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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: New info, but not TT - strange phenomenon
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After 3 years of R, my W says she's getting new and much deeper insight into how she was during her A, how she started it, and how she maintained it.
So I have to ask some of the same old questions...and I get different answers now.

She's in a different place, so her perspective is different. Makes sense. She really couldn't give these answers 3 years ago, because she really didn't see what she sees now. It's like 3 years ago she was face to face with the A. Now she's on a hill observing the whole scene.

This is entirely unexpected, and I'm a little scared. Intellectually, I don't think I have anything to worry about. W's still committed to R, but... it's unexpected - it's unknown - and it's scary.

Any thoughts from long term R'ers?


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9732 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not a long term SIer, but it makes sense. She has more perspective, because she has more distance. Of course, there is always the danger that we are rewriting history for one reason or another, but my bet is that it is a good sign of healing and growth.

Peace.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1738 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
1Emptyglass
♀ New Member
Member # 37548
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am struggling with a similar "new" truth. We are in R for 2+ years now. I have always questioned the explanation of how the A began. I was originally told AP invited him to dinner, kissed him, and then boom....the affair began. He said he did not go to her house expecting anything, but was seeking companionship and if something else occurred, so be it. He had no feelings for her or plans for an A until it was happening. Now he reveals that in fact she had been flirting for a while and when she asked him to come for dinner in the morning, he spent the day thinking and anticipating what might happen that night. He was working out of town at the time.
Counselor says it's not really a lie, (I have asked this question about how the affair began many times over the last two years) but he is just now coming to terms with his state of mind during the A. WH is remorseful and I believe trying to be as truthful as possible. I just finally got the time line I asked for and we are tackling the difficult task of reliving the gory facts of the A. I too wonder with so much time passing since he was deep in the A if he remembers or rewrites?
No real advice...just wanted you to know that this far out sometimes the story changes. Every day is still a struggle for me. 2 to 5 years....think I'm on the 5 year plan :(


Me-BW 44
Him WH 44
OW single 54 co-worker
Married 21 years at d-day
kids: DD21 DS 17

Posts: 27 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: CA
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand where your wife is coming from. My stories kind of changed, but I wasn't lying, it was because my perspective changed. I can't think of specific examples because it was a few years ago, but I remember it being scary for LD.

I think it's a sign of growth, but I know that after all the deception of the A, it can be a gray area for a BS.

Keep talking to each other and expressing your fears and truths to each other.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 36515 | Registered: Sep 2007
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few years into R, we were just sitting around on the porch before Mr Unfound had to go to work, and he out of the blue said "it's such a good feeling, leaving for work, not having to worry about clearing my history, checking my bag and making sure I hadn't left anything out.... I spent a lot of time doing that. I'm sorry."

Early in R, I had asked him if he knew how much time he had taken away from us with the A. At the time he recalled actual time with OW, physically or on the computer/phone.

perspective. hindsight. looking not through A glasses, but healthy clear eyes.

I know it's scary sisoon. You've come so far yourself, and you two will get through this.


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14808 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So far we've talked about A sex. She used to say it wasn't very good. She used to say she did the sex in order to hold and be held by ow. Now she is in touch with really liking the sex.

It's rewriting history, but into a more sensible story, and it makes her involvement seem worse, not better. She's not talking about this with guilt ('I'm beating myself up for this, so don't you do it, too') - she's talking as if she really owns her actions ('I did this. It was morally wrong, and I hurt a number of people by doing it.').

Maybe that's why I'm not upset. As I say, this is totally unexpected, but maybe I should have expected it. After all, if she's really remorseful, her understanding of the A should deepen over time.

I hope I'm not kidding myself - I really think this is a positive development.

2 X 4s aren't all that welcome, which may mean that's what I really need....


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9732 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:34 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Sisoon ))) medium-timer here....no help....just a thanks for posting. It is a bit of a heads up for what may lie ahead in my path.

God be with you both.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think authenticity is a good thing. Can be scary, sure. Makes you feel vulnerable. But that wat lies true intimacy.

Good luck.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1698 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sisoon,
I think ultimately this is good. I think it is a step forward for her. It may be a hard pill and set back for you though. Please process your thoughts here. I'd love to help you work through this. My W did this at about 16 months out.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10)

Posts: 1860 | Registered: Nov 2010
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As much as it is a healthier POV, it rocks your foundation a bit.

