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User Topic: WS Loving the BS During The Affair – Some Thoughts
painfulpast
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Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a problem with the heroin analogy as well. Heroin is a physically addictive drug. Addicts are on it all the time, or there are withdrawal symptoms that are horrific if experienced. This is not true with a person in an affair. Also, a heroin addict is not stealing from you to go have another 'family to love'. They are doing for reasons that are completely unrelated you your relationship with them. A heroin addict is, to some degree, not mentally 'with it' because they are on a mild altering drug.

A cheater is deliberately hurting the BS. They are lying directly to them, about them. They often say horrible things about the BS. They are betraying the BS in ways that are so deep, so cutting, that to compare it to stealing is almost insulting to those that have been affected by infidelity. Stealing is very impersonal.

I contend, again, there is no love from a WS to a BS during an affair. You cannot, imo, love someone and look them dead in the eye and lie, day in and day out. You cannot say terrible things behind their back. You cannot want to get away from them to see or speak to AP. You simply cannot.

Love is a feeling and a verb. Both descriptions are absent during an affair.

Romantic love is NOT unconditional. The treatment of a BS is so harsh, so cold, so uncaring, that to assume love exists is, to me, fairy tale thinking.

Not wishing harm on someone is not love. There is not one loving action towards the BS during an affair, because all of it is lies.

My opinion, of course, but I can't see how anyone can look at some of the despicable and disgustingly disrespectful actions that occur during an A and think that there is love anywhere in there. It's a void.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heroin is a physically addictive drug. Addicts are on it all the time, or there are withdrawal symptoms that are horrific if experienced. This is not true with a person in an affair.
I think there are a great many fWS who'd argue that 'AP withdrawal' is a real thing....and no, the physical symptoms are not nearly as bad as heroin withdrawal, but if I'm not mistaken infatuation does have addictive properties to it. I see parallels between affairs and addictions generally, I just chose heroin because that's where my core experience comes from.
Also, a heroin addict is not stealing from you to go have another 'family to love'. They are doing for reasons that are completely unrelated you your relationship with them.
I agree, but I think that's true for affairs as well. The WS might frame it to the AP or co-conspirators as the result of a mean BS or a bad marriage, but we all know that it's not the case...it's due to internal issues unrelated to anyone else.
They are betraying the BS in ways that are so deep, so cutting, that to compare it to stealing is almost insulting to those that have been affected by infidelity. Stealing is very impersonal.
I don't want to get into a pissing contest about which hurts worse, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that you'd be shocked at how personal the thievery and other manipulations can feel.
You cannot, imo, love someone and look them dead in the eye and lie, day in and day out. You cannot say terrible things behind their back. You cannot want to get away from them to see or speak to AP. You simply cannot.
And I guess what I'm saying is that I think you can. I think every single BS, if they dig deep enough and are honest with themselves, can come up with at least a handful of times in life that they knew something they were going to do was going to adversely affect someone they 'loved'....and went ahead and did it anyway, simply because they wanted to at that moment.

There are acts of selfishness both big and small, but the basic mindset isn't that different, in my opinion.

All the other stuff, the throwing the BS under the bus and all the fuckery that WS engage in is just self-justifications, to me. It doesn't excuse those actions and the need for redress, but I just recognize that they needed to tell themselves that stuff in order to perpetuate the illusion.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2185 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
JustWow
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Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, the action of the A kind of undoes all the other so-called loving actions that may have occurred during the A. What were those actions about anyway? Cover? To keep me from being suspicious? A minor gesture to keep me as plan B?

Would you be willing to have your WS nurse you back from the flu if you KNEW they were cheating at the time??

I wouldn't be looking to him to help me with anything if I had known because he would not have been living here.

Pretty frosting on a rancid cake. If the fundamentals (fidelity, honesty, respect) weren't there at the time, everything else was window dressing - designed to manipulate the BS into remaining as a baker in the cake-eater's bakery.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3636 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess for me it kind of boils down to intent, like refuz said...as in, is she taking care of me while I have the flu in order to make me less suspicious of her other, more nefarious actions...? Or is she just doing it because she honestly wants me to feel better? I just don't know how you can ever really know someone's intent, infidelity or not.

