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User Topic: Why are RA's bad?
♂ Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Oh, it is tempting when they make it clear they are willing. And when your wife screws another man, it really torpedoes your sense of manhood. YOU were faithful, YOU tried to meet her needs, YOU engaged in the marriage, YOU supported your family and what did it get you - some asshole fucking your all too willing wife. Believe me, I understand the natural reaction is to feel that something is wrong with you and some instant female attention from someone other than your WW feel DAMNED good.

But an RA won't really help. Speaking as a guy who pretty much used a young lady to make me feel better (emotionally) after I moved out and filed, I can tell you I still feel like crap for leading her on. Even if that is not the case for you, you will still feel like an ass for sacrificing your core values for attention.

Strength to you brother. Nothing, NOTHING is fair about your wife pursuing another man. But engaging in an affair of your own will not even the score. It will only put you further in hell.

Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 901 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
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Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because after I thought about it, I realized it would not solve the under lying problem. It would not help my M, it would not help my W and it would not help me.

I am a fan of revenge general. From an ethical stand point I have no problems with it. For me it is cathartic and healthy.

I didn't love my W after her A. I stopped the minute I found out. IMO, I considered myself D at that point. Emotionally I had left her. IMO, who wouldn't?

Why did I not have an RA? Because I did not want to be like them. I want to be like me. I don't do that. Other people's actions should not determine your actions. Pave your our path - whatever that is.

take care...

Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm gonna dissagre a bit with the other posters here.

First I Think a RA is wrong to do. However, I Think for some a free pass to "even" up the score can be a good thing. It's not for everybody, maby not for most, but for some definately. Doing it behind your WW back though would add a huge amount of trouble.

I know of many who are glad they did. It helped in several ways. Self esteem, getting the WS to understand some part of the hurt/pain etc that the BS goes through. For some it made it possible for them to R. The idea that the WS gets to have fun but you don't can, fore some be very painfull and difficult to get over if at all.

I agree that it would not make things even in all respects but in some it would.

I know of one BS that did the following:
He had his WW agree to give him a few free passes.
Some time later he told his W that he was gonna use one of his free passes that night and would be back the next day. He did not, never planed to do that but stayed with a friend instead. The next day he had a discussion with his W how she felt about it, then was also when he told her he didn't do it. For them it realy helped.

If I was you I would demand as many free passes as times your wife had sex with the OP and see how she reacts. Demanding them doesn't mean that you will use them. And if you ever decide to use them Think long and hard about it first. How will you feel doing that? How will it affect you? How will it affect your M?

Ohh and Another very important thing:
Don't mess with any married people and make sure that the person you have sex with is fully aware thát it is what it is. Basically don't hurt the partner. Only go ahead if all are OK with a casual sex a few times.

[This message edited by TOMTEFAR at 9:27 AM, January 24th (Friday)]

Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2013
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Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Other people's actions should not determine your actions

truer words never spoken, And I'm saying this as a former WW - no excuses.

his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”

Posts: 5286 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
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Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These posts got me thinking of my mindset post A. For a long while I really considered myself a free agent. I did not act on anything, nor intended to, however I emotionally left my W and took a good look at myself and the world around me to see what it would be like to be single.

I would recommend that for every BS who is interested in healing themselves first and not the M as I was. It is dangerous and enlightening.

take care...

Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell, let me ask you a question. Ok, more than one.

Why do you think a RA is good?

What do you think it will accomplish?

Is it to hurt your wife?

Is it to make you feel attractive and desired?

How much do you value yourself as a human being?

Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

Posts: 6317 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
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Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Easy - how much respect do you have for someone that cheats? Is that what you want for yourself?

How many marriages or relationships do you know where the parties involved both went out and did such things. What do you think of those relationships? Is that what you want for your marriage?

***I am speaking of people currently engaged in such behaviors, not of people that are healing, or marriages in R***

The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
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Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

how much respect do you have for someone that cheats? Is that what you want for yourself?

I in no way condone RA's. That said I draw distinction between lying and cheating behind someones back and getting approval first. The distinction being choice and knowledge.

For the record both are bad ideas in concept and in action.

take care...

Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The distinction being choice and knowledge.

That of course destroying the concept of a revenge affair as an "evening" factor. If we were to really get even, we would need to be sneaky, develop an emotional bond, lie, gaslight, spend marital assets, put our partner's health at risk, and a host of other fun options.

Revenge affairs are wrong because affairs are wrong. It doesn't matter what kind of qualifier you put in front of it.

Him WH
2 ddays in '07
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6549 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are a LOT of really good answers here, but I just want to add my two cents, if I may?

It doesn't help, and I won't say anything about the marriage. The marriage got torpedoed the moment your SO decided it didn't matter to them anymore. So, I axe the idea of marriage (since marriage always takes two, and since the WS checked out, it's not a marriage anymore. It's an arrangement).

