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Ok, so my WH moved out 5 weeks ago & the night he left he blamed me for his unhappiness & rewrote the history of our marriage to my detriment (please refer my original posts). Anyway, fast forward a week ago & I have seen him 3 times at our house & our conversations have varied from more hostility from him to us being able to have a normal conversation.

I'm very confused as my H is still giving me mixed signals, whether he realizes this or not is another thing but still what's up with that - the below is a summary of my confusion;

He wanted to take some photos of us that I said I would toss out if he did not want them - he said he does not regret the last 12 years (I said I did). Just a week ago he agreed with me when I said we should of broken up after our first year together. And he wanted me out of his life as soon as possible & wanted to fast track the divorce.

He keeps saying he has been unhappy for years yet when I pointed out to him that he said just a year ago that we are lucky to have met, he said that was probably how he felt at the time. He keeps moving the timeframe for when he was unhappy.

We had a few laughs, one at my expense about me finally getting my own car, the first for me at 43 years of age! He actually said "good on you baby". Why call me a pet name after he moved out 5 weeks ago? Seems odd to me, habit or not.   One thing that he loved about me was my humor & wit, so I made sure today that he saw that funny side & we had a few laughs.

I told him he is messed up & having a mid life crisis he actually said do you think so. "I asked myself the same thing". He said that when he got his Harley "he was back", referring to how he felt when he had one in his 20's - if this is not a midlife crisis comment right there, what is?

Commented on my tan "you have some colour". Why is he even paying attention to what I look like since he is with the OW? And more importantly why let me know? Last week he commented on my weight loss (I did not need to lose any more weight).

Said I could contact him at anytime if I had any issues with my car. Again odd for someone who wants me out of there life asap.

He does not like it when I say something negative about our marriage but it is ok for him.

He said that it would be easier to deal with this if he hated me but he can't do it.

Said he was happy that we had "the talk"

The OW rang while we were talking & he ignored the phone call & continued talking for another 10 minutes or so. We spoke for about an hour all up.

It seems that in our case absence does not make the heart grow fonder as we had not seen eachother for a month & the first time we did see eachother he was hostile & blamed me for his cheating. Oh & he finally admitted for the first time that they are more than friends! Yet each time I have seen him since, he is mellowing slightly. To my credit with all the research I've been doing I have been nothing but cool & calm very unlike me. I have shown no anger, while he on the other hand, the cheater has been very short & swearing etc. I feel that he is currently revealing more than I am. Again, odd as he is usually so secretive.

My question is what is the best way for me to act if I want him to continue mellowing & realise the errors of his ways. Do I pull back & not always be home when he comes round or do I continue letting him see the new changed stronger me (I am getting counselling  for anger issues stemming from my childhood). I have displayed no anger what so ever & some of our conversation was normal like he had not even left.

Am I clutching at nothing here? At the very least his actions show that he is one confused individual.......

I really am not the best person to be giving advice considering my situation and desires to have my life returned to some kind of normalcy. But what I've learned so far is that it's best to finds ways to disengage! And, by what you've posted you're doing pretty good at that so far. I admire how you've been able to keep your WH out of you life and have been moving on. I wish I had more inner strength to do the same. Anyway, I believe you're best path is to pursue NC. And that means to not let him see you, talk to you, let him in the house and any other means he uses to contact you! Ultimately what you need is for him to breakdown and come back on his knees begging for forgivness, anything short of that is unacceptable! If your relationship is to survive and become a healthy "shared" love for each other than you must distroy the old, broken, dysfunctional patterns that define who you and WH were.

If by some unlikely chance that your WH does breakdown then you'll have the chance for a future together. But, for now you must believe there iz NO future with him! As I've read here many times, he is a pod-person who will use ALL of the people around him to hide from himself! DON'T LET HIM USE YOU!!!

Like is said earlier, you've got a great start, you don't have to seee him anymore. Believe me when I say that is a blessing. Build you friends, network and build more. Keep him 100% away, leave him to his AP. The mear fact that his coming to see and talk to you is an indication that he may be having 2nd thoughts. If you give any sign that you're still there for him he WON'T change and will instead keep using you like he is using his AP. Don't let this happen.

