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User Topic: Why are RA's bad?
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happens all the time. I stabbed him with a fork, but the butcher knife was in my other hand, hidden behind my back.

^^^i agree. and hence as I quoted a poster above, 'precious little comfort' to be taken...but it is often taken nonetheless.
Are you wanting my reasons for my "hypocrisy"?

^^^Sure, since you are posting.

eta- word choice so as someone would not think it was a sarcastic comment

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 7:31 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 843 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
solus sto
♀ Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know Jana, most every authoritative book, from NJF to ATA, observes that the BH on average is more affected by the PA while BWs are more affected by the EA.
And I'd posit that the real authorities on the topic--the ...what? THOUSANDS of BWs on this site who feel differently--would conclude that this is utter bullshit.

The generalizations are really irritating.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 52, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 8344 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I already said why I wouldn't R on page 3.

What one person can work thru and forgive, another cannot. What one person is willing to swallow, another will not.

I was cheated on numerous times in a previous relationship. Yeah he was "just" a boyfriend. He banged every girl in the county. I'm sure you'll tell me it wasn't a serious relationship, I was young, blah-freaking-blah. Doesn't mean it didn't hurt. Now put that on a husband level? Hell no.

That's the short version. For me it's a dealbreaker. Period.

Some people call it hypocrisy. I call it my boundaries.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6071 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Kyrie
♀ Member
Member # 41825
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mods - Why on earth is this thread happening in the Reconciliation Forum? Seven pages about revenge affairs? In Reconciliation? Seriously?


Me: BW, 47
WH, 48
Married 24 years, 2 teenagers
2 year/8 month PA with coworker
DDay#1 01.20.12 - found out when diagnosed with STD
Dday#2 04.04.14 - found out the PA lasted over twice as long as he originally disclosed.
Separated for 6 wks. T

Posts: 191 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: southeast USA
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kyrie,

This is a valid subject that many people in R have or do struggle with. As the OP is wanting to R, no guidelines are being broken.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 36510 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...most every authoritative book, from NJF to ATA, observes that the BH on average is more affected by the PA while BWs are more affected by the EA.
Except in my case. It was reading my xww "I love you" to OM that crossing a much bigger line to me.

First of all, I don't think bdell is advocating for a revenge affair. That of course implies a revenge motive which is nowhere to be found in his posts.

I would answer that by referring to the original reason for the thread and its title. It was to answer the question "Why are RA's bad?" They are bad because affairs are bad. Why would an A not be bad?


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3668 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
RealityStinks
♂ Member
Member # 41457
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell -
I'm going to answer your original question.

Because a RA would make you (general sense) one evil individual. To KNOW the pain that you went through, and then to intentionally inflict that pain on your spouse is cruel. IMO, it's worse than the original A.


Posts: 414 | Registered: Nov 2013
avicarswife
♀ Member
Member # 35799
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, finding my WH had decided to not have one PA but two and and EA has been one of the most painful and truly gutting experiences of my life.

I am aware that no one experiences pain and betrayal the same be they male or female, whether the affair is PA, EA, LTA or a ONS. It isn't a pissing competition - we are different. Our pain is different, all I do know is that the betrayal by the one who I loved and trusted above anyone, who I was loyal too and who I would have given my life for has destroyed part of me at my core. This betrayal has struck at my heart, my ego, my health and my spirit.

I cannot imagine inflicting this kind of pain on anyone deliberately. I sure don't think an RA would. In some ways it would be worse. It would be a calculated decision on my part to inflict pain and suffering at the deepest level on someone I vowed to love, be faithful too and to honour.

I guess knowing there was someone out there who found me attractive and wanted me would really only impact my ego. It would perhaps soothe my ego, but it would destroy my soul in the process. I don't ever want to find I am capable of destroying another person for no other reason than to get revenge and soothe my ego.

[This message edited by avicarswife at 8:22 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]


BS: 47 (me)
WH: 51
Married 26 yrs, 3 kids (16-24)
D-Days 2012: 23 - 24 May + TT
D-Day 2013: 12 Apr OW#3
mOW #1 EA yrs PA Feb 2009-end 2011
mOW #2 EA months PA 4 months 2010
OW #3 PA single time 2010
Status: Maybe 'R'

Posts: 711 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: "down-under"
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What avicarswife said about soothing an ego.

