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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Stick a fork in me
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Part of my issue is with the timeline, it was all about me. What I had done, thought, and felt. The letters will be pointed at another person. My parents. It's difficult just thinking about writing a letter because the things I want to say, the things I feel are considered disrespectful. There is fear. Fear of the feelings and thoughts I have.

Would the focus of your letters be your parents, or would it be your thoughts and feelings in response to their behavior?

Fear. Fear is a really good argument FOR doing this exercise. Lean in, right?

My IC had me do an exercise that was super helpful in processing painful events from my past.

He had me write them down in three columns.

Like this(I can't do columns but you can imagine them):

1. EVENT: Dad screaming in my face about BF. Physically intimidating me by backing me up against the wall. Calling BF trash. Telling me I was raised better.

2. FEELINGS then: fear, hurt, anger

3. FEELINGS now: anger, sadness

This really helped me to process. And to find empathy for myself and for others. And to let go or move toward letting go.

Prayers for you and your sis..


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1386 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
lostmylight55
♂ Member
Member # 33517
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My childhood was a dream compared to other people's experiences. I struggle with minimizing my experiences and pushing them down.

I could say the same about my childhood. I wanted for nothing, I was spoiled, our family went on many vacations together but that doesn't change the fact that I was raised by narcissistic parents and a mother with – to this day – absolutely zero empathy.

Those are the things I need to come to grips with. Those are the things that shaped me more, not the amount of stuff they gave or the places we went. Their personalities and the way they interacted with me and each other is what shaped me in an unhealthy way.

I was not supposed to talk back to my parents, I was supposed to be respectful towards them but I also need to accept that the way my parents raised us kids messed us all up. My brother is a socially awkward outcast with major enmeshment issues with my mother, my sister is a WS that wanted to leave her husband AND children for her AP – And DID! Which didn't work out because her AP went back to his family. She blames him, his wife, his kids, her XBS for messing up her plans. She's as unremorseful as they come. And then there was me. This is all very unhealthy shit that comes from a family that was, on the outside, a perfect one.

It isn't blame shifting to assign responsibilities where they legitimately need to be. I don't blame my parents, they did the best they could based on who they are and what they grew up with. But shit runs down hill and we were a byproduct of them and their FOO. I take full responsibility for what I have done but can better see why I was the person I was and where it originated from and I don't want to ever be like that or the way my family behaves ever again.

You have to conquer the fear of feeling like a "bad daughter", not much different than you conquering your feeling of being a "bad wife" after D'Day.

I get the feeling you are linking the blame shifting talked about on this site pertaining to A's to how you feel about your parents. They are different.

You should focus on how it makes you feel rather than what they are doing. Now it's time to have an intimate conversation with your parents and say, indirectly to them, what you can't say to their face – push through the fear.

Good Luck, I'm sorry you have to go through this.

[This message edited by lostmylight55 at 11:26 AM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


My Boundaries are firm: Trespassers will be shot on sight.

Posts: 88 | Registered: Oct 2011
plainsong
♀ Member
Member # 37826
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry for your sister's loss and for the loss of loving parents that both of you are experiencing now.

I'd like to put in a plug for doing the writing exercise. The thoughts swirling in your head now are in a space too small to handle them. Writing them out will let you follow trains of thought wherever they take you, - maybe from anger to hurt, to grief, back to anger; at your parents, at yourself, at others, at life - without new themes short-circuiting old ones before you have fully expressed them. I hear how much you don't want to attack your parents. That is why you are doing this in a letter you won't send, and not in person. I also hear that you are afraid that your thoughts and feelings are "bad".

That's how I felt in my first post on SI, which I entitled "Hateful Feelings". The advice I got in response to that post was that I needed to feel what I felt in order to work through it and find out what was underneath. My IC said the same thing, and suggested the same kind of writing exercise - just writing what I felt and thought. She reassured me that if I let out on paper what was, after all, already in my head, my thoughts and feelings would eventually go in a direction that would be healing. That is what happened. I still use writing when I realize I am stuck in swirling, painful thoughts.

I felt, and still feel, great shame at having hostile feelings towards others. But when I give myself permission to express my anger and hurt and grief on paper, I reach a place where I can have compassion for my hurt child and become aware of the love and support I have from others in my life today, which lets me become a more loving person 'in real life'.

This is hard . It took me months to be willing to face the shame and put my hateful thoughts on paper. But it is worth it, and you are entitled to that relief.

All my best to you and your sister in this painful time.


Me,WW,69;
Him,BH,69 - about to be 70! Happy Birthday!
Dday,12/22/2010
I use capital letters for emphasis, not yelling!