P.S. I wisk I could practice what I preach....

He left.

It's time to let him get a REAL feel for what leaving means.

* It means he doesn't get to come and go as he'd like. He left.

* It means he doesn't get to "share some laughs" with you. He left.

* It means he doesn't get the opportunity to tell you you're to blame for his unhappiness. He left.

* It means you don't discuss the relationship, because there isn't one. He left. (Your marriage is over, no matter what the outcome. He destroyed it. If you are to remain married, you will have to build a new marriage from the ground up.)

* It means he doesn't have the opportunity to admire your tan, or hair, or body. He left.

He's not going to "mellow" or "realize the error of his ways" if he's allowed to have his cake and eat it, too.

He has no motivation to change. He either finds you relatively calm and willing to "share a laugh," or upset. Both fulfill his needs, the first by showing him that what he did couldn't be all that bad, if you're able to laugh with him still, and the latter by showing him that you ARE that shrew who made him so unhappy, which permits him to justify his affair further.

There is nothing to talk about as long as he is still engaged in his affair.

In the Healing Library, under BS FAQs, there are instructions for the 180. It's very difficult, at first. Believe me, I know this; I was utterly incapable. But with practice, you will begin to see how much better a healthy detachment feels.

You can't control your husband. You can only control yourself.

Will he come back? I have no idea. But you can't really direct that outcome.

Thing is, he's gone now.

Let him have a taste of what that really means.

Please don't let him have all of the parts of you he enjoyed AND OW. Just do the 180. No long chats, no laughs. He left - that means no you for him.

Giving him you while he is with her will never let him miss you, because you're still there.

At this rate, if he is 'with' OW, you will become the BW and the OW. Don't create this mess. He left - you are gone.

You are doing really well. I do believe he is getting to cake eat. When you share a joke and chat and create a normal setting it allows him to see you are his friend... He didn't do anything THAT wrong. or worse that plan B will be an option if things don't work out with the A.

He shouldn't beable to stop by when ever he want's -- and your shouldn't be waiting around for him.

Thanks for all the honest replies, it helps me focus on reality!

I know his cheating should be enough for me to move on but I did not want to be yet another divorce statistic, it makes me feel like I have failed, even though he is the one who cheated.

Trying to reboot - thank you for your admiration but I don't think it's worthy as outwardly I'm portraying a stronger me but inside I am still the same betrayed person who is grieving the loss of a 10 yr marriage without the opportunity to repair it. You have given me very good advice. I have read your posts and think you are doing well & not giving yourself enough credit!

Solus Sto - You are so correct, HE left & here I am making it easy on him! Helping him to lose any guilt he may have. When I said he had lowered his standards with the OW, he had the nerve to say that he would be happy for me if I met someone. I replied & said I would be happy for you if you met her if we had broken up & we were not married. The guy has absolutely no idea & I question my sanity when I have a weak moment & want him back.

Painful past - I like your interpretation that as a BW if I remain in contact with him I end up the OW as well! Yep, he left I am gone. Time to stop wasting energy thinking about what he is doing & where I went wrong focus all my energy on the 180....

Freeme - yes, I agree I am making this too easy for him & the friendlier I am with him the easier this whole affair thing will be for him & he will not be feeling any regret what so ever!

I think my problem is kidding myself  that I have moved on while hoping that he regrets what he has done & begs for my forgiveness. But that may not happen & even if it does, does he really deserve me? I know i am better than the OW, inside & out & know that i deserve better than my H but still i find this so painful. I told him I could never trust him again & he knows that. The most frustrating thing for me is that he refuses to compare himself to his cheating father as "nothing happened until he left, they were just friends, it was not planned, it just happened". He has no idea about emotional affairs or the fact that he no doubt slept with her within the first week of moving out while we are still married!