ETA:

...designed to manipulate the BS into remaining as a baker in the cake-eater's bakery.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think a great many WS (and people generally) are far, far more impulse-driven than intentionally manipulative. There is certainly a subset of the population that is intentionally manipulative and actually sociopathic, but I imagine it's a relatively small number of people, proportionally. My feelings is that a great many people say and do whatever will get them out of whatever uncomfortable situation or feeling they find themselves in at that moment, without thought of the consequences: good, bad, or neither.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 7:48 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2185 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Jesu
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Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a and living with a close family member that was a heroin addict, I think it's a completely fair comparison. I've lived through both so I think I'm qualified to have an opinion on this.


Me: BSO 39
Her: WSO 29
Together: 9 years
Married?: No
Children?: No
OM: A friend of a friend
DD#1: June 18th 2012
Many more DD after TT
PA#1: 1 week in Nov/Dec 2010, which led to a long distance EA
R: ?

Posts: 608 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Oz
JustWow
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Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Facepunched -
whether they weigh out consciously or not to do whatever is comfortable -for them-, to get out of the hot seat...... or do it on autopilot, the end result is manipulative.

A lie is manipulation. A lie is intentional.

And sure, H had some lovely, what he believed to be "genuine" feelings for me during his A...Whoop-de-doo, huh? He also had what he believed to be "genuine" feelings for OW...... and what are those worth today? Somehow more or less than those feelings he had for me simultaneously?

Feelings are fleeting. Actions - take effort, commitment, some giving of oneself.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3636 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
nomistakeaboutit
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Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have always seen parallels between addiction and affairs.

Here's one instance,though, where I think the heroin parallel breaks down. In an A, there is always the possibility of a positive outcome. The APs marry and live happily ever after. That can and does happen with some affairs, so it is a possibility. With heroin, that never happens.

The addiction parallel also doesn't apply well to exit As or ONS.

Also, FacePunched, I wonder if you would extend the credit for her bring loving to you when you were sick, if immediately after caring for you and comforting you she had grabbed a frying pan and unceremoniously crashed it into your face and broke your nose. I'm sure not, but isn't that what really what happened, just not as immediate and in a much worse way?


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 963 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 9:43 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel FP's use of his brothers' heroin addiction as an analogy to infidelity is a fair and accurate one.
The point of this article is to provide understanding of what occurs at a chemical level as a result of how our brains interact with our ever-expanding world of technology and exposure to endless novel possibilities.

I want it, I gotta have it – how the “craving chemical,” dopamine, affects our sexual appetite.

Let’s first take a look at dopamine. It is involved with our “reward center” of the brain. When we engage in something we find pleasurable, we get a release of dopamine. Dopamine activation results in stress reduction and further increased feelings of well-being. Subsequently, this surge in dopamine will increase the likelihood that we engage in that behavior again.

Additionally, dopamine is released when there is salient (new or important) information in our direct environment. This phenomenon was coined by Frank A. Beach as the “Coolidge Effect.” Research conducted by Fiorino, Coury, and Phillips at the University of British Columbia, proved the Coolidge Effect when they found that male rats showed renewed sexual interest when introduced to new receptive sexual partners despite refusing sex from former (yet still available) partners. Dopamine levels fell once the novel stimulus (a new partner, or cheeseburger, perhaps) was no longer new and exciting.

Here is the link to the complete article, if interested. There is a lot of research in this area, and it seems to me the consensus of most researchers is that infidelity can be very much like addiction in that the same chemicals are released in the brain with heroin and these sexual encounters/affairs. Which can start a cycle. Hhhhmmmm, OW as a bad habit?

eta: http://erelationshipadvicecafe.com/the-anatomy-of-a-cheating-brain/

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:45 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9844 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
SisterMilkshake
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Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, January 22nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel one can be empathetic without being vulnerable to manipulation or just plain co-dependent. I believe they call them boundaries.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9844 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Ostrich80
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Default  Posted: 2:48 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a and living with a close family member that was a heroin addict, I think it's a completely fair comparison. I've lived through both so I think I'm qualified to have an opinion on this.

Ditto!! ^^^

Living in a home with both of these going on at the same timw,i found many similarities. I had the same type of emotions towards both parties. I have actually told a few close friends that both brought.up such similar feelings in me. I was happy to read this post because I was met with some strange looks when I said it. I guess its hard for some to feel this way if they have not experienced or even if they have.
Wanting to believe the lies, knowing what's coming out.of the mouth isn't true,, feeling crazy because actions don't match words, wanting so bad to believe its over but having that sick feeling its not. I've said these things regarding my ws AND my son. I saw both break down and say they hated themselves for the pain they caused and profess their love. I believe it was real.