So, a drunk driver kills my son and I feel pretty good about doing the same thing to him. Yeah, the problem resides in me.
This is YOUR issue OP, fix it so that it reflects YOUR values, not your wife's


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Slide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4536 | Registered: Dec 2010
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, first let me clarify my interaction with the Lady from work. She has flirted with me, yes, and has let it be known that she is available, but not on any kind of constant or regular basis. To be fair, probably not more than some of the other men and even some of the women, in the department. We have never ever sat down and discussed my marriage, her relationships, or anything else of a serious nature, for that matter. It is a casual flirtation, like her attitude towards sex. We have worked in the same Department, for 10 or 12 years. An example of our interaction: She once (6 or 7 years ago) told another female employee that I was the only man in the department that she really wanted. I answered that it was because I was the only man in the department that never took her seriously. Since then, she rarely flirts with me, and only did so now because she somehow got wind of my situation. I have never, in thought, word , or deed, given her any encouragement of any kind. I have refused her in no uncertain terms, yes, but you must remember that I still have to work with her.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As to the point of this thread, I am only asking questions, and never thought it would be so much of a trigger to some of the various posters. I apologize if I have had any negative effect on anyone. Such is not my intention. This whole thread is based on my troubling situation regarding sex with my wife. If I could somehow enjoy sex with her , without the "mind movies" this subject would never have come up.
It is one of the most problematic parts of reconciliation I am facing. My wife is ecstatic when we have sex, as she views it as a part of the re affirming of bonds, and that it gives her another opportunity to prove her love and desire for me. For me, it is a physical need that I am ashamed that I have. Do I think she is "ruined", by the affair, to a certain degree , yes I do. I do not want to feel this way. And when I remember how sex was before, it makes me very sad and very angry. That is when I start to think about the unfairness of it all and why should I remain faithful to her when she didn't to me. Sex is a necessary part of a marriage, but in my case , it has also become a trigger, of itself. My heart is on the ground, and I cannot see a positive future. I do not want sex with another woman, whether it is a stranger or the stranger that my wife has become. I want sex with the wife that I married.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, all vaginas are pretty much the same. It is the person attached to it that has changed.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Many of you that have argued against RA's , will remark about my Wedding Vows. I made my Vows to the loyal, loving woman I married. Where is that woman, now?

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
absolut
♀ Member
Member # 37933
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, January 25th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That makes a lot of sense. I have felt the same way towards a man.

Best wishes whatever you decide to do with your wife. I can't give a lot of advice on reconciling, if any. I'm divorced.


Posts: 421 | Registered: Dec 2012
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I made my Vows to the loyal, loving woman I married.
You're quite right. You made those vows. It is your choice to keep them. Your choice. If you truly no longer consider yourself bound by those vows because of her betrayal then you should D.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3668 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 12:38 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An example of our interaction: She once (6 or 7 years ago) told another female employee that I was the only man in the department that she really wanted. I answered that it was because I was the only man in the department that never took her seriously. Since then, she rarely flirts with me,

It sounds like you were able to stick up for your boundaries 6 or 7 years ago and that's a good thing.

and only did so now because she somehow got wind of my situation.

What have the interactions been like lately? What did she say that you became aware of her willingness to have an affair with you, and how did you respond? With the way she acts, is it plausible that she's done things with other coworkers, and this is why their wives are angry?

This whole thread is based on my troubling situation regarding sex with my wife. If I could somehow enjoy sex with her , without the "mind movies" this subject would never have come up.

This is the real issue, and it seems like you know a RA wouldn't make it better. So let's acknowledge THIS pain: sex with your wife hurts you right now. It reminds you of what you've lost. And that is totally normal and understandable.

My heart is on the ground, and I cannot see a positive future. I do not want sex with another woman, whether it is a stranger or the stranger that my wife has become. I want sex with the wife that I married.

This is the heart of your pain. How can you mourn this? How can you process your grief? And how can you make your wife aware of your suffering and ask her for support?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
"Not my monkeys. Not my circus." ~Polish proverb (<~~~ as a codependent person, this comes in handy sometimes!)

Posts: 3882 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
MrsDoubtfire
♀ Member
Member # 24786
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And when I remember how sex was before, it makes me very sad and very angry. That is when I start to think about the unfairness of it all and why should I remain faithful to her when she didn't to me. Sex is a necessary part of a marriage, but in my case , it has also become a trigger, of itself. My heart is on the ground, and I cannot see a positive future. I do not want sex with another woman, whether it is a stranger or the stranger that my wife has become. I want sex with the wife that I married.

Now THIS ^^^^^ I can relate to!

But- I don't think you really want to have sex with the woman you M as THAT woman was capable of having sex with someone else.

