the present to you and you need to integrate it into your past. Darning is a lost art in the days of manufacturing. What you would do to repair the hole in the sock wasn't just stitching the edges together. You would fill it in with new stitches so the form was as close to what it was before. The gap had to be filled in or it shifted and dug. It wasn't easy but it had to be done right to work. This is what we BSs are doing with our questions. We had a M we thought was true and found out it wasn't. We are now trying to fill in the holes to rewrite our reality.
THIS^^^ is it in a nutshell. You and only you can determine how you rewrite and process your new reality. "Your husband took a lover and lied about it." Any and all info regarding that should be given to you, willingly. Period. It takes a while to get used to your 'New Normal'.
You are not a child, you have a right to know.
Take care my dear Statistic.
Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
I've not hear from. The feeling of abandonment is heavy. I am embarrassed that not only did my WH cheat on me, he left me afterwards. I can't help but feel inadequate, undesirable, and unworthy. The marriage we created wasn't strong enough, worthy, fulfilling enough to keep him from desiring affection and excitement outside the marriage.
I feel like an absolute failure - alone and pathetic. Even with a baby girl, our family wasn't enough.
How on earth can the OW be so desirable? Irresistible? How can sex with her be worth the lives of those around him? She I saw the texts and emails. She chased him to no end and tried even harder the minute he said "no." He was flattered by the chase and excited by the opportunity to be with someone new and gave in. He treated her better than he has treated me. I'm sure he was never emotionally abusive to her. These are all questions that cannot be answered. I just don't want to reach out to him so I post here. I may start a journal so I can vent elsewhere.
By the way, I have an appt with a new therapist Monday. Thank you for keeping me afloat.
Seriously....why would you want this jerk around your precious daughter?
I think it is great you are posting here. These messages will be archived here so you can go back and actually see your growth and restored strength.
You ARE doing the right things to get away from him. I know you don't fully believe that, but all of us are rooting for you. You can do this....you can and will start a new life where you treasure yourself and model that for your baby.
I feel exactally the same. It has been since Christmas Eve. I put up with so much, cheating, abuse, trying to get him to understand how he hurt me. He couldn't be with me because of my expectations and ended it blaming me. He can not accept responsibility. It's like he is mad at me.
It is not us. It is them. Mine has been up to his narcissistic ways for 16+ yrs and treated all of his exs the same. I have gotten to know them and have discovered it is just who HE is. Your wH will treat the next one just as he has treated you. This type of person is all about himself. They are not capable of real empathy.