Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: losttrust1231 (44270)

General Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: WS Loving the BS During The Affair – Some Thoughts
hopefullromantic
♀ Member
Member # 16652
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post FacePunched. I realized very early on that affairs are very much like addictions and that made it much easier for me to take my WS's actions less personally than I might have. In fact, almost all of his behaviors were easier to understand from that viewpoint. It also allowed me to see thru my own pain and understand his to a degree.


It's not really a fairy tale 'till the witch is deposed and a few dragons are slain

Posts: 1736 | Registered: Oct 2007
nomistakeaboutit
♂ Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FP,
I find this thread to be very interesting and provocative - in a good way. It's an interesting discussion. Thanks for initiating the conversation and for responding so fully to others' thoughts.

I do agree that A behavior mirrors addictive behavior in some ways, as I mentioned in a previous post. In fact, my IC, when hearing about some of the things my WS had done, said, "it almost sounds like addictive behavior." That's when I first started thinking about the parallels. I actually watched ALL episodes of The tv show INTERVENTION, which I found to be somewhat instructional, if you will (not to mention, incredibly frightening and moving).

Do you think this takes to a bit too far, though? ___>

I can tell you that I (like most people) have done plenty of things that I either didn't know or didn't care about the consequences to people I loved, but did it anyway because that was what I wanted to at the time. What I'm saying is that selfish impulsive decisions and the accompanying mindset is damn-near universal....and once you can recognize that you've been in that mindset (even in a minor sense), then we're just talking about scale in terms of the atrociousness of the transgression(s) you're dealing with. Maybe what separates people who have full-blown affairs from those that don't is how often they go to that well of justification.

This ^^ is like saying that everyone has committed a crime, and it's really just a matter of degree. But, there is a big difference between jaywalking and murder. I'm sure that in my I jaywalked or maybe got a speeding ticket, but I didn't commit premeditated murder (to overstate the issue just a bit...but not much.)


Me: BH 56.........Her: WW 43
DD: 6..........DS: 4
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 918 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Scubachick
♀ Member
Member # 39906
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They talked behind our backs about how awful we are. They made jokes at our expense to make AP laugh
Actually this did not happen in my case - the opposite happened. I have letters that prove it. My WW talked up my good points and the OM indicated he wished he could be more like that - I have it in writing.

My husband did make the OW laugh all the time and it makes me sick to read their messages where he's falling all over himself to make her laugh, it was never about me or our marriage though. I don't think my name came up much at all actually. He never brought her name up to me either.


Posts: 569 | Registered: Jul 2013
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

maybe got a speeding ticket, but I didn't commit premeditated murder
Since you brought up speeding (tickets), I'll use that. I think speeding is a good example of a time that almost everyone chooses to be selfish despite potentially catastrophic consequences to others. We all know in the back of our minds that speeding is illegal, and dangerous, and could kill someone at high speeds...but at some point we just say "Fuck it, I gotta get where I'm going.", and then step on the accelerator a little bit more. We ignore the consequences, because we want to do what we want to do at the moment....and we've probably all done it.

That's not a 1:1 comparison in terms of seriousness of the crime when compared to infidelity, unless you kill someone, in which case it's probably much worse.

I just want to say, too, that I don't think

painfulpast
is wrong. There is absolutely nothing with taking the approach of not trying to understand the wayward thinking mindset. Not only that, but it's probably safer, long-term, assuming that position, ESPECIALLY if your particular model of WS continues to act like an unremorseful tool. I'm not advocating that the BS has a responsibility to do what I spoke of originally....that's just me, and my path, and what I choose to do. No BS ever owes their WS empathy in regards to anything affair-related, just like no BS ever owes their WS reconciliation. Empathy, like R, is a gift you can choose to give or not.

It's kind of like trust after the affair...some of us BS need the whole VAR/timestamped photo/GPS setup in order to even begin to feel safe again. I didn't. I did the whole 'check the internet history and keylogger' thing for like a week after DDAY before I decided it was too much work. Different strokes, and all that jazz.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1943 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, January 23rd (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

maybe got a speeding ticket, but I didn't commit premeditated murder
Since you brought up speeding (tickets), I'll use that. I think speeding is a good example of a time that almost everyone chooses to be selfish despite potentially catastrophic consequences to others. We all know in the back of our minds that speeding is illegal, and dangerous, and could kill someone at high speeds...but at some point we just say "Fuck it, I gotta get where I'm going.", and then step on the accelerator a little bit more. We ignore the consequences, because we want to do what we want to do at the moment....and we've probably all done it.