Traveling down the R road, learning to live with your truths then BOOM, truth is changed. Re-route.

IMO, you already nailed it

She's in a different place, so her perspective is different. Makes sense. She really couldn't give these answers 3 years ago, because she really didn't see what she sees now. It's like 3 years ago she was face to face with the A. Now she's on a hill observing the whole scene.

I think she deserves credit for having the strength to now tell the answers she knows are truths. She could have not said a word and let the answers be the same old same old...but no, she wants the 2 of you to face these new truths she has discovered within herself. I think that's amazing that she trusted you and your progress to be able to share. It must have been frightening for her to think you may have believed her original answers could have been lies.

Good job!!


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3763 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She volunteered this information of her own free will, Sisoon? 'Cuz I find it hard to be angry when my wife when my wife volunteers information I would have never found out on my own... For me, it goes a long way towards building trust.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1911 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i think it's scary because it "might" be a threat to your relationship. she now says she really liked the sex. It's good she's understanding the truth. but the sex was with another woman, not you.

what if she decides that part of her personal growth means she really doesn't need you anymore? What if she says, "I love you, but i think I need to close our chapter?'

to me, it's very understandable why it's scary. sure, she see's the depth of her mistakes, but she may also see that she needs to move on after a sincere apology.

i hope not, because i think you love her.

Maybe the fear can subside if you ask her this. does she still love you and want to stay with you, now that she knows she enjoys sex with a woman.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 507 | Registered: Mar 2013
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:07 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No 2x4's here, but I will say that I have been waiting for this day. The old explanation (guilt, sympathy, AP's suicide talks) never sat right with me.

I'm glad that this is coming to light - for both of you.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16297 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Gr8Lady
♀ Member
Member # 36307
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, January 15th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perspective, as well as viewing the circumstances with wiser insight.

As comparison,, the decisions and wisdom you used to make any life decisions will vary from, 20s, 30s 40s etc. that is not to say at any stage of you were life you lacked intelligence,, you merely acquire a wisdom from life experience and new situations that alter your decisions.


BS: Me (63yo)
FWH: HIM (65yo) serial infidelities over past 35 years
OW: Many, most recent 1/2 his age
DD: Multiple unconfirmed until 2012 when I presented evidence, plus LTA with his friends wife lasting 10 years. TT over past year
So done,

Posts: 594 | Registered: Jul 2012
Healinggirl
♀ Member
Member # 39747
Default  Posted: 3:43 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Sisoon

My fWH explained to me that his abuser masturbated him to orgasm, and it felt amazing. The abuser was gentle, even tender (and we're talking about a paedophile here) and for a very good reason. It ensured he kept going back. It was still abuse.

After all, bringing it down to basic biology, the good feelings come from stimulation of the nerve endings, an accomplished manipulator would make it their business to make it feel extremely enjoyable. It's a way of getting someone to go back for more, of controlling them.

At first they tell us and themselves it wasn't good because of the guilt/dirtiness/yuck they felt afterwards. It takes a lot of courage to admit the actual act felt good, a lot.

Just my thoughts. Hope they help.


[This message edited by Healinggirl at 4:02 AM, January 16th (Thursday)]


Me 58
WS 58 Sexually abused as a boy
OW Prostitutes in double figures
OW number ??? Just another immoral female

D Day 11 November 2012
Reconciling

You can't scale a mountain in a single step


Posts: 136 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Uk
HormonalWoman
♀ Member
Member # 29265
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get this too. He says now he's further out and think more clearly, sees more things, can put the puzzle together a bit more and that sometimes means a slightly different bigger picture than before.

The facts remain the same, it's more about how he felt about himself, her, etc that is new/different.

Sometimes it's hard to hear but at the same time, a lot of what he's figuring out for himself now, i figured out myself a long time ago! So it's great to know he's seeing the light so to speak.

It's almost like when you suspect the A but drive yourself crazy wondering, they confirm it, it's devastating but at the same time you are relieved.

The new info can be hard, but at the same time i have also found it a relief he realises things i saw a long time ago.


Together 13 yrs
BW - Me
WH - Him
3 Children
DD 20th June 2010 actual affair was early 2008 for roughly 10 wks.

Posts: 241 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks a lot. Your responses have helped me get unstuck. You've put a bunch of my thoughts and fears into words, so I can deal with them better.