Posts: 61 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Chicago area
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would the focus of your letters be your parents, or would it be your thoughts and feelings in response to their behavior?
It would be my thoughts and feelings which stem from their actions. (or inactions)

Fear is a really good argument FOR doing this exercise. Lean in, right?
Yeah I know. I should take a look at my own sig line again.

Your column idea has merit. When I think "writing", I automatically assume letter/story form. But I think the column with be helpful with dissecting my feelings then/now in a much better way.

Those are the things that shaped me more, not the amount of stuff they gave or the places we went. Their personalities and the way they interacted with me and each other is what shaped me in an unhealthy way.
My problem is keeping all that separate. The "stuff" versus the unhealthy personalities. I keep looking at is as a whole and thinking "Well ok. Maybe they weren't so bad..."

I get the feeling you are linking the blame shifting talked about on this site pertaining to A's to how you feel about your parents.
Yep. I've taken the "No excuses for our A" into FOO territory. No excuses for my issues. And to say, "I'm like this because of that." just feels wrong.

Cheese and crackers I need to quit talking because I feel I'm digging myself into an even bigger hole. Emotional maturity? HA. I'm in preschool.

I reach a place where I can have compassion for my hurt child
This right here? Paralyzing fear. Be nice to me, even "little" me?

*sigh*

I'll write. If nothing else, as an experiment. To see if it helps process this trash. Doesn't hurt to try. I'll start at the beginning. And see where it takes me.

Thank you everyone for letting me work this out. Yet again. I'm so tired of being stuck. Maybe I can finally get thru this now.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6048 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm hugging you, Aubrie, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! Heck, I need one too.

(((Aubrie and Sis)))

My childhood was a dream compared to other people's experiences. I struggle with minimizing my experiences and pushing them down. I wasn't sexually abused, I don't have scars from cigarette burns. An "abusive" moment example: I was about 15. Dad hated my boyfriend. I said something about loving my BF. Dad came off his bed, (we argued regularly in my parents bedroom) and was two inches from my face, my back pressed into the wall, him yelling about how I didn't know anything, that I was raised better than how I was acting, my boyfriend was trash, Dad knew best, act like an adult, etc. Really abuse? Or a Dad protecting his daughter from a predator?

This minimization is typical. I WAS abused, both sexually and verbally/emotionally. I minimized it. My mom saw firsthand the verbal/emotional because the culprit was my ex stepfather. I didn't tell her about the sexual stuff until I was around 21ish. So, maybe 14-15 years later I guess? Part of it was self-blame, fear and guilt. Part of it was minimization. I see now that I minimized as a defense mechanism to protect myself from fully feeling the hurt and the other raw emotions that threatened to overwhelm me.

Are you minimizing in order to protect yourself from further hurt?

When it comes to my actions, I'll own it. When it comes to dealing with their actions and my feelings because of them? Scares the ever livin' out of me. I guess I am really fearful of blameshifting. Blaming them for crap and me just being a whiner baby. I want to own where I'm the problem. Am I making any sense?

Idk if it's true blameshifting, but it might fall more along the lines of minimization as well.

Aubrie. You feel how you feel. No sugarcoating it. No beating around the bush. You're sad. And angry. And frustrated. And TIRED of the drama. And probably a whole host of other things. And guess what honey? It's OKAY. You're allowed to feel anger/whatever at your parents without beating yourself up and calling yourself a "whiner baby." You're trivializing your real emotions by equating them to those of a child.

I like the idea of writing it out. It focuses your thoughts. It empowers you because you're in control and you have a voice that rants uninterrupted while you vomit your reactions/feelings about all the trauma from time immemorial. It can and hopefully will be cathartic- a purge of all that negativity. Also, I hope it can bring a sense of acceptance regarding your perceptions of your FOO's dysfunction.

I also like knightsbff's IC's (whew, a lot of possession there! ) exercise. Good stuff.

And stop comparing your FOO to other FOOs that were in your estimation more dysfunctional. That leads to minimization. It reminds me of a woman in an abusive relationship saying, "well, at least he's only ever slapped me... he could very well have punched me," or some permutation of "at least." Yes, perspective is good. But minimizing can prevent you from healing because you're not dealing with it. You're making it smaller and easier to rugsweep.

Idk if that makes sense. But on the off-chance that it does make sense, I hope it helps.


Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2010
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you minimizing in order to protect yourself from further hurt?
Yes. Dang it. I don't want to hurt anymore.

QS just called to check on me a little while ago. He asked if I was ok. No, I'm not. People keep pushing buttons that I don't want them to push. I know they need pushed. But I don't want it. Cause it hurts.

Minimization = less hurt.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6048 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
MovingUpward
♂ Guide
Member # 14866
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Minimization = less hurt.

