Feel incredibly presumptuous logging in and assuming that people need an update from me, but also feel bad that everyone was so nice and I disappeared very suddenly.
Anyway, to confirm: am okay, we're still working at it and have had some real pluses (even managed to go on a spontaneous weekend abroad together and had a really good time). I will update more shortly when I have more time (I'm working at the moment!), but wanted to say thanks again and I hope you are all bearing up to.
[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 5:44 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)]
Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.
If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Lightfoot
Good luck with your progress.
Hope things continue to go well for you.
Right, I said I'd be back with an update so here it is for anyone who is interested! Thanks for your concern, it means, a lot. Am actually working at home today so have a quick 15 minute window before I start to blurt it all out quickly, so here goes!
Haven't been on here for a while and it feels like loads has happened but at the same time nothing really has changed massively. I said at the outset of this that the sad situation of this it that we both love each other and she is sorry - and that's still the basic crux of it.
We basically went through a few weeks of it being good. I even had a work trip to a big European city that required me to fly home on a Friday afternoon, so I got the company to change my flight to the Sunday and my wife got a flight out and we had a weekend away together and had a really good time - eating, talking, laughing, being silly (and, yes, drinking together too, though that was fine).
It's been generally the same for weeks, though through all the sorries, etc, my wife could occasionally be defensive, bolshy and a bit selfish. This all came to a head about a week ago when I thought that I was trying harder than she was and said that I needed more. Basically, the angry stage returned for a while before a big bit of self-pity on my part. I think (THINK!) that at this point she finally 'got' it and she hit the low that she needed to get to (I think she'd been in denial to an extent about what she'd done and I've read the cheater can take a little more time to get to the bottom, which is kind of understandable). She went back to massively sorry, bombarding me with texts about how sorry she is, etc, and we agreed that this had to be a turning point, as neither us could face going backwards again.
She bought the 'Women's Infidelity' helpbook which she had identified as being really accurate as to some of how she felt and read it all (some of it together) and has been really good since - no more excuses, bolshiness, etc. I said to her that I needed to promise not to throw out blame towards her and she needed to stop making excuses and we both agreed that that was a good way forward. We still talk loads (we do little else!) but it's all honest, positive and not argumentative, etc.
We also went through the hysterical bonding thing a few weeks back which stopped in less than a week, which has also been a problem (as she was the one who stopped it). She has taken massive steps to get that back on track too, which has been amazing. We haven't had sex yet (though she's suggested it more than once), though we have repeatedly been able to make me climax with her doing all of the work (sorry for typing that sentence, not sure how else to put it!). By the way, it turns our it was a mixture of physical and psychological. Some 'positions' work better than others and then once I had let go mentally once we'd broken the barrier. Also, she had the problem of not allowing herself to climax, but she has since gotten over that in quite spectacular fashion. This obviously all bodes well for us 'sharing' sex in future and for our general bonding now (she certainly seems a lot happier and less stressed since learning to climax again). Oh, and she's not pregnant and all of her STD tests have been negative so far.
We read in her book that she needs to forgive herself too before we can move on and I obviously understand that (a lot of the probs of the last few weeks have obviously been down to guilt I think). I am now in something of a cycle, though, as I understand that when she's upset occasionally we need to work through that together to move on. But then occasionally when she's happy I feel like she's 'won' and it's not fair. I know that the former mindset is the correct one to have, however, and that it has only been a month and all things considered we are getting on incredibly well.
Cat also got out of the bag with respect to telling friends and that has helped. Everyone said straight away 'It's 17 years and she's sorry, you need to try and make it work'. A couple even said, 'I think you're doing the right thing but I don't know if I could, I'd run'. This sounds like a compliment but part of me thinks, 'Are they saying I'm a sucker?' I also know that I need to ultimately do what's right for us and not worry about that, and they're our friends and want to support us.
Anyway, is 9am and have to start work, I have LOADS to do! However, typing that all out has made me feel calm and I thank you all again for your time and support (those who I haven't responded to directly, there's a lot of info in this thread, but rest assured that it has all been digested and considered many, many times and I appreciate it!). I sincerely hope that you are all getting all of the good advice and support (on here and also elsewhere) that I am. Thank you!
Remember, this is all a process. Just because infidelity is ugly, it can't be ignored. So even though the two of you don't like dealing with it, it is very healing to do so....if it is done in a constructive, joint effort.
As for this:
Am actually working at home today so have a quick 15 minute window before I start to blurt it all out quickly, so here goes!
Hell, it would have taken me an HOUR to type that!
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D
I just mailed part of this in reply to someone else experiencing the same thing as me and thought I would paste it in here as could do with some advice on detecting guilt and getting over anger if anyone has any.
My wife and I are generally getting on well and she seems remorseful, and in my 'lucid' state I know this is positive. However, after a while I start to think that she has gotten everything she wants and has now 'won' and now I'm carrying the can for it all. Basically I think she's gotten off lightly, though I know making her suffer (for want of a better word) will be counterproductive for our recovery. This whole process is like a vicious circle.