That's not a 1:1 comparison in terms of seriousness of the crime when compared to infidelity, unless you kill someone, in which case it's probably much worse.

I just want to say, too, that I don't think painfulpast is wrong. There is absolutely nothing with taking the approach of not trying to understand the wayward thinking mindset. Not only that, but it's probably safer, long-term, assuming that position, ESPECIALLY if your particular model of WS continues to act like an unremorseful tool. I'm not advocating that the BS has a responsibility to do what I spoke of originally....that's just me, and my path, and what I choose to do. No BS ever owes their WS empathy in regards to anything affair-related, just like no BS ever owes their WS reconciliation. Empathy, like R, is a gift you can choose to give or not.

It's kind of like trust after the affair...some of us BS need the whole VAR/timestamped photo/GPS setup in order to even begin to feel safe again. I didn't. I did the whole 'check the internet history and keylogger' thing for like a week after DDAY before I decided it was too much work. Different strokes, and all that jazz.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:17 PM, January 23rd (Thursday)]


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1943 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
BeyondBreaking
♀ Member
Member # 38020
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I make a selfish/reckless decision, such as speeding, I do so knowing that there will be POTENTIAL consequences. I COULD get into an accident and cause harm to someone else. Or, I could have enough time to get a coffee before work and have absolutely zero negative consequences at all for my reckless/dangerous behavior. I have never killed someone or hurt someone as a result of my speeding, I have never gotten a speeding ticket, and I have never caused an accident. Of course it COULD happen, but it is gamble I am sometimes willing to take, I will admit selfishly.

If I was told, “Hey, beyondbreaking, if you speed this morning, you are definitely going to hurt someone,” I would not make the choice to speed. When you know the consequences to your actions, that’s not “taking a risk” or a gamble. It’s “if a then b” situation.

If I stab my husband in the leg with a steak knife, he will be injured. Period. Now, one could argue that the amount of injury can very- maybe I am stabbing him and only intend for him to have to get stiches. I didn’t intend on hitting a major artery, or chopping his legs off entirely. Regardless of the level in which I intended to hurt him- I KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that he is going to be physically injured and be in pain.

He KNEW that his choices would hurt me. It wasn’t a “maybe it will hurt beyondbreaking, maybe not.” He knew, without a shadow of a doubt that it would definitely hurt me. He had conversations with those who knew about this. Additionally, this wasn’t a one time mistake (one night stand) he made, and chose never to make again. He sat next to me and texted OW. He sent them pictures. He e-mailed and called them while I was sleeping in the next room. Each time he did it- every single text, call, e-mail…whatever. He knew it would hurt me (no gamble, 100% knew). And yet he continued. For months.

I’m all for having empathy, but not comparing apples to oranges. I’m not trying to pick you apart- certainly use whatever beliefs or ways of coping that work for you. I’m all for that.


I have been cheated on by 3 different men, and I have more DDays than anyone ever should. I am here, just trying to pickup the pieces.

At least the current man "only" cyber-cheated.

"Love means never having to say you're sorry."


Posts: 840 | Registered: Jan 2013
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a and living with a close family member that was a heroin addict, I think it's a completely fair comparison. I've lived through both so I think I'm qualified to have an opinion on this.

I agree. My little sister is a heroin addict. I was dealing with both (the aftermath of dday, and my sister ODing and going back to using) at the same time. I saw a lot of similarities in both FWH and Chasity's behavior. Both broke my heart.

FWH says he never stopped loving me. Hmmmmm...Im not so sure about that. He certainly didn't show his love for me during the time he was cheating on me. He was cold,distant,and often mean.

But this thread has caused me to think that maybe, in his own fucked up way, he did love me at the time. At the time, he was very unhealthy(mentally), so maybe he did love me. Or he didn't.

[This message edited by confused615 at 2:13 PM, January 24th (Friday)]


BS(me)41
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,9
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Happily Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7137 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm thinking that maybe what I empathize with is moreso the initial steps into the slippery slope....but not all the other fuckery that happens once a person gets alllllllll the way to the bottom.

