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User Topic: long: R article brings emotions out & Q a/b How to Help book
Holly-Isis
♀ Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, January 13th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hit a really rough spot today. I was already touchy from the realization that MrH just has no capacity for empathy, at least when it comes to me. I see it with the kids. I saw it in a couple of emails to xOw2; though he says it was faked. He's very calm and business like. I see lust and anger. A few times over the past years he's cried, mainly when I've gotten to the point I completely froze him out.

Then he forwards something from the leaders of a couple's group we're in. Background: it's supposed to be an infidelity recovery support group. MrH never did the work during the 10-week recovery class and hasn't even really done the lessons for the other studies we've done since then. The guys get together and hold each other accountable for things like porn use. The women get together and mainly just gossip. I've been having a hard time feeling like I belong. The women will let things slip that make it obvious they are talking and supporting each other outside of our group times. This is supposed to be an across the board thing. My texts usually remain unanswered, and I've seen them live on their phones. Even MrH has noticed that they freeze me out.

Basically, a whole new rejection for me. I want to quit the group. Been wanting to for awhile.

In the past six months we've had a talk with the group leaders and MrH is meeting with the pastor that they report to tomorrow. I've been concerned about the program beyond the group dynamics. During the meeting with the group leaders, the wife said they had just been to a weekend intensive and new information was out. Infidelity can cause Post Traumatic Stress Disorder!

WOW! WHO KNEW? Only ME. And everyone else on SI.

Even before reading it on SI I was looking up my mental symptoms and came up with PTSD. Reading the experience of others on SI verified it. I don't put much trust in a program who finds that news, KWIM? This is pretty well known across the board.

I've felt like they think I'm crazy. I've told them MrH wasn't doing what I needed to R. I've said I was silenced. That there was lack of emotion/empathy/remorse. Most of all, a lack of consistent action on his part. I feel that if he can maintain an A for six months he can damn well maintain recovery behavior for six weeks. They've told me that I'm not letting go, I need to move on. He is loving, he is sorry. Unforgiveness is hurting me.

Today the email they sent out (with a comment that it was "interesting").

Basically it was the abstract of a newly completed scientific study on recovering from infidelity. Specifically R. I don't want to quote it b/c from my search it's not been published so I don't want it pointing back to me. The crux of it is they found ten variables in R to rank above an 11th- seeking help.

Now, I've said all along that I can read and post at SI, I can go to IC or talk to friends. That will just heal me. I need MrH to actually participate in order for me to feel the M is healing. I believe in three stages: forgiveness (done w/in you, WS not a factor), reconciliation (WS admits wrong doing and changes behavior you may or may not D with this), and Restoration. In restoration the WS owns their choices, their FOO issues...whatever it takes to fully restore the marital relationship.

IMO, the ten factors listed in the study are what I have been seeking and made to feel like I was crazy by the "outside help" I sought.

Here they are:
-open and honest communication: discussion of feelings/emotions, how you plan to R, how running into the AP will be dealt with and so on.

- discussion of details of the A: how it began, what it consisted of (PA/EA), where it happened, how often...

-the A being ended

- WS's empathy
- BS's empathy

-genuine apology from the WS

-WS acceptance pf responsibility

-mutual understanding of factors leading to infidelity

-WS involvement in trust-building: checking in, wearing ring, access to accounts and records

-forgiveness

I've gotten the bare bones of these things. I broke down when I read them. I felt validated. I felt angry. So angry. Years wasted because of people being ignorant. People pushing their own agenda against what I knew in my head and heart I needed. My IC is the ONLY person who has supported me in this and she's been ill since school started. I've been more alone that ever.

It crushed me to read this more than it validated me. Or maybe the validation crushed me. All these years of pain when all it took was someone supporting me and saying to MrH, "Fuck yeah Holly needs this!"

For those who have read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: how many of those points listed are enumerated in the book?

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 3:27 PM, January 13th (Monday)]


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

❣Your soulmate is the person who helps grow your soul into a better being rather than tearing it down❣


Posts: 10869 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Limbo
lovedmesomehim
♀ Member
Member # 25743
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, January 13th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you loud and clear, Holly.

I rarely fit into many groups since my life changed. I cannot explain it, but when you speak of the subtle ostracism, I knew exactly what you meant. Exactly.

The group my FWH and I joined was faith based during our second year of R. He fit in. I did not.

Why? I can't be sure, but I think it was because I couldn't plaster a smile on my face, wear heels and make-up to do housework and tie on my clean apron while I rugswept and quoted the Beatitudes.

t think they really expected me to do the above, of course not. But they were willing to live, love, forgive and forget in one fellswooping hodgepodge. I just couldn't and I was not ever going to be sitting there with them exchanging recipes, swapping Stepford techniques, exchanging marital recovery tapes and the rest of that.

My anger was too great, because I had not been validated. I had been invisible for too long and I was having no more of it.

So, when you say they were woefully out of step with the infidelity world, I relate to that so well. Whenever I wanted to have a REAL discussion within the group time of sharing, I was never comfortable doing so. We were all there because we had been cheated on, but I felt as though the others thought my anger might prove to be contagious.

It was here at SI where I could be heard. That was validation for me and unlike anything I had ever experienced in my real life.

The steps you have outlined seem wholly appropriate and logical. That study sound so worth looking into. Please share anything that you can, when you are able.


Posts: 444 | Registered: Oct 2009
Holly-Isis
♀ Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My anger was too great, because I had not been validated. I had been invisible for too long and I was having no more of it.

That's what it feels like for me.

And, personally, that because he doesn't want to go to the effort, I'm unlovable. Because my mom rejected me, my stepmom, even my dad for a time. Now my husband. These people are supposed to love you unconditionally, so if you've been rejected, it's you- right? At least that's how my heart feels.

MrH is with our pastor right now. I'm not sure what he's planning on saying or what can be done about the group. I do know I'm not going to stay in an "R" group only to face MORE rejection by people who can only quote the Bible, not live it. After all, the Bible basically tells you to be authentic or you can't get the support of fellow believers.

Faith aside...there is no place in R or those providing support for R to decide what the BS needs and when the BS should be done. I can look at these past years and say, "I've made progress." That would be me, as a person. Not as part of a M. The M has, but creepingly slow. Because I have gotten many kind words and loving actions from MrH but I have gotten very little of what is listed in my first post.

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 9:09 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)]


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

❣Your soulmate is the person who helps grow your soul into a better being rather than tearing it down❣


Posts: 10869 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Limbo
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As lovedmesomehim pointed out, it sounds like the group you belong to should have a big old broom and a rug as their group symbol.

Holly, you are someone I have always looked up to here. I have learned so much from you. You are the furthest thing from a rug sweeper.

I bet you scare the bejeezus out of that group. I am sorry that once again you feel rejection (not alone there, sweetie, I usually don't fit in so called "groups", I am not a sheep) but please understand it is them, not you. They are shallow and scared little sheep that don't want to rock the boat. They wouldn't know authentic if it walked up to them and slapped them in the face. Authentic scares them, too.

I have read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair but can't remember how the points in there line up with the 10 you just listed, however it sounds like about the same to me.

I am so sorry that MrH still isn't moving more quickly on doing what you need (what every BS needs) him to do. I imagine he fits very well with that rug sweeping group and if he hasn't done the lessons from the studies it doesn't really sound like anyone is keeping him accountable.

It will be interesting to see what happens with his meeting with the pastor.

eta: (((Holly))) I am so sorry you are having a rough time.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:00 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8975 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
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