If I am to be honest with myself I know that we are better off without eachother & I am fearful of being alone. At 43, i feel too old to get back out on the dating scene. If only it happened when i was younger. It's the betrayal & rejection that hurts the most & the regret that we did not attempt to fix the 10 year marriage before he strayed. But I said to him at least I'll have no regrets down the track but he may as I wanted to try & fix the marriage, he didn't. That doubt will always be with him.

After reading the posts I realise my error of being too accessible & by me being friendly to him takes away his guilt - not what i want. I want this guilt to haunt him. But I also wanted him to see that I have changed & no longer angry like him as he said I would never change! He was angry when he arrived yesterday so i hope that is an indication of the reality he has created for himself. And me getting a car was a real eye opener for him. The shock on his face when he saw I got the car was priceless. I'm so glad I was there to see it & so was my sister in law. My family all said he would be shocked when i got the car but I did not see it as such a big deal, but it was!  The next time he saw me he said none of the people he told could believe that I got a car. So here he is still talking about me to "other people", the woman he no longer wants in his life! I told him so as well.

Yesterday  i told him he was complacent about life in general (he is not a doer or a leader) & he denied it. BUT just last week when I asked him why did he stay so long in an "unhappy marriage" his reply was that he was "complacent". The guy really does not know if he is Martha or Arthur! I can see in his face that he has regret & feels bad for what he has done but is still continuing the affair so the regret cannot be that strong. He has now apologised 3 times since he admitted to the affair. He said who knows if it will work out with this one but he may have been saying that for my benefit.

Supposedly all the lies he has told me have been to spare my feelings! I told him that i know so much more about his continual lies (which i do) but did not elaborate. He admitted that he can't get much past me as I'm too cluey. I took that as a compliment :)

Unfortunately, i can't stop him coming around at the moment as he is removing the rest of his belongings & he has agreed to maintain the house & get it in a saleable condition before we sell it. He would rather fix it up than for us to pay professionals.

I thank my brother for forcing me to get real & get him to get all his stuff & Harley out & stop using me & the house as a door mat. As he was spending every weekend with her shacked up in her unit in la la land while I looked after his pets. At the very least I have forced his fantasy into reality quicker than he anticipated. He now as to find time to set himself up in his mum's house, maintain our house & find time for the she bloke OW all the while working full time. He had the gall to tell me he was tired from all the running around he has been doing in the last week! He had it cushy with me as all he had to worry about was work & what to watch on tv! And he thought he was escaping such a bad life!

UPDATE

Ok, so my H just drives past the house & 2 minutes later he sends me a text saying "Hi BS, I just drove past the house to put the bins out & they were already out. Leave them next time as they were heavy & I'll take them up. Thanks WH"

Like seriously, I can't trust him to keep our marriage vows but I should trust him to take the bins out! What part of him moving out of our home does he not get?

And "thanks" for what? Thanks in advance for letting me help you out so that i can offload some guilt. Oh well, there is no way I am going to relieve him of any guilt after the pain & heartache he has put me through. Needless to say I ignored the message

Look, you can't suck and blow at the same time. That's what he's been doing for WAY too long, now.

He moved out and is involved with the OW. That doesn't entitle to him to ANY of the previous comforts of home.

Or you.

Period.

That's like quitting one job for another job and then going back to your old desk a couple times a week just to sit there and still be a part of the old office.

No can do.

He MADE a choice. That doesn't mean he gets to have the OW as well as keeping his foot in your front door so he still has the satisfaction of knowing you're there waiting for him. Quite honestly, that's humiliating and degrading for you that he knows you'd take him back in a New York minute. That accomplishes absolutely NOTHING but giving him all the power to do as he pleases because he knows you're putty in his hands.

Why are you giving him one ounce of your power?

As long as he knows your door is always open should he call you and ask to come home, he ain't gonna do it. You're just an insurance policy to him right now. Hey, if he blows it with his side piece, he always has good old Duskpearl waiting in the wings, happy to have him back.

That's how you appear to him - whether he TELLS you that or not. It's how you appear to him.

There's no pride in that at all.