If your WW is remorseful and full of guilt and prepared to walk over hot coals (several times over for years if that is what it takes)to repair the evil that she did to you then she cannot ever be the wife that you M. She will be different if she gets IC and will be a wife who will NEVER think an A (or having sex with someone else) other than you is appropriate!

Surely that kind of wife is the one that you really want?

You are getting a lot of 'triggery' responses as there are some of us who think that having sex with somebody else outside of your spouse is wrong- regardless of whether the spouse is aware or otherwise... there are some on here who's spouse says they can't leave the OP alone and is sleeping with the AP still.... I agree with the analogies above that it's like getting drunk and killing someone in the drunk driver's family.

You admit your heart is on the floor but by sleeping with another you are then transferring the same pain onto your wife.

I cannot speak for mad hatters but I have seen some on here where the RA (or however you wish to phrase it) is the very thing that ends the M as the WS turned BS cannot accept the fact they have been cheated on.

All food for thought but I urge you to not even keep this thought in your head if you are trying to R. Not because you aren't allowed to have a 'get out' if you need one initially but because entertaining the (honest) possibility that you may or may not sleep with a colleague is how WS's thinking start down the slippery slope.

I am speaking as someone who also could not get with the hysterical bonding as I couldn't bear FWH to touch me knowing he'd had sex with a co-worker!

It took a long time for that issue to resolve and sometimes you need professional help.

I am also curious as to how you would then be placed on here... would you be a WS/ BS or a mad hatter or would you have to be viewed as a non remourseful WS as you went ahead after we all urged you not to?

And yes- I have re-read this thread and I hear what you are saying and that you are asking whether having sex with someone else with the full knowledge of your W is something that is feasible.

I don't have the answer to that but I will say this- your WW isn't the first who offered up this option to their BS as a way of either evening the score or to get the punishment they believe they deserve etc.

I hope those WS's who have done so can offer some insights for you or that those BS's who were offered this 'payback' will post.

I think I do need to take a step back from your post now though, sorry.


BS(Me) FWH(Him) DDay 05.09
A went underground. True R 02.10
I won't let another woman reap the benefit of enjoying the man my H has now become†

Posts: 1563 | Registered: Jul 2009
Bdell
Member
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mrs. Doubtfire, the only thing keeping me in reconciliation mode, is the hope that my wife will become a BETTER woman than she was before the affair. After all, it was the pre-affair wife who allowed it to happen, and the wife I have NOW is a cheater. So if I'm going to stay with her she will have to improve herself to the point that I want to be married to her again, and want to have sex with her again. Getting our marriage back to pre-affair conditions isn't acceptable, even if it were possible. An analogy would be that if she were a car, she would have to be better in every way , than a new one. Is it possible? Are we willing to expend the time and effort to make it happen? I can't say, for I do not know. I do know that she is working hard and trying her best. When we have sex, I KNOW she is enjoying it, (she O's very easily) and when I am nice to her she blooms with pleasure. I do my best to keep from expressing my anger and disgust, in hopes that I can see a glimmer of a better future. But depression is usually only a trigger away.

[This message edited by Bdell at 11:07 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]


Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
wildbananas
♀ Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I skimmed through this but one thing jumped out at me... you said if you decided to do this, you'd be up front with your FWW, is that correct?

xh was often up front about who he was "seeing." Meaning he told me he was seeing so-and-so whether I liked it or not, end trans... and in his mind, him doing it that way somehow gave him a clear conscious to go fuck who he wanted. I'm really glad he felt okay about it. Didn't hurt me or his crying children any less but hey, as long as he was good. (And yes, all but one of his OW were coworkers.)

Dude. Don't be that guy. Please. If it's a dealbreaker (totally okay) and you want out, do both of you a favor and go.


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15362 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok. Your wife is not ruined. She isn't. She is still the same woman you married. She did bad things. She did. You doing those same things will only make you feel worse.

Her A only defines the marriage if you let it. It was hard for me to not let one night ruin my whole marriage. I felt like all 12 years that I have known my Fwh was a lie. One big fat lie. It wasn't. If you want to R, you have to quit looking at the situation the way you are right now. Focus on her actions NOW. Is she still behaving like a wayward? Or is she acting like "the woman you married"?

Find a way to get past the mind movies. For me, I pictured the prostitute (whose face is a mystery to me) as the derpy hiena from the lion king. Or better, I changed the channel. I pictured some of my favorite escapades my husband and I have had over the years. When that doesn't work, I turn on the light and look at him. I focus on the NOW. What's happening NOW.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2241 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
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