I also doubt sometimes how sorry she really is. I think part of the natural state of the cheater is to detach and try and forget what they've done (which is kind of understandable I suppose, though I think it will catch up with them sooner or later). She said to me yesterday that sometimes she can forget about it (it's like it never happened because the experience meant so little to her), but then she looks at me she remembers what she has done. She asked me what I wanted her to do to make it better, and I said that if I told her and then she did it, it wouldn't mean anything, so she had to work it out.
She does text me messages, etc, and hug me a lot, but I feel sometimes like she doesn't really 'get' it. Also, she went and told her parents without me asking her to (in fact, I specifically said that it would upset them so don't bother), so she obviously knows she's done wrong. I also know that she can't face any of our friends. When one came to stay recently he guessed something was up when he was talking to her about general things as she looked like she was about to cry all the time. She's also stopped being as defensive and bolshy as she was and making excuses for her behaviour. Basically, I know that she is definitely ashamed of herself but is that the same thing? Are the above examples 'good' signs that she is sorry?
I have said to a couple of friends that I need to swallow this whole thing and move on, but it's easier said than done. Also, I am generally being 'nice' as this seems the most productive way to be; the only times I've really shouted her down is when she's tried to excuse her behaviour, etc. However, I feel like if I'm too nice, she's gotten away with it and is happy about that. Like I say, it's like a vicious circle. And I also feel like I can't be bothered to play tedious 'mind games' of this sort with someone I have been with for 17 years!
[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 1:37 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]
If your WW could bring herself to be brutally honest, wouldn't she regard the ONS has a good decision, since it has resulted in increased happiness? Sure, you got a lot of pain dumped on you, but from her perspective wasn't the end result worth it? After all most of us would rather have a little guilt than endure the agony of being the adultery victim, so she hasn't suffered like you have.
I doubt your wife would confess that she views her cheating favorably, but I wonder.....
As you stated:
I also doubt sometimes how sorry she really is
Woke up this morning really upbeat and when i broached it she said can we discuss it tomorrow as we both have work and then carried on being cheery. I suppose the situation could be worse than her being too upbeat, and I think this sums her up: remorse underneath but not always showing it on the surface.
She has acknowledged that there have been positives (while saying that it was wrong), though the last time I said to her that she's gotten what she wanted she said something along the lines of 'no I haven't because I hate myself'. Also, we are no longer trying for a child. However, she has stopped bringing up the latter which annoyed me when she brought it up before.
Typing this has helped me realise that my situation could be worse, I think I just want more regular blatant expressions of I'm sorry as opposed to general nice behaviour. I suppose it just takes time!
she got in last night after going for a few drinks
Do you have any issue with her drinking, considering that she fell of a bar stool at 5:00 am the night if her ONS?
She will live the rest of her life as a wife who cheated, betrayed her husband when tempted, never again a faithful wife. The closer you grow as spiritual mates the more it hurts that she cannot be exclusively your woman anymore; she betrayed the marriage when put to the test. An adulteress for eternity no less.
I think it is very appropriate that having a biological child together has been taken off of the table..
So many people say that it takes 2-5 years to heal from major betrayal like infidelity...R or D...But in many ways I think the aftermath of infidelity becomes a life sentence..
The sooner your WW understands this the more grateful she will be for what she has in front of her and for what she can salvage of the M or any type of relationship with you..She may or may not get her head out of her B*** and realize this..
It will be up to you as to how long you can tolerate waiting for your WW to address her issues.. I am not sure she is really digging in to give you what you need to trust her again..I suspect she has some regret on the surface but not deep or true remorse yet..
You may ultimately decide that her behavior in the coming days/months will be a deal breaker for you..
Focus on yourself and what you need to regain some kind of stable ground in your life...
[This message edited by doggiediva at 8:42 AM, February 21st (Friday)]
She has acknowledged that there have been positives (while saying that it was wrong), though the last time I said to her that she's gotten what she wanted she said something along the lines of 'no I haven't because I hate myself'. Also, we are no longer trying for a child
Just started your story and skimmed through the whole thread. It's been a roller coaster ride for you and I can certainly relate.
However, I truly believe some BS are in their own downward spiral after A. In your case, she admitted to it immediately. In fact, she brought it to your attention.
I get the pain. I really do (my WW's A went on for a year, but she ended it before I found out). But I thing some empathy toward your wife appears warranted, until she gives you reasons otherwise.
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your mind
Drink-wise, this has been discussed a lot, including giving up entirely, though at the moment the deal is that she will monitor herself and behave properly, both around me and otherwise. Last night they were out for about five hours and drank two bottles of wine between them, which is hardly going crazy (and she wasn't much more than a bit drunk when she got in). We also went to a comedy club with friends last week and she drove at her own insistence (even though the Tube would have taken no time).
I am happy to go with this for now. I don't have any urge to wave the big stick other than make the obvious demands! There obviously needs to be compromise but at the same time, I kind of feel like, if she's only not sleeping with other people because I have her on such a tight lead, then I'd rather get on with it and get divorced now. This is how I feel about us anyway (and she does seem to have been honest with me so far) and I don't want to offend anyone as I obviously appreciate that other people's circumstances demand a lot more surveillance!