Seriously Duskpearl, you need to slam the door on this buffoon and take control of your life back. If you don't, you're always just going to appear desperate to him.

Cut him off at the knees. He chose another life - that means his old life should no longer be available to him. He hasn't even really experienced what his new life is like because you keep giving him access to his OLD one. Therefore, he can enjoy keeping one foot in BOTH.

Stop the insanity.

Cut him off at the knees and let him REALLY see the true results of the decision he chose to make.

Stop the flirting, the texting, the visits, the little trips down memory lane, the arguments about whose fault it was that he had his crap affair (and give him a message for ME - tell him to OWN HIS SHIT!), letting him cut your grass and put out your garbage and unclog your sink and every other little chore that he wants to feel 'needed' for - stop it ALL.

Go to a lawyer, find out exactly what you can expect, and shut this man out of your life.

If you really want him back, you need to DO this. What you're doing is NOT working for you. It's not.

.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 9:35 AM, January 23rd (Thursday)]

Good for you not answering the message! Keep it up and stay strong

Opinions please -

My cousin sent the below message to my WH once she found out he was cheating (without my prior knowledge). His reply is also attached.

WH, I have been informed by X that you're having an affair. I'm waiting for BS to come back to me so I can at least get her side, not just from family members. I want to give you the same respect. Please have the same for me and reply honestly. I have always thought of you as a brother in law and always cherished when you and BS came to visit me in Hawaii. I remember how supportive you both were after X. And WH, i also remember my heart breaking for you when you told me about your fiancé cheating on you, how you discovered it, how you sat in your garage for 6 months crying in your beer. Knowing your dad did this frightens me to think you've turned into the same man. WH to think you now have done what your fiancé did to you to BS  really makes me sad and angry. Angry that you could do that to my cousin, the one person that truly loved you and would have never cheated on you. I'm sad for you because it seems like you ended up with someone who has no self value or morals. She will, mark my words, do the same to you. Bleeps (and I can call her that given her behavior) don't change. We will as a family support BS if this ends up in divorce. You will not harass her or hinder her financially in this. Again I'm saddened by what I've heard and least expected this from you. I'm sorry your mum isn't here, I know that she would be the number one person ashamed by your behavior. Please have the decency to reply. She is my cousin and I love her dearly. We also loved you as a family member.

WH replied;

Thanks X, I have no interest in harming BS physically or with $$$$ we are on speaking terms & calm at the moment. Unfortunately people drift apart in life, the last thing I wanted to do was hurt BS, but you should know from your own past things happen. Comparing me to my father is completely wrong & in bad taste by you & BS family. My father had an affair for 7 years while he was still married. I left BS, OW was a friend that turned into something more after I left. I know none of you will believe this & I really don't care if you do but that's what happened. I'm not proud of the time factor here. And to put it in perspective for all of you I pursued her. Not the other way round.  Please take care X. I know you all have BS best interests at heart, I knew long ago that when this day came I'd be turned on, so I except this email as you looking out for her. I do care for BS & always will, I just couldn't see myself spending the rest of my life with her, she has admitted the same to me also. I will always have fond memories of our holidays to Hawaii & catching up. Keep in touch if you want, I'll leave that one up to you.   Regards WH

My cousin's reply to his reply;

WH, whether or not you pursed her is irrelevant. She knows you're married. I'm not going to name call her, but understand she is also in the wrong here. You telling me you pursued her confirms that you wanted more before you left BS. And you can see how that is wrong surely. No one is turning on you WH. I'm just stating the truth. Your dad cheated on your mum, I don't care for how long. The fact is he did. But surely there must be some heart left in you to see that her family loves her and will stand by her. And as for the other woman....,she is the one that has to live with the fact that she ruined a marriage. WH, I see misery for both of you cause one of you will cheat again.

Anyway, my Q is - is it just me or is my WH admiting to cheating & denying it at the same time?

Is he justified in his desire to not be compared to his father because he left me before their "friendship" turned to more than friends? Let's ignore the fact that he is married. He truly believes he has done nothing wrong.

