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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: A startling conversation PT.2
Senraba02
♀ New Member
Member # 41630
Stop  Posted: 6:31 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ME: I just wanted to say I'm sorry. Yesterday in our texts, I showed a lack of empathy. I wasn't listening to you or trying to see through your eyes. You opened up to me and told me how being close to me "felt". Not that you didn't "want" to be close to me. I want nothing more than to get to a place when the only thing we are thinking about is one another when we are together or apart. I love you and I desire to be close to you. Maybe the only way is to push through some of those thoughts and feelings. Idk, I am willing to do whatever you need and wait as long as I need to because I love you. When you are ready, I will be here.

Him:
All I can think about still is why you weren't willing to do that for me/us then. Every time we are close or you say something like that I can't help but think if it was really true something inside you would have stopped. And you didn't.

Me:
I know. And that is why we are where we are. I can't change what was. I can only do what I can now. I think, thinking the way you do is normal. And understandable. I'm trying to think of the proper way to respond without being defensive. I'm not even sure what to say. I was wrong and selfish and I wasn't being respectful or caring, just a horrible person. Im trying to live every moment of every day to be the best I can be and give you what you need to see that I am sincere and committed to us. To you. I know that right now my words don't have value to you. But I'm hoping my actions and showing you do.

Him:
I just don't know if I'll ever be able to make sense of it. I know you can't change it. It is what it is. But I have to accept it and be able to live with it. I just don't know if I can. I feel like something died inside me. I keep thinking about certain things and they just kill me. I just can't understand how I was so wrong. How I could be so blind. How I could have so much trust and faith in you. I know your explanation for everything. I do understand it. But I don't necessarily believe it. And I don't know what to do. These triggers and memories seem to be worse. Not "more painful" than they were. Just more sad, I guess is the right word. I see you with him and it just crushes every think inside me.

Me:
Please don't feel like it's your fault or that you are to blame. What I've done to you is despicable. And you weren't blind and you wrong. I was that person and I am that person again. I just have so much faith in you that we will push through. I know the triggers are hurting you and though I don't know what to do, I will support you and help you with anything you need from me. It's going to be a long road. And I will be there. Every step of the way.

Him: I've always had a problem expressing my affection. Saying and doing those little things. It's just hard for me. Even before this. Now I have these horrible thoughts that make it nearly impossible for me. The second I have a nice thought to come and hug or kiss you or say something nice, those bad thoughts pop into my head and I just can't do it. And I know that's not what u want or need. I can see it. I see how sad you are. I know this is very hard on you. You deserve better than what I can give you. And in the back of my mind I honestly feel like this is just gonna be "replayed". You feel the way you said you felt then. I'm not going you what you need. You have "needs" that need to be met. 2 years ago a man you weren't even attracted to was able to get you to ruin a marriage. Do things you claim "aren't you". And I have no faith that at some point you will succumb again. Somehow someway you will be in a situation and you'll just do what you did then, rationalize that I don't love you, I'm not giving you what you need, you deserve better... All the things you and he told yourself then to justify. And you know what, it wouodnt even be as bad this time because of the way I've been. It will be so much easier for you to cross that line. In many ways I've basically said I can't get over this. You will easily find that justification to be unfaithful again. I know you say otherwise, but you can only take so much. And you rightfully deserve more than I've been able to give you. More than I might ever be able to give you. And the next time there will most likely be a physical component to make it that much easier for you.

Me:
First of all, your already having me fail before we even start. And I know where that comes from. And also, your already assuming that you won't give me what I need. Basically your telling me you won't give me what I need. I know that it's hard for you to do small things like give me a hug. Before your reasons were kids. Now your reason is this. I just feel like you'll always have some reason. Even if it's bullshit you'll make one up. And as far as being a repeat offender, that is unfair. To assume that I ever want to go through this again. To cause you this kind of pain again. I know you don't believe me, but I don't think I could survive this again. Literally. And on top of that I have learned so much. And know that when I have a problem or an issue I need to come to you. And keep coming to you until you listen. It's unfair to automatically put me in that category. You, yourself decided you didn't want to be a repeater, why can't I make that decision and it be real too?

Him:
You did come to me. And I was distant. Cold. Looked right through you. Sound familiar? If I don't change , at some point you will break. You'll meet someone, and you'll need that validation, those comments and compliments that made you feel in a way that made you risk so much and lie and decieve me and sneak ways to be with and talk to him.

Me:
I am NOT going to make the same mistakes I made before. And as I recall you saying, you aren't going to make the mistakes you made either. I am not going to live my life with deception and sneakiness and lies. I am making every effort to be a better person. For you, for me, for us. I am very very committed to making our lives better.

Him:
You did things that are making it hard for me to be that person. There is such a huge obstacle for me to give my full heart to you. Why can't you understand that? You hurt me. And time doesn't seem to be making it better. Nothing has.

Me:
Honey, I DO understand that! And yes, there is a huge obstacle for you to give your full heart to me. But you will. When you can. And time alone won't make it better. We have already established this.

BE AS HONEST AS YOU WANT. MY INTENTION IS TO FIND OUT WHAT WE (I) AM DOING WRONG


13 years together
Married 7 years
Divorced Oct 29 2012 Still living together
Me: FWS 30something
BH: 40something
D-day Sept 5, 2012

Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Ohio
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand you are looking for help. I must ask if your BH knows that you are posting these conversations on here. If he doesn't, then I need you to consider how he might feel if he were to find out you were sharing his feelings so openly. Is he a member of SI? If not, I would encourage sharing the site with him so that he may get the support he needs as well.