[This message edited by Ostrich80 at 2:53 AM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5171 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
refuz2bavictim
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Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So refuz, I guess my question is then, how do you recognize and judge 'intent'? I mean, you have good reason (I assume) to think that he's not cheating anymore, and so do you assume that the things he did before and still does now are automatically done with a better, more authentic 'intent'?

Our Intentions permeate everything we do (my belief). I can get insight about FWH's intentions, by observing his behavior. Behaviors shift as the intentions shift. (obviously a sociopath would use this in a different way making it less possible to detect, but thankfully I'm not dealing with that)

That's where the painful review of events was helpful. I know have experience with his behavior when he's being duplicitous. I have to use what I know and question what I don't know. And when I don't know... I ask. Asking the question, changes the dynamic, provokes thought and sometimes creates unexpected growth.


The cup of coffee is still a cup of coffee. Feel better soup is feel better soup. Nice is nice. The acts themselves don't contain "love". I just know to pay attention for any changes in the way he goes about these tasks.

Keep in mind that during the A, *I* was in the way.
All the time. In the morning when he was handing me my coffee, he was in a hurry, wanting to get back into a place where he could get on with his texting, sexting, and emailing.

I was standing between him and his "heroin" you could say. And he was on that heroin in his mind at all times.

His behavior is vastly different. No rushing to get me on my way, no sudden needs to go somewhere, or to get away etc.... And I appreciate the fact that he takes the time to have coffee with me, to look me in the eye etc...
,
All of this means that I have to be more mindful...no more autopilot for me, during coffee. More intention behind everything that I do.

He loved me less and less and his indifference toward me grew. He was acting against love.

That's just the way it was. In order for us to strengthen our relationship, we need to remain mindful, love intentionally and both share an understanding of what it means to "love" .


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
NikkiD
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Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

flu...she took care of me, got me soup, worked for me, etc.....those are loving actions, certainly

Is that loving? I mean, at work, if a person was sick, but unable to go home immiedately...if they needed soup Id get it. Id do their work for them if I was capable. Id do it for my college roommate too.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
AFrayedKnot
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Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He loved me less and less and his indifference toward me grew.

Funny story (well not so funny), a couple weeks after Dday, I said to fWS that I have never loved someone and hated them so much in my life. She replied "Hate isn't the opposite of love, indifference is!!!". I just nodded my head speechless.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2647 | Registered: Aug 2012
NikkiD
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Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I bring up my brothers a lot on here because they’re both sober (former) heroin addicts and I think that for me there are a great many, many parallels to infidelity.


Interesting...there is a show called "Being Mary Jane." And on the most recent episode, Mary Jane's brother caught her giving Oral to a man. When they looked up and saw him, brother and man realized they new each other and Brother said "aww damn sis, we screwing married men now??"

So when they talked about it later, brother (a recovering cocaine addict) equated her inablity to leave the married man alone to his struggle with cocaine. That the man/cocaine were filling a void. That even they knew that its making it worse, they were addicted to they high they got.

So with you mentioning your brothers, and having seen this episode, I can see where you are going with that.

[This message edited by NikkiD at 9:04 AM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's one instance,though, where I think the heroin parallel breaks down. In an A, there is always the possibility of a positive outcome. The APs marry and live happily ever after. That can and does happen with some affairs, so it is a possibility. With heroin, that never happens.

The addiction parallel also doesn't apply well to exit As or ONS.

I totally agree with you. The parallel is not 1:1 thing, just that there are a great many aspects that I think coincide.

Sister-

Thanks for the info...I knew it was out there, I was just too lazy to go look for it.

I feel one can be empathetic without being vulnerable to manipulation or just plain co-dependent. I believe they call them boundaries.
Right. That's why I think the empathy component comes into play probably down the line once it's been earned by consistent actions....I think if you're, you know, weeks after DDAY and start being all understanding you're probably looking for trouble


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2185 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
painfulpast
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Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, but I think that's true for affairs as well. The WS might frame it to the AP or co-conspirators as the result of a mean BS or a bad marriage, but we all know that it's not the case...it's due to internal issues unrelated to anyone else.