Minimization = smaller intensity hurt drawn out over a longer time


AKA Moo

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.


Posts: 51500 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But sweetheart. You're hurting anyway. Now. In this moment.

It doesn't really protect you. Minimizing is a fake fix.

ETA: Jinx Moo.

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 2:25 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1210 | Registered: Feb 2010
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iyanla Vanzant said something once in of her shows that has stuck with me since - "if we're not uncomfortable, we're not growing".

It's true. I saw a quote on FB once that said "a comfort zone is a beautiful place, but nothing ever grows there".

This is a process, Aubrie, a painful one. The only way to get through it is to go through it.

“You can accept or reject the way you are treated by other people, but until you heal the wounds of your past, you will continue to bleed. You can bandage the bleeding with food, with alcohol, with drugs, with work, with cigarettes, with sex, but eventually, it will all ooze through and stain your life. You must find the strength to open the wounds, stick your hands inside, pull out the core of the pain that is holding you in your past, the memories, and make peace with them”.

[This message edited by MissesJai at 2:27 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
knightsbff
♀ Member
Member # 36853
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie I might be projecting or whatever here so put me in my place or ignore as needed.

I feel like you are clinging still with some small part of you to the happy, healthy family that you once *thought* you had. Like if you don't see the hurts in black and white it's not all the way real. Or maybe what I mean is by not laying the blame on your parents for *their* hurtful actions (your fear of you blame shifting) you can keep owning some of it thereby maintaining some illusion that you were in control. The thought of being or having been powerless is really scary, even when you're not any more.

Let me give an example because I'm not good at explaining things sometimes.

When I was trying to tell my IC about my CSA. I made statements like "I know it's not my fault, but I didn't scream or fight. I didn't tell immediately. Etc..."

IC pointed out that I was angry with myself and blaming myself for what happened to me. She asked me if we had a 9 year old girl standing in front of us telling the same story of what happened to her would I ask her if she screamed, or fought, or why she waited so long to get the courage to tell?

If I held on to the belief that I could have/should have done something different then I wasn't completely powerless.

I wonder if you aren't giving yourself some of the blame for your parents actions? The minimization?

Our FOO issues contributed to who we are. Yes us, the waywards who chose to cheat. I don't think sorting through and facing down FOO stuff is blame shifting. It's part of getting healthy.


FWW 40's
D-day August 27, 2012
3 kids and 2 dogs

Posts: 1386 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Deep South, USA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I could say the same about my childhood. I wanted for nothing, I was spoiled, our family went on many vacations together but that doesn't change the fact that I was raised by narcissistic parents and a mother with – to this day – absolutely zero empathy.

Been trying to find a way to say THIS ^^^^^ exactly. It still hurts like hell. I've had to keep her at emotional arms-length my whole adult life. If we ever step into reality, it all starts falling apart.

I can relate on an IL level more than a FOO level to what you're going though, Aubrie, but I've had to protect myself from my own parents as well. Don't minimize your struggle - you are entitled to your feelings.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16397 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you guys are right. It's just so dang daunting.

Like if you don't see the hurts in black and white it's not all the way real.
Yeah, pretty much.

If I held on to the belief that I could have/should have done something different then I wasn't completely powerless.

I wonder if you aren't giving yourself some of the blame for your parents actions?
This burns really bad.

I see the argument in my head and it just doesn't make any sense.

If I had just listened to them, we wouldn't have fought, Dad wouldn't have resented me for going against him.

But I was trying to grow up. And it's logical that children and teens will flex their muscles and attempt to make decisions on their own.

And it you had just listened, you would have seen with time that everything they said about BF was true. He wouldn't have hurt me too.

How else are you supposed to learn if you don't try new things? Even if you're stupid and 15.

And if it was anyone else, I would be telling them to cut themselves some slack. That they were a victim of not only their parents extreme control, but at the mercy of a BF that learned his abuse from his own screwed up FOO. That it's not the fault of the person I'm talking to. That they were victimized and helpless. They were sabotaged in their development as a human being.

I can preach it all day long. But I cannot fully embrace it for myself cause if I embrace it, those spikes will pierce my soul. And the powerlessness takes over.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6048 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, honestly, your parents probably did the best they could with the knowledge/tools they had at the time. Why do you think so many people make better grandparents than parents?

It doesn't matter who is at fault here. Maybe it is NO ONE's fault. Sometimes, children don't get what they need, and it isn't because the parents don't try to give it to them. My parents were decent parents. But my dad was emotionally absent. He was also very demanding. I felt that no matter what I did, it wasn't good enough. I considered suicide once when I was a teen.

