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User Topic: Why are RA's bad?
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the BH on average is more affected by the PA while BWs are more affected by the EA.
My husband is not included in that average. I had 4 EAs. The last being a "technical" PA. Did the guy "bone" me? No. Luckily. But at the point I got to, it really didn't matter to QS. There was too much other damage. AP4 touching me would just have been the crap cherry on top. He got everything else he could out of me. Doesn't make QS's betrayal any less. So I guess according to statistics, QS isn't "as" betrayed as the other gents here eh?

suspend the moral assessment of the actors
As long as you suspend the moral assessment of your wife and her A too. After all, it's nothing personal right? She fucks around, you fuck around, it's all good. Forget those silly little things like emotions, hearts, vows.

if your BS now asked for permission up front to try out sex with another body, what would you say? Maybe they just need more 'information'.
Funny. They don't need more "information" at any other time in their relationship or marriage. Now all the sudden they feel the need to try out whatever floozy will give them attention and stroke their bruised egos. Among other things. Isn't that just another justification?

[This message edited by Aubrie at 2:29 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this feeling only applicable to one's wife during the courtship/marriage or does it also apply to her previous partners "ruining" her? In other words, does your partner need to be a virgin before you?

^ This.

Now all the sudden they feel the need to try out whatever floozy will give them attention and stroke their bruised egos. Among other things. Isn't that just another justification?

^ And this.

Everything both UnexpectedSong and Aubrie said.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 2:31 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She has tried to flirt with me for years, but I always told her to mind her own f**king business.

How strongly have you been rejecting her? And she keeps flirting with you in spite of your objections? Has she been interpreting your rejections as flirtatious also? That this is part of the tension, part of the dynamics between the two of you?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6074 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To say 'many BSs here' is merely stating a population proportion, which may be statistically significant yet not predictive of whether you or anyone would be in the proportion.

PLUS, this thread is bdell's and my comments were directed to him in extrapolation.

So to contradict you, silver, yes on this site a generalization can help if it helps bdell as this is his thread. He can say on his own, nah, doesn't apply to me.

I truly disagree that generalizations are not useful. If such a generalization carries 51% or more cases, that is a very important consideration.

The fact that the many books I have read, from NJF to ATA, etc., do point out the typical differences in responses to infidelity based on geneder is honest and helpful. And helps me understand myself.

This site in particular, is very hostile to even any small suggestion of gender differences and I find that intellectually dishonest actually.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 843 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OR, he will come away thinking, this vagina is no better than the one here at home. Heck, they are all the same. So getting this new vagina is nothing special as this was just some bodily function like using the bathroom and thus highly ordinary

Unless a man has only ever had sex with his wife, he already knows that one vagina is "no better" than another.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6074 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
JanaGreen
♀ Member
Member # 29341
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack, I'm not in a mental space where I can respond to you in a rational way due to some other stuff going on in my life so I'm going to bow out. But I think the Pain Olympics is the worst game that people play on here. It ALL sucks.


We're both in our 30s. One awesome 4-year-old daughter.

Posts: 6543 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Somewhere in the South
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 2:59 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack,

On this site we feel strongly about generalizations. So strongly it's one of the few guidelines we have. Please reference Guideline #8:

GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

Generalizations can really do more hurt than help.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36478 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Mrs Panda
♀ Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@MC jack

I am going to try to get past the fact that you just referred to women as vaginas, and ask a legit question.

You profile suggests that you are a BH and have not had a RA. Yet your devil's advocate logic purports that a MAN might be justified.

So, please explain, for Bdell's sake, why you did not had a RA.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this feeling only applicable to one's wife during the courtship/marriage or does it also apply to her previous partners "ruining" her? In other words, does your partner need to be a virgin before you?
So, I think that for a great many (not all...see what I did there?) BS, male and female alike, the 'ruined' feeling comes from the fact that during the affair the WS decided to either replace, or supplement, their access to the BS' squishy parts. I think that when many BS say "Their vagina/penis is no longer special to me", what they actually fear is that their own genitals must no longer be special to the WS, because they had the option to only have access to one person's junk, and instead chose to pursue multiple junks. The dynamic is not (or doesn't feel) the same, because with past partners there was at some point a decision to leave them in the past for reasons not related to the BS... whereas the affair sex was done within the bookends of 'beginning' and 'end' of the current relationship. I think it adds to the plan B feeling.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what they actually fear is that their own genitals must no longer be special to the WS, because they had the option to only have access to one person's junk, and instead chose to pursue multiple junks.