I think this is a cop out. An A is acting the way a person should ONLY be acting with their spouse. The stealing is nothing like that.

Also - I know what it's like to have a close family member steal from me. It's very person. To me - it's not close to cheating.

And to say an affair 'adversely affects' a BS is such a gross understatement. Forgetting milk at the store adversely affects me. Not getting my oil changed adversely affects me. Hell, taking my car adversely affects me. Cheating on me destroys the very foundation that I have built my life on. You're discussing it like it's taking some gum from my purse or forgetting to pay the cable bill. It's not close.

Yes, they thought about what they did, over and over. They wanted more. They lied. They cheated. They talked behind our backs about how awful we are. They made jokes at our expense to make AP laugh. They lied more. They sat with us texting AP.

Again, if you think a person can do all of the above and actually love the BS, that's your opinion and I do appreciate the opportunity to read it and contemplate it. However, my stance hasn't changed one bit. There is absolutely NO love for the BS.

Can you see yourself acting this way towards ANYONE you love? Anyone at all?

The WS doesn't even like themselves most of the time if there is an A. If you don't love yourself you can't possibly love anyone else. You're too busy wondering why they give a rat's ass about you and convincing yourself they don't care.

The entire mindset of a WS is absolute insanity, but love? Ha, no, not once. If so, please tell me which of your relatives you would treat like this that you love. Please tell me which you would deliberately deceive and make a fool of and make them question every last thing in their life for time with someone you don't even care about.

Which family member will you repeatedly lie to and betray in the most intimate of ways?


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
painfulpast
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Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think a great many WS (and people generally) are far, far more impulse-driven than intentionally manipulative. There is certainly a subset of the population that is intentionally manipulative and actually sociopathic, but I imagine it's a relatively small number of people, proportionally. My feelings is that a great many people say and do whatever will get them out of whatever uncomfortable situation or feeling they find themselves in at that moment, without thought of the consequences: good, bad, or neither.

So when they lie to get out of the house to go see AP, that isn't intentional? When they are texting AP while sitting next to you, that's not intentional? When they bought burner phones, it wasn't to intentionally continue to deceive?

FP, no disrespect, but I almost feel like you're romanticizing the WS. Oh, it's not their fault. They were addicted. They really did love us. Oh, the poor, poor WS.

It's bullshit. These are the cheaters that lied intentionally. That betrayed intentionally. That did whatever they wanted with a complete disregard for anyone else, particularly their spouse.

Can it be a good person doing a bad thing at a bad time in their life? Absolutely. It isn't some innocent character that deserves pity. It is a person that created fake emails and invented friends and did all sorts of premeditated acts to be able to cheat.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
ReunitePangea
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Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe my WW's affair is so different that I have a hard time relating to some of the strong opinions on this topic of a WS loving the BS during the affair that I do not understand - however I do not think it is as black and white as some are presenting it.

They talked behind our backs about how awful we are. They made jokes at our expense to make AP laugh

Actually this did not happen in my case - the opposite happened. I have letters that prove it. My WW talked up my good points and the OM indicated he wished he could be more like that - I have it in writing.

For me, the action of the A kind of undoes all the other so-called loving actions that may have occurred during the A.

We all make mistakes and a WS having an A is a HUGE mistake - but no way will I throw everything that is good out the window. Maybe it is my situation that won't allow me to do this - my WW's LTA goes back to day 1.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think a great many WS (and people generally) are far, far more impulse-driven than intentionally manipulative.

FP I think you are right on here. I agree that many WS are impulse-driven rather than intentially manipulative. For some WS they were taking part in actions that eventually would lead to their A without even understanding those actions would take them there. Yes the WS that posted craig's list ads probably were more intentionally manipulative. Other WS AP started off as a friendship that evolved into something it shouldnt have because the WS didn't realize the poor boundary issues.

How many BS here have adjusted how they behave now that they know more about how A's start - perhaps you communicate with a co-worker different now, different attitude on porn maybe, know that checking in on what an old boyfriend or girlfriend is doing now is a bad idea......because we changed our behavior as a BS to better insure we do not fall into the WS trap do we love our spouses more? I think we are just more aware of affairs and it is not because of a change in love that we do these things.