Like you guys, I remain convinced this is a big step forward for her. WRT our R process, it's new info, but it's the same honesty that I have always seen since D-Day. That's what I demanded on D-Day, and I'm happy when I get it, even though I don't always like what I hear. I think she's always scared, but she's honest nevertheless (again, at least since D-day).

We dealt with the issue of ideal sex partner shortly after D-Day, and I thought it was resolved, but the new info really makes it a question again. I need to talk with her some more about this.

Her non-verbal communications say she's committed to monogamy with me, which is what I want, but I want to hear the words, too, and I hadn't realized that when I started this thread.

Onward and upward....


fBH (me) - 65+, fWW (her) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 9732 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think she deserves credit for having the strength to now tell the answers she knows are truths. She could have not said a word and let the answers be the same old same old...but no, she wants the 2 of you to face these new truths she has discovered within herself. I think that's amazing that she trusted you and your progress to be able to share. It must have been frightening for her to think you may have believed her original answers could have been lies.

I can see how this might almost feel like TT to you tho, but at the same time you always suspected it, so it is (objectively) good that WW can admit it to herself & you now.

It helps the whole thing make more sense.
In our sitch too, there are just some pieces to the puzzle that don't fit-----I think that with the perspective of time, the fact that WH & I are closer than we have ever been, & he is starting to really look at things & feel safer talking about them---I think I may be hearing some "revelations" in the future too, & they will probably hurt.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sisoon....do you think there was a part of you that really liked the idea that your wife was somehow taken advantage of? That she was somehow a non-willing partner? If so, do you think you may have intentionally stopped your "investigation" of this when you found the answers you wanted...not the truth?

I know you questioned questioned questioned....but would expect your body language to convey just as much or more to your wife with this question then the actual question did.

Your words were most likely direct in nature...but I could see how your body language could almost plead with your wife to answer in a way you would rather hear.


I ask because for a little bit after my DD I soooo wanted to make the other guy out to be a predator, a person who uses women. But he wasnt....my wife was just as aggessive as he was. Maybe at first he was more so....but my wife was so very into it.

Having said that....
What healinggirl speaks of resonated with me.

My fWH explained to me that his abuser masturbated him to orgasm, and it felt amazing. The abuser was gentle, even tender (and we're talking about a paedophile here) and for a very good reason. It ensured he kept going back. It was still abuse.

My wifes AP dumped her shortly after he had 3 full on sex sessions with her. Her EA went full on sex right at the end...he fucked her twice and she blew him once. Then it was over. He found another woman within 2 months of dumping her (that is how my wifes affair ended).

So I get the theory that my wife was used....and that it shares some similarities in the pedeophile story....and my wife kinda sees the manipulative part of her AP NOW. BUT, the big differnce is.....we are talking about two consenting adults.

I also believed she used her AP too.

I have to watch myself.....personally, upon my DD I dismissed way to much of my wifes choices....made it out to believe her AP more or less took advantage of her. She sat quietly as I did this....why wouldnt she...it was easier.

So I have to fight my own urges to paint a victim-predator relationship when I view my wifes A.

She was not raped, neither was your wife. Even if the other was more aggressive our wives both choose to consent.


Look, we only have the view of our wives affairs through their eyes. We can't assume anything they tell us about their AP or A is true....we have to understand their telling a story from a perspective. As they address their issues...new light is getting shone in. What was an unknown shadowy hump is now a foot stool. What was a dark bedroom is now a full house.

I think it highly likely that not only did I want to believe my wife was taken advantage of, I think it reasonable to believe my wife wanted to believe somehow her choices were not her own.

I could see how your wife is just now ready to face the facts that parts of her affair were, indeed, quite enjoyable.

And that makes sense to me. If affairs did not have enjoyable components they would not be so damn popular!

Hang in there my friend. I know you were looking for people further along to help you out....just felt like trying myself. You have done much for me in the past.

Thank you.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 9:43 AM, January 16th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
mchercheur
♀ Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, January 16th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spot on Blakesteele.

do you think there was a part of you that really liked the idea that your wife was somehow taken advantage of? That she was somehow a non-willing partner? If so, do you think you may have intentionally stopped your "investigation" of this when you found the answers you wanted...not the truth?

I have done this.^^^^^
The truth is, they would not have done it if they did not enjoy it. That hurts.


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1337 | Registered: Dec 2012
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