Anyway, we have our first relaxed weekend at home together since it happened, and have no plans other than cinema tonight and comedy and dinner and a few drinks together tomorrow. I am hopeful that a bit more of a chilled out weekend than we've had for quite a while will do us good.
Thanks again everyone, much appreciated!
[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 5:07 PM, February 21st (Friday)]
I have said to a couple of friends that I need to swallow this whole thing and move on, but it's easier said than done.
Sometimes the WS promotes rugsweeping. I think that your idea of moving on quickly will come back to bite you in the a$$. Sorry.
I wanted to do that with Mr. Happy. I really do love him and was utterly crushed by his shitty choices. But I love him and only know how to treat him with kindness and love. So in the interest of keeping peace in the house I stopped talking about his A and tried to be 'my old self'.
Neither he nor I realized that he killed 'my old self' when he fell in the gutter with that fornicatress.
This did not help and made things between us worse.
He was thrilled that I stopped crying and yelling. And I would hug and kiss him back and such.
But you know...he got the wrong impression about what was really happening in my heart and mind. I felt like I had been hit with a MAC truck! And when he started acting cavalier and trying to be 'normal'...I finally let him have it! I realized I was sending him the wrong signals. So I had to change my tack. I reserved the right to speak on how I was feeling or probe for more info with out him getting defensive.
I was like a parrot, I kept asking the same questions...over and over. I realized that my behavior was because my mind was re-booting with all the new 'real' info on my life and my past with him. When things did not jive, I would question him. He had to learn to deal with that. Thank goodness he got balls of steel! LOL
He took all of my slings and arrows with grace and humility. And even now continues to hold me close and promise 'never again'.
I have since slowed down to maybe a query every couple of months.
I have come to acceptance. It's not pretty but it really is my life. And now I feel that I have the real info so that I can lead an authentic life with him and myself.
So never give up your right to ask as many questions as you like. At any time. Adultery and betrayal carry consequences. She will just have to deal. And from your description of the current times, I think if you explain to her that you have to re-boot your brain to accept that she could do this to you, I think she will understand and really try to help you heal.
Hope my missive is not too long...
Take Care TWM.
Never forget what is worth remembering or remember what is best forgotten.
I don't feel that she is really rug sweeping, as she told her parents of her own volition and kept insisting that I speak to ours about it when I refused to because she was worried about me.
At the moment I try not to bring it up all the time, but say something if it is on my mind and only shout her down if she makes excuses, etc. Thankfully the latter has pretty much stopped in the last week or so (it's been six since it happened). I think she is 'sorry' but I think she will hit a new low of realisation some time in the future.
I don't feel that she is really rug sweeping...
Now you know that I was talking about YOU rugsweeping.
Although it is great that she is being transparent and honest. That is a huge step. Hopefully humility will come when she reaches bottom. And if she has any empathy she will start to see herself in the mirror.
I bet she is just glad that the 'cat is out of the bag'. It takes a lot out of a person to lie and cheat a person that really loves them. Mr. Happy even told me how happy he was now that I know the truth of his creepy affair. "Hey thanks for the info, I'm SO damned happy YOU feel so much better!"
I just would like to emphasize the importance of you allowing yourself to feel the pain and let her see and feel it first hand. Unfortunately you cannot avoid this part of the grief recovery.
I know, it sucks to let your brain and heart really feel the pain.
But your moments of despair will slow down and become less and less. Promise.
And when you process the real truth of your life with her, it will help you live in the present, authentically.
[This message edited by Getting to Happy at 6:08 PM, February 21st (Friday)]
Wife had a small relapse last night which annoyed me though was dealt with quickly. She is great most of the time but occasionally her I'm-almost-38-and-I-want-a-baby hormones kick in, which I understand but don't think is fair right now. Nipped it in the bud pretty quickly, said it wasn't fair to pile that on top right now, and she is back to apologetic, loving, etc.
Came about as I had a doctors appointment this morning to discuss my mental health and delayed ejaculation. Went to see him a moment ago and all went well. Explained situation in brief and he listened. He said he thought I was handling this well enough and didn't offer me Prozac, etc, or refer me for personal counselling. Said that sounded like we were working it out and that due to it being one-off and her being honest, with good communication like we have, should be able to move forward with time. He gave me the number of a relationship counsellor should we need it (we did try it once before though neither found it particularly helpful, as we basically paid him £60 to tell him a load of stuff we already knew and then didn't really get any feedback!). Am starting to think that counselling is prob more for people with bigger problems, or for those who are blocked and can't communicate without arguing, etc. On the personal counselling front, he didn't think I needed it but said to call back in three months if I still felt angry, etc.
On the delayed ejaculation, he has referred me for psychosexual counselling (my wife has already been referred for this) and apparently they should be able to see me in two or three months (though we have already made steps forward on this and, who knows, if we have sex, we might make more I suppose!).
My wife has also expressed an interest in the wayward side of the forum and has said she would like to log in there and me here, which I think is positive though am slightly nervous about (it's about trust I suppose re not checking up on each other). The idea is that I don't go in there and she doesn't come in here.
Other than that, nothing else to report! Any feedback welcomed as ever...