Not all affairs are the same. Some WS probably have zero love for their BS when they have their affairs. They gave up on their marriages. This is not always the case. Some affairs happen in good marriage. Some WS still very much love their BS but are too broken individually. LTA's are a strange type of affair were often WS at many times want to end it but are too broken or fearful of doing this. Statements that indicate 100% this or 100% that are very bold in my opinion given the various different types of affairs.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
Ascendant
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Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An A is acting the way a person should ONLY be acting with their spouse. The stealing is nothing like that.
Oh, it's in no way a perfect comparison. I think there are parallels, but like I said earlier today, it is not 1:1.
You're discussing it like it's taking some gum from my purse or forgetting to pay the cable bill. It's not close.
No. I am attempting to discuss it dispassionately. I have never equated affairs or cheating with petty thievery in terms of the seriousness of the crime. What I said, or maybe meant but didn't explain thoroughly, was that having been both a BS AND the loved one of an addict is that in my experience, the emotions have been very similar, and that I think the challenges faced by a BS and someone whose loved one is an addict are roughly similar. Also, that the selfish mindset of the addiction and the affair are roughly similar in the minds of those committing them.
Yes, they thought about what they did, over and over. They wanted more. They lied. They cheated. They talked behind our backs about how awful we are. They made jokes at our expense to make AP laugh. They lied more. They sat with us texting AP.
I think that you're projecting and generalizing here, because this sounds awfully personal to me. I've read my wife's text transcripts...and my wife didn't say anything at my expense to make OM laugh...and besides, she's awful at telling jokes.
Can you see yourself acting this way towards ANYONE you love? Anyone at all?

...

If so, please tell me which of your relatives you would treat like this that you love. Please tell me which you would deliberately deceive and make a fool of and make them question every last thing in their life for time with someone you don't even care about.

Which family member will you repeatedly lie to and betray in the most intimate of ways?

So, who would I intentionally set out to hurt it the most intimate of ways? Probably no one in my family...but I think that your mindset assumes an original malicious intent and ignores the entire 'slippery slope' theory....which is fine if it is, but then we're speaking two different languages here. Do you think that as soon as most waywards get married they think to themselves, "Oooh, I cannot wait for this sucker to get comfortable, because I am going to cheat the fuck out of this situation!"...? I have a hard time believing that.

I can tell you that I (like most people) have done plenty of things that I either didn't know or didn't care about the consequences to people I loved, but did it anyway because that was what I wanted to at the time. What I'm saying is that selfish impulsive decisions and the accompanying mindset is damn-near universal....and once you can recognize that you've been in that mindset (even in a minor sense), then we're just talking about scale in terms of the atrociousness of the transgression(s) you're dealing with. Maybe what separates people who have full-blown affairs from those that don't is how often they go to that well of justification.

And maybe a lot of it is specific to our situations: my wife cheated with a long-time friend, someone who would have been considered a FOTM, and it developed fairly slowly into an EA and then a PA....I don't pretend to know what the mental dynamics are of someone who signs up on Ashley Madison specifically looking to fuck around, or has a ONS with some rando from a bar, but I'd wager that they're still attempting to distract themselves from some internal void.

FP, no disrespect, but I almost feel like you're romanticizing the WS. Oh, it's not their fault. They were addicted. They really did love us. Oh, the poor, poor WS.
Ohhhhhhh, no. It is definitely their fault. No matter how the affair began, everyone is responsible for their own fidelity. I have to say, though, from reading your posts, I'm thinking that maybe what I empathize with is moreso the initial steps into the slippery slope....but not all the other fuckery that happens once a person gets alllllllll the way to the bottom.

Because I'm right with you in other aspects: buying burner phones, sneaking around, etc....even outside of the moral aspect, it just seems exhausting...but y'know, I've been accused of being lazy, too. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 4:25 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2185 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
Blobette
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Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP -- LOL and second on the laziness front! Even before DD, I thought having two men sounded too much like hard work for me! It's hard enough dealing with one guy's bitching and moaning and need for ego boosting and attention -- why on EARTH would I want to deal with TWO? Too, too exhausting! And lying -- geez. You have remember stuff and all. I hardly manage to remember what days I need to make sure my kid has his violin for violin lessons!

Nope, I like a nice, simple life. Oh, well. So much for that!


BS (me): 50
WS: 50
Married: 26 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

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