This. The feeling that our own junk must not be special - I resonate with that. And then, that's when a different healing journey begins: teaching yourself to feel special or "enough" without your partner's validation (or anyone else's). Very difficult.

So, I think that for a great many (not all...see what I did there?) BS, male and female alike


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
absolut
♀ Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell
From your description of this woman and your interactions with her you have been crossing boundaries with her for a long time.

I wonder if it has effected your marriage.

The fact that you think a swinger who flirts with a married man, openly offers up sex, and is disliked by other women is some sort of independent woman worth risking your marriage over or even sleeping with is ....interesting. I seriously doubt women are jealous of her. She has probably already slept with other guys at your job. The fact that you even have a dialogue with this woman while you are married is pretty shocking.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So yeah, Bdell...there are a couple reasons this is triggering WS, BS, and MH alike (so, you know, pretty much [almost] everyone). It seems pretty clear that you have some prior (as in, pre-affair) conversations and/or knowledge of this woman's sexual predilictions...which is an indication of poor boundaries at the very least..otherwise, how do you explain this:
She is a part-time adult model, and swinger, and views sex as a recreational activity.
That's a lot of inormation to be able to attribute it to 'office hearsay'.

So yeah, I'm with everyone else when they say that is not shocking that 'the wives' would be jealous or distrustful (perhaps reasonably so). Hint: It's not because of this:

This Lady is the attractive, independent woman that most company wives hate, or are jealous of. She lives her life by her own standards and is unapologetic about it.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 4:54 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This Lady is the attractive, independent woman that most company wives hate, or are jealous of. She lives her life by her own standards and is unapologetic about it.
I "hate" the whole "Oh, they don't like me 'cause they are jealous!" No, they hate "This Lady" because we see who she really is. An unethical "person" that thrives off of male external validation and ego kibbles from men, single and available or not. She is the farthest thing from confident and independent. She would shrivel up and die if she wasn't adored by male after male.

eta: My FWH fucked someone for many years. Yeah, that pretty much tears me up and I don't think any BH can say it tears him up more because he is a male. I don't know if I would feel the same if it was an EA without PA, but I know the PA aspect just about killed me. The mind movies were nothing less than torture and pure agony.

eta: to remove offensive name for so called "Lady". So sorry, thinking that I wasn't calling an actual OW a "bad word", but still shouldn't use that word in Reconciliation in describing some one.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:52 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
absolut
♀ Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Sister Milkshake.

Spare us the Samantha Sex & the City routine, she's a ho. Notice I don't say whore, who would have the common sense to get paid in cash not attention.

The wives who speak up & say they don't like her are the confident ones.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This Lady is the attractive, independent woman that most company wives hate, or are jealous of. She lives her life by her own standards and is unapologetic about it.

I "hate" the whole "Oh, they don't like me 'cause they are jealous!" No, they hate "This Lady" because we see who she really is. An unethical slut that thrives off of male external validation and ego kibbles from men, single and available or not. She is the farthest thing from confident and independent. She would shrivel up and die if she wasn't adored by male after male.
*raising hand* Hi. I'm an attractive, independent woman who's co-worker's wives hate and are jealous of. I'm the saleswoman that laid it on thick to make the sale with my male clients.

SMilkshakes description? Dead on the money. I know cause I was that girl in the description. She's dead inside. She feels worthless. She seeks out attention, brags about her awesomeness and sex life cause she craves attention. She dies without it. She pretends to be everything she's not, in an effort to fill the void. She's toxic. She's poison.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 5:32 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a general reminder. This is the Reconciliation forum, where the description is pretty clear about name calling. Don't do it.

If you find this thread to be too triggery, please step back.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36478 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Easy folks, just to clarify. I forget sometimes we are not in a coffee shop pontificating. I am not making a case for an RA. I am just describing the thought 'logic' (circular or otherwise) associated with and trying to rationalize the meaning behind being a cuckhold.