Now, looking back, I realize that my father DID love me very much and still does. He just isn't able to show it in a way I relate to. He can't be nice to me, he can't do the huggy feely stuff, he isn't an "I love you" kind of person. He just can't do that stuff, it isn't a part of him (and wasn't a part of me either until I realized my emotional unavailability came from my father and I worked to heal that). I have to accept that even though he is gruff, was maybe a bit overzealous with the paddling, and probably a bit emotionally abusive, and sometimes says things that are a bit harsh, he does love me the best way he knows how. I also realize he is not someone I can hang around a lot, because he is hard to get along with.

I've made my peace with it. It is what it is.

The argument you are having in your head....really, it isn't important. You were a CHILD!!!! You couldn't have been mature at the age of 15. You thought you were in love with that boy, and teenagers feel love just as strongly as adults. You did the best you could at the time with what you knew. Maybe you could have listened better but seriously, what teenager listens to their parents? (No normal one that I know of)

No one gets everything they need as a child. That doesn't make anyone else's pain more or less valid. It does make for some healing ourselves when we finally grow up and can get the proper tools to use to heal ourselves.

I'll tell you one thing that has helped me. It may not be your thing but I'm going to put it out here anyway.

I have learned to forgive the child I was for anything I did that may have been detrimental and have compassion for that child. I was a child and I was lovable. All children are lovable. Some just need a bit more loving than others.

I tried a technique that worked so well for healing an old wound I didn't even know I had. When I was 4, I tore open my forehead. I remember lots of white, me screaming, and scary looking people with masks on (doctors & nurses). My mother remembers me screaming for my mommy but they would not let her in the door. I sat down one day, and I closed my eyes, and I remembered that scared little girl. She didn't know what was going on, and she desperately needed her mother. I went in my head, and I gave that child the love and safety and hugs she needed back then. I told her everything would be okay. When I opened my eyes again, I cried and cried for the pain that child went thru and for the compassion I felt for that child that used to be me. Since that time, I have not had any more thoughts about the scary white room and masked people. I also found I have more compassion for myself, even now.

Forgive yourself for the child you were. Look at other children you may know. Would you expect them to make mature, adult decisions? Of course not! Forgive yourself. Have compassion for the child that is still in there. Give that child the love she needed back then. Change the scenario in your head and show the teenage girl the love and understanding she should have had. And then forgive your dad. He probably did the best he could with what he knew. Maybe the damage done to him as a child was so extensive he couldn't overcome it. So you can forgive him for the hurts, but that doesn't mean you have to forget, and that doesn't mean you have to hang with him a lot, if he is still toxic. It just means that you can forgive because we are all human and we all make mistakes, for whatever reasons.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 4:00 PM, January 8th (Wednesday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15100 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
DeadMumWalking
♀ Member
Member # 25341
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And if it was anyone else, I would be telling them to cut themselves some slack.

I have this exact same issue, I judge myself much more harshly that I judge others.

This is where taking the perspective of a neutral, non-judgmental, 3rd party outside observer, can help.

I'm glad you are deciding to do this. Just make sure you take only tiny bites of the sandwich at a time so you don't get overwhelmed right at the start.


Me (BS), Him (WH): early 50's
3 DS: teens!!! :)
M: 24 (19 1/2 at Dday), Together 29
Dday: Dec 2008
re-separated (in-house), for good (??) <-- should really remove these, shouldn't I...

Posts: 2538 | Registered: Aug 2009 | From: EU
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, my wife and I experienced the pain of a missed-miscarriage back in '05. I feel for your sister and her husband and will pray for them. This is a tough time for them and all who love them, for sure.

I'm sorry you're hurting right now, but it doesn't sound to me like you are looking at the situation with your parents wrong. Hang in there.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1326 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((Aubrie)))))) (((((((Aubrie's Sis))))))


If it helps, start your list as an observer. State the event, see the little girl and write out her feelings. When you get a few incidents down...you can pick which one you want to work thru.

It micro manages things a bit, but it gives you smaller bites to swallow at a time.

It isn't easy, its freaking hard work. But the peace does come...bit by bit.

I'm adding your sister to my prayer list.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4847 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, January 8th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I cannot fully embrace it for myself cause if I embrace it, those spikes will pierce my soul. And the powerlessness takes over.

You can't heal.......

This could be your place to shine. Unfurl your wings and be you. Your parents should have given you the courage, but they tried to keep you in their sphere of influence.

Time for you to be you. End their influence over you. Heck yes, I realize that they are your parents, and always will be. Doesn't mean they got it right. Hell, they can't even see that they *might* be wrong. You can and do. Be the one to break the chain. Be better to yourself and *your* family.

Prayers for you and QS and littles. More for sis and her angel. I'm sorry for your loss.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2549 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Topic Posts: 37
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