Me: WS 41
Him: BH 42 (holdingtogether)
M: 17 years, together 21
2 Daughters: 12 and 9
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 493 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Mrs Panda
♀ Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thoughts are

1. Stop texting! Have real human interaction and face to face talks, for goodness sake. Texts are emotionless and a terrible way to misinterpret. Also, a great way to overthink and plan your answers.

2. You still are not in the "I have to fix MY shit" mode. You SHOULD be afraid of repeating this mistake. Because many of us have. Because we didn't change anything except a superficial promise. We white-knuckled it. We didn't figure out how to fill the holes in ourselves, by ourselves.

You want him to fix him, yet you said nothing really about you other than promises, promises. And then you always redirect back to him " not giving his whole heart, not giving you what you need"

He can't. At least not now. Let that sink in. He said it.

And I have no faith that at some point you will succumb again. Somehow someway you will be in a situation and you'll just do what you did then, rationalize that I don't love you, I'm not giving you what you need, you deserve better... All the things you and he told yourself then to justify. And you know what, it wouodnt even be as bad this time because of the way I've been. It will be so much easier for you to cross that line. In many ways I've basically said I can't get over this. You will easily find that justification to be unfaithful again. I know you say otherwise, but you can only take so much. And you rightfully deserve more than I've been able to give you. More than I might ever be able to give you.

Read this again and again. This is 100% true and there is nothing you can say or promise to make him feel differently. Only true change and actions (not texts!!!) will help. He may one day trust you again. But it won't ever be 100%. 99% at best. You have to become strong enough to be able to live with that, or less. You have to buck up and not be so needy,

So, what are you doing to fix You?

PS I hope I am not being too tough, you are a newbie and I think you have great potential or I wouldn't be typing away instead of reading my new book.


Me-41 FWW Him-44BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"The only thing permanent is change." Dr Charles Mayo,1930

Posts: 1946 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mrs Panda nailed it.
I would add.
Honey, I DO understand that! And yes, there is a huge obstacle for you to give your full heart to me. But you will.

Keep saying that he will "give your full heart to me" and I guarantee he won't.
You never, never tell him what he is going to do.
You're making demands of him.
You are in no position to do that.
You really need to find your humble.

I know that right now my words don't have value to you. But I'm hoping my actions and showing you do

Yet the words keep coming.

There is a lot to be said for quiet achievment.

I know your trying. Keep at it.


Me:WS,53
Her:BS,53 (WantToWakeUp)
Married 32yrs
Dday Dec 2009

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 273 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Senraba02
♀ New Member
Member # 41630
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Mrs Panda

I can't stop texting him because it is the ONLY way he will talk to me right now. And if I don't reply, he gets so furious and then literally won't interact with me at all. Trust me, I don't want to text.

I know he is being honest about his feelings.
And I am being honest about mine. Many people may reoffend, but I have been to IC and I have found the reasons why and what I need to do to fix me. What I don't know is how to help him! He refuses any kind of IC or MC because he says anything he learns in there he already read or listened to, or searched. He says he doesn't want to learn methods about tricking his brain.
Though he is a member of his own help site- and suggested I do the same.
I am by no means a better person yet. But I am getting there. Not only am I seeking IC and in a group I am taking everything in and consciously applying it to my life. All aspects.


13 years together
Married 7 years
Divorced Oct 29 2012 Still living together
Me: FWS 30something
BH: 40something
D-day Sept 5, 2012

Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Ohio
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WOEZ & MrsP are spot on. He needs to see you changing for you no matter the outcome. He asked, I believe more than once, how could you do this? Why didn't you stop? You redirect each time. Honey, look at the things he's asking you. I swear if you're 100% honest with yourself and him, you'll figure out why and I bet you anything it will change the tides. Those are incredibly important questions which deserve answering.

As far as the texting, I'd stop and start writing. Some folks find it easier to get it all out on paper. They can collect their thoughts, etc. Once you write it all out, along with a timeline, give it to him. Some members here were able to spill the beans by indirect ways but not dishonest or impersonal ways. I know of at least one person here who spilled it all out in front of her H with her eyes closed. I hope this is making since. You seem intelligent and eager to learn and repair. Just start working on You now. Not him, the M, YOU.

ETA: I think we cross-posted so I apologize if I seem like I'm not listening

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 8:15 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
Mrs Panda
♀ Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't stop texting him because it is the ONLY way he will talk to me right now. And if I don't reply, he gets so furious and then literally won't interact with me at all. Trust me, I don't want to text.

Oh give me a break. 13 year olds text love messages and hearts. You are over 30. This is your marriage. Break these rules that you imply and simply call or arrange a time to talk.

Your marriage is drowning in excessive texting and lack of communication.

There is this dynamic to the conversation. He reveals something, then you come back with "yes I understand, but..."
And always you come back to what you need, and trying to direct his healing. How he isn't trying enough, isn't good enough (that's what he hears).

Maybe he will never recover. But allow him to and don't badger him about it.

Try this. 30 days do selfless things for him, without expectation of getting something back. If you have not read The Five Love language yet! it helped me a lot. And a quick read.


Me-41 FWW Him-44BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"The only thing permanent is change." Dr Charles Mayo,1930

Posts: 1946 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, January 4th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The 30 day suggested by MrsP is excellent. Have you heard of a movie called "Fireproof"? I don't know if you're a religious person or not, but even if you're not please watch this movie. The religious stuff is there but not at a brow-beating pace. It's such a good movie and very helpful.

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 8:34 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
Topic Posts: 8

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