With regard to terminology:

I am going to try to get past the fact that you just referred to women as vaginas

^^^I used the term intentionally as a device to specifically refer to the physical acts and the body itself dissociated with the person. People sometimes have sex and barely know each others' names.

Is this feeling only applicable to one's wife during the courtship/marriage or does it also apply to her previous partners "ruining" her? In other words, does your partner need to be a virgin before you?

^^^What FP said about this above. No virgin requirement as the bride wore white.
Unless a man has only ever had sex with his wife, he already knows that one vagina is "no better" than another.
^^^Well after 20+ years, it is hard to remember possibly...
So I guess according to statistics, QS isn't "as" betrayed as the other gents here eh?
^^^Again possibly...ask him...how many JFO posts (heck even one this week) are about catching the texting etc. and being hurt, but so *glad* that the affair was caught in time before going to a 'full-blown' PA...a great quote from a BW was that one takes 'precious little comfort' from these distinctions yet hangs onto them.
You profile suggests that you are a BH and have not had a RA. Yet your devil's advocate logic purports that a MAN might be justified...So, please explain, for Bdell's sake, why you did not had a RA.
^^^Good question. First of all, I want to repeat that the term 'revenge' may be misapplied if the A is not intended to hurt the WS. I have NOT cheated on my WW nor do I intend to. The logic of sorts is not about justification. That implies a cognitive reasoning pre and post. Perhaps it should be viewed as an...impulse (?)...that a MAN might be feeling.

...teaching yourself to feel special or "enough" without your partner's validation (or anyone else's). Very difficult.
^^^That is the healing path we are all on.

if your BS now asked for permission up front to try out sex with another body, what would you say
^^^Aubrie, you dodged the question. You rightfully noted above the hypocrisy problem.

I was hoping to finish this post before SisterMilshake showed up...oh well...

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 5:48 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 843 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have time to read all 6 pages right now, so if this ground has already been tread, my apologies.

Were you a cheater before your wife stepped out on you? Did you have a wayward mentality before she cheated on you? If not, then I'm wondering why you would allow your wife and her AP turn you into something you're not. Everyone (I think) briefly considers a RA after D Day, if for no other reason than a desire to make their WS feel some of the pain we feel.

Screw that. I'm not a cheater. Never have been, never will be. My wife and her sleaze of an AP may have conspired to cause me great pain, but they do not have the power to make me less than I am.

Just my two cents. Sorry you are going through this.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1327 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 6:45 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PM for you MC_Jack


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36478 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I guess according to statistics, QS isn't "as" betrayed as the other gents here eh?

^^^Again possibly...ask him...how many JFO posts (heck even one this week) are about catching the texting etc. and being hurt, but so *glad* that the affair was caught in time before going to a 'full-blown' PA...a great quote from a BW was that one takes 'precious little comfort' from these distinctions yet hangs onto them.

You want the long or short version Dude? Cause really, it would involve blood and guts and I'm just not in the mood. But by your comments and belief, he's not "as betrayed". So does that make me only a little wayward? Guess we can call ourselves healed, make some tea and crumpets, and go on our merry little way.

QS sees himself as betrayed. He sees my last A as a technical PA. His pain is his pain. Doesn't matter if I stabbed him with a fork or butcher knife. He is hurt. He does not compare his betrayal to others here. He doesn't compare my As to a "what if". I cheated. I hurt him. Period. There is no "Well geez, thank Gawd you didn't fuck him!" Still doesn't make up for the selfies, the porn, the emails, chat logs, webcams. Lets be honest here, the chances of EA going PA are huge. Happens all the time. I stabbed him with a fork, but the butcher knife was in my other hand, hidden behind my back.

Never mind his FOO and emotional abandonment that layeres upon, and ties in with the betrayal. So my EAs, were really less than trivial. They really were "as bad" as physically jumping on some dude's gear. His pain is his, not yours or other guys here. I don't diminish his experience. Neither does he.

I said I wouldn't tolorate QS cheating. You said I dodged a question. Please clarify. Are you wanting my reasons for my "hypocrisy"?


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6052 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
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