An RA doesn't help YOU: it derails you and takes you away from yourself. You get lost because the pain of betrayal and the life-altering effects it has on you will still be there once you come down from the clouds. Life will still be happening and you will be wasting it. I wouldn't call my A an RA (that is NOT to minimize it; just what it is: an Affair, plain and simple) because something was already broken inside of me that made that okay, that made it an acceptable option for ME to take. It shouldn't have been an option because I know what this crap does to people (not just me, but to the people around me).

I allowed my WH's choices to alter ME, the core of ME, and I made a choice to do something that I knew was wrong. I stopped caring about myself and what was best for me, and decided to disappear into a fantasy bubble where everything was rainbows. And when I emerged (and please understand *I* made the choice to end it because it wasn't like *ME* to do something that horrific to a person or their lives), I realized that I had dropped a huge bomb on myself.

You don't want to do that; you don't want to allow the insidious broken nature of affairs, infidelity or this shit-storm to alter you anymore than it has; you do not want to become more broken than this has already made you.

Him (31): Taurus517 (17 mon EA/PA); others
Me (27): 3mo EA/PA (kissed once)
One too many D-days
(Full story: see profile)

Posts: 230 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Atlanta, GA
♀ Member
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Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Look - calling something a 'revenge' affair doesn't make it something good. In the end, you are making a conscious choice to go outside your marriage vows. Trying to justify it is, IMHO, the same as a WS justifying their A because of problems in the marriage. The rules have to work both ways - you and the state of your marriage did not drive her to have an A, therefore you can not insist that she drove you to an RA.

if you want to sleep with someone while you are married, get it out on the table and have an open marriage. If you want to justify and blame shift your extramarital activities, you will be a WS -regardless of the "RA" label.

Eta: I don't want you to think I am unsympathetic. I proposed an RA to the AP's BH shortly after DDay. He declined. I feel like a total ass when I think of that moment, even though I was out of my mind with agony (see, I blame shift too!). But I made the choice to put it out there, and now I have to live with my action.

[This message edited by Watching2bSure at 12:09 PM, January 24th (Friday)]

Me (BW): 40's, WH: 40's
M: 14 yrs, 2 kids (teens)
DDay: 1st "official" DDay in 2011 (EA only, or so I thought) 2nd DDay in early 2012 (PA same OW), TT for months, 3rd DDay 6 months later (multiple affairs revealed)

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jan 2013
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've gotten excellent advice here. Everything I'd want to say and more. There's a formula to help people who want a technical response:

Affair = Bad

Revenge = Bad

Revenge Affair = Bad²

It's science.

Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17864 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
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Member # 39000
Cool  Posted: 12:17 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am SO changing my username to Bad².

My username means that I was *owed* an A. Nevermind the facts, I twisted them to my suit my own ends.

What I thought was an RA was anything but.

Cheating is cheating. Nothing justifies infidelity. Not even being cheated on.

fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1238 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
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Member # 41736
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I so wish there were a like button here, I would press it for Jrazz's Bad2! Love the logic there

BS- Me
WH - very brief EA with co-worker (phone and texting, mostly)
Married 22 years, together 24 years
DDay-- the worst day of my life 11/11/13
Working on R

Posts: 30 | Registered: Dec 2013
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Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having an RA would never hurt my H the way his A hurt me, precisely because he would have expected me to do it. He said to me as part of his confession, 'If you want to have a revenge affair, I will understand'. What devastated me about his A was that I never, ever imagined he would do it. I was as blind-sided as a person could be. I was putting everything into our marriage and I thought we were happy.

To reach an equivalent level of pain, I would have to wait another 18 years, let him pour all of himself into rebuilding this marriage, let him believe that we were in it together fully, let our marriage grow to the level of trust and intimacy that I once believed that we shared, and THEN have an affair. Why would I do that?

Of course I feel like getting some validation. Of course I feel like causing him pain sometimes. Of course I wish to God he could have the faintest idea what this is that I am feeling. But what does that have to do with having sex with another person? All those feelings do for me is help me to understand that my husband's affair was never, ever about sex or love or the fabulousness of the other woman.

He tried to fix something broken inside of him by having an affair. It didn't work. At all. Why would I try to fix what he broke in me, by doing the same stupid thing? There's no magic that happens in your soul when you have sex with someone to fulfill a selfish, self-serving need. It doesn't bring healing or validation or better self-esteem.

I'm sorry you were betrayed. You did not deserve it.

Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that the BIG consequence to an RA that hardly gets any time in the forethought bucket is what it does to the BS in terms of self esteem.

If you just dip a toe in the Wayward Forum you see tears and heartache just like anywhere else. Sure, they were the transgressor in this case, but I wouldn't wish that level of self loathing and shame on anyone. Do you think they thought about that consequence to their affair beforehand? Of course not. They were just going after the cookie and are now paying the price, as is their BS.