I would accept that he could not grow old with me if there was no OW. I could accept that he could not grow old with me if he did not tell me he loved me & carried on living like nothing was wrong.

Don't worry I don't want him back just want opinions on whether his excuses are valid - I don't think they are....

Oh & is it normal behaviour for my WH to be eating out every single night & be the one to pay for everything? We never ate out that often & I get sense that she may be using him if he is paying for everything - remember he is 43, she is 30.

[This message edited by Duskpearl at 5:04 AM, January 31st (Friday)]

I'm still in an angry/shock phase, so grain of salt.

If what I was going through right now had that kind of background I think I'd say fuck that spouse. My parents cheated on each other. The time frame doesn't matter, it still happened. I knew I didn't want to be like that and never did it. To think someone could live through seeing/knowing of that pain and then bring it to someone else pisses me off to no end.

Ask your cousin not to share stuff like that with you anymore. He's just spouting crazy cheater double-speak; it doesn't mean shit. And it hurts you to hear it.

And if you have not already, please go see a lawyer and at the minimum, file for a legal separation if not divorce. If he is taking OW out to eat every night, YOU are in effect, paying for HER dinner since 1/2 of all marital assets are yours. If you do not have your finances untangled and separate, he is spending YOUR money on his bit-o-nookie and that is money that you will never get back.

Filing and having him served means that your finances are now tracked and anything he spends on "outside" pursuits, you are entitled to get back.

Hurting fool- thankyou for your reply. Yes, it makes him an even worse person for going through the pain himself & still put me through it! Pure evil & that is probably the reason he wants to deny it-loser! Good on you for not following in the footsteps of your parents & not having the mentality of 2 wrongs make a right.

I think I can - thankyou for your reply. I know he is cheater no matter how he spins it in his head. And the longer the affair lasts the stronger I am becoming & will not take him back!

Skan-our finances are separate & always have been. We have agreed verbally (& in email) that the marital home will be split 50/50 & we both keep our savings & retirement funds. He knows I don't want a share in his mother's property so he knows I can go for more so I don't think he will get too smart with me there. Personally, I think she may be using him as what decent woman who also works lets the man pay for every single thing? Plus she is in love with his stupid Harley!

The whole thing is pathetic!

Just be on your guard with this person until all the legal aspects of this separation and D are said and done..

I know that when I untangle myself from my mess, I am not gonna let any future romantic relationships married, live- in or otherwise endanger my livelihood, ability to live on my own...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 3:40 PM, January 31st (Friday)]

Thanks Doggie Diva, I know not to trust a word that comes out of his mouth. I've been advised by 2 lawyers that I should get 50/50 in everything if it gets nasty so he should play ball. Money means everything to him so I don't think he will throw it away on lawyers - but he knows I will! I've also led him to believe that I get free legal advice as I work in law firm. I don't,

Dusk--

Some great advice here from Diva; and, I will tell you that where I live, it really ain't over with until 30 days after the divorce is final. So I would say be on your guard until that point, and then---you can finally take that deep breath.

Hang in there honey!

Thanks mandan66 - It may be best if I pursue a legally binding financial document now to get everything we agreed on.

I make twice as much as him so I know the longer this drags out it will be to my detriment if he wants half of my assets.

Thing is he is a completely different person now with no morals or scruples & has changed his whole way of living overnight. I still can't comprehend it! And I just need to remind myself that I didn't think he would ever cheat on me so I should not be so foolish to think that he would not rip me off!

You are doing great. He is very insistent on keeping his spotless reputation but it must feel good to know your family is behind you 100% whatever he says.

Honey, in a nutshell, he is hoovering. Plain and simple. He is cake eating too. Trying to keep the homefront fires burning in case he changes his mind and needs a soft landing.

Like others said, if he isn't crawling back sobbing and giving you EVERYTHING you need to heal, then ignore his "mixed signals", and continue 180 and NC as much as possible.

Let him know with your actions that he gets no home baked ego kibbles....as Brandon808 often told me, the kitchen is closed!