From reading more of your posts, I think you're right. I've said many times I can see how these things start. They aren't premeditated. they didn't marry us waiting for the chance to cheat. I can completely empathize with how this starts.

It is every last action afterwards that is premeditated, intentional, and demonstrates ZERO love for the BS. For you to assume I haven't thought about how it could happen, etc. is very far from the truth. I have, completely. I can empathize with that.

I dispute the notion that there is love for the BS. How much love is there when they buy a burner phone just to keep sneaking around behind BSs back? How much love is there when they claim a 'work trip' and spend a week complaining about having to leave only to really be going on a fuckfest with AP?

And for those taking my exact wording, about talking behind the back of the BS, or making jokes, etc. I am generalizing. My WH never bought a burner phone, but I can put myself in the position of going to buy one to keep my secrets going. My H never went anywhere, but I can imagine doing that to keep my story going so I can go see AP. My point was that every last thing they do or say to the BS to be able to see, or talk to, or just keep secret the existence of AP is done so with malicious intent. They may not have wanted to hurt us, but they absolutely knew that it would hurt if we knew, and it would hurt a lot. Many become jealous and worry about being cheated on because they would NEVER want us doing what they were doing. They wouldn't want to be us, but they didn't mind putting us in that position.

There is nothing loving about a WS when they are in the midst of an A. There are too many lies, too many devious actions, too many sleazy moves.

So again, which family member would you continually do this to? Even if you didn't mean for it to start, which one would you just say 'fuck it' over and continually disrespect them and have zero concern for their well being?

Just because you didn't set out for something to happen doesn't mean you don't know it was wrong and that is should stop. You don't - because the person you're betraying, at that time, doesn't mean all that much to you. They certainly don't mean as much as your selfish desire to have a cheap fling, and if they don't even mean that, then I think saying that their feeling is 'love' is really a stretch.


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1695 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
wert
♂ Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The thought processes (or lack thereof) need to be dealt with, for sure…but aren’t we all a mix of our actions, both good and bad?

Nobody is all of either. I think it essential to heal as a BS to come to the conclusion you draw here. The must be a way we rationalize the WS behavior...the story we tell ourselves as to why they did what they did and stayed with us. Security, fear, low self-esteem, the need to validate the self as they see it, stagnation? Who knows.

I get the parallel that you are drawing with addictions - for some and to varying degrees.

I think the only question a BS needs to answer and understand (and IMO) its the WS's job to explain it to them - is why THEIR WS's cheated. How they made the choice to stay with us and and cheat? I strongly feel this is not a question the BS can answer nor is it one they should spend much of there time (as hard as that is) pondering. Simply, it ain't my job and I got better shit to do than deal with your crazy.

Great topic man...

take care...

[This message edited by wert at 3:50 PM, January 24th (Friday)]



Posts: 1414 | Registered: Jan 2012
refuz2bavictim
♀ Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But this thread has caused me to think that maybe, in his own fucked up way, he did love me at the time. At the time, he was very unhealthy(mentally), so maybe he did love me. Or he didn't.

This made me laugh! In a good way. It's the first time I have ever seen your screen name and your statements match! I rarely find you to be "confused" about much of anything. I view your posts as having well defined opinions.

At any rate, if you decide he did love you, but only as much as his fucked up way allowed...that would be just as ok as if you decided he didn't, but is learning how to have healthy "love" now. The proof is in the pudding.

ON the speeding ticket subject. The majority of time, the risk one takes in speeding is nothing more than a speeding ticket. The risk of an Affair is much greater. As a very risk averse person, I can attest to this. If I am going to speed, it is never over the amount that will cause me to face serious consequence. After having many discussion with friends/family in law enforcement, I am well aware of the risk. 5 over on arterial roads, and 10 on highways. I don't go outside of that range....ever.

The risk of entering an A, isn't a ticket, some points or maybe a driving course. It's not even the felony ticket for excessive speeding. The risk is the end of relationships. The end of family.
I have trouble with relating the two. The risk isn't nearly the same. But then again, I am the kind of person who bothers to calculate risk. Which is probably why I haven't found an A to be an option for me. If I want out...I'm taking the exit door, labeled divorce.

edited for error and typos

[This message edited by refuz2bavictim at 4:28 PM, January 24th (Friday)]


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
Topic Posts: 50
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3

Return to Forum: General Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.