It's the same damn cookie here. It looks delicious, it's got sprinkles, but it is going to make you sick just the same.

Oh, and when in the world has "He/She did it first" ever been a viable excuse when arguing morality?? Protecting yourself is one thing. Hurting someone else because they hurt you first is not excusable no matter how you spin it.

Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17864 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If people have RA to even the score that means the marriage has to have some sort of sick power dynamic working. How healthy is that?

his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”

Posts: 5286 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
♂ Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bdell - I have not read the other responses as I have seen the RA create a lot of intense emotions on both sides of the fence here before. I know you are hurting and I want to help you deal with that.

That being said, I am not going to tell you what to do, but I can tell you what you are pondering is pretty normal thought process a lot of BHs go through. Myself included.

The unfairness gets to you. This is unfair in a society that pushes "fairness" to a fault. (e.g.- See everybody gets a trophy athletics) What our W did, for whatever reason, was cruel, unfair and hurt you in places you did know you had.

One of the usual ways this plays out in your head is that if you got to experience the "fun side," of this crap (as you already are on the bad end). It is part curiosity, part revenge and part desperate attempt to feel better. I get it, I have been there myself. You just want this agony to stop and you start looking at any and all things. Alcohol, hobbies, RAs, whatever.

I understand how hypocritical it is for a WS to ask that their BS be faithful, "now." After all, had we known that we were living in a one sided open M we may have decided to pursue other partners too. We never considered it before and Dday has made that possibility real for us. I mean our WWs risked a lot to pursue these relationships, there had to something they got out of it, right ? Hindsight is 20/20 and looking at something with the full consequences in place sometimes hides the short term benefits the WS received from it. Are the longer term consequences to our WW, US, the M worse than any benefit ? Of course they are. My point is this RA rolling around in your head could be a step toward empathizing or understand the why for your W. You can try, but you'd be the first BH to get that one figured out.

Your Ws actions do not reflect on you. They reflect on her. She has certainly screwed up your life and you will never be the same, but at some point you will realize that most of the "fault," lies outside of you and you bear no responsibility for your W's choices. BTW Being "changed" does not necessarily mean worse, it just means diffeent. It can also mean being better, wiser, stronger and less naive (not calling you that just making a point).

You have to think about the man you are and what you can live with. This could feel great now, but who knows how you will feel about it later on. After all you can't go back and change the past.

I know you will think on it before leaping, just think out all the angles. Ask your W about how she felt and feels about it then and now.

At the end of the day this is really about trying fill a need you have and there maybe alternatives that could have fewer side effects in the long run.

Sometimes you have to think on the thought for awhile to really understand what is behind it. For example you may think this is way to help your W understand how you feel. There are easier ways to do it. Telling her and showing her how much this has hurt you transfers the ownership back to her. She didn't mess up your life, she messed up her life. You have the same choices you always have had and can lead whatever life you want to live.

Anyway, I am not saying you should or shouldn't. Just think on it for awhile. I would suspect you aren't sure of the answer either and this will have consequences no matter what direction you take. All choices do.

PM me if you want to.

Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.

Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
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Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why are RA's bad?

Why is it common wisdom that having revenge sex is a bad thing?

I might be splitting hairs here based on my own experiences but I don't think the question in your title is exactly the same as the question you ask in the body of your post. For me an affair is something that not only might involve sex but also requires lying and deception.

It is complicated by my situation evolved to an open marriage. I can tell you that it has helped with me in dealing with my WW LTA that happened before we had an open marriage. I did not get mind movies after DDay, the sex aspect of the LTA has not been an issue for me. For me it allowed me to more clearly focus on the lying and deception. I think another part that it helped in my healing is that it gave me strenth in myself to deal with it all - finding out you WS cheated on your can be a crushing blow but I think that I having options helped me regain my strength quickly.

My situation is unique and I don't necessarily recommend the direction that I have taken to other BS - it has worked for me though. Now if you are going to lie and decieve your WS and have your own affair you are only asking for more hurt. A revenge affair will only complicate matters increadibly, best to stand on the high ground when dealing with all of this.

BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
Member # 41673
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all.
Let me explain my mindset, if I can. In the past, whenever I had the opportunity to cheat, (and there have been quite a few) I would always think it was a ridiculous idea. After all, I was married to a wonderful woman, who was totally devoted to me, right? So why would I? But since D day, I have been thinking a lot about what I want from life and whether I want to expend the years of time and effort to repair my M or D and try again. Considering that my wife has already said that if I had sex with someone else, it wouldn't change her determination to prove her love and devotion to me. Also considering that the Lady in question, is something of a "free spirit" and wouldn't make demands on me, I'm thinking why would it be so bad? More like a practice run, than an affair.

Posts: 240 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Indiana
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