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User Topic: Lie to Me
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone watched this show? I started watching it on Netflix and I noticed a lot of techniques they use in the show are things I have read about when it comes to detecting a lie. Like micro-expressions. So I attempted to use what I learned from two episodes to re-question WS. I noticed he scowls a lot when he talks. You know the raised upper lip. As well as shaking his head no when he says yes or yes when he says no. I asked him straight up if he ever had sex with OW1. He calmly said "No, nothing physical ever happened with her other than a kiss." *scowl* I asked if he had sex with the COW he went on a trip with. I got the same calm demeanor with a scowl. "No, nothing ever happened with her." I asked if he had sex with COW2 and that time he looked more shocked and the pitch of his voice raised, "No! Definitely not!!!" minus the scowl. Almost like he was disgusted I would even suggest it! I got the sense he was being deceitful, I just don't know what he was being deceitful about! He tends to scowl a lot when he talks. Anyone ever look into micro-expressions? How reliable is it really?

ETA: I realized this expression is disgust but what does that mean? Is he disgusted I brought it up? Or disgusted by what he has done? Or something else?

[This message edited by cl131716 at 7:15 AM, January 24th (Friday)]


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A lot of the lie detections on the show are spot on. Some... A little embellished. My XH lied a lot... But being around him, ans seeing him lie to other people, (things i knew were lies) and watching his mannerisms... After a while I could tell when he was lying - basically... Because his mouth was moving . Lol. My mother also helped train me on lie detection. (Also a big liar). I know when my fWH is lying, too. The "tells" are not universal, like they imply on the show... It's individual. My fWH body language is different than XH's body language, so his "tells" are different.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interesting steadfast.

Wh's are hard to discern. I guess the "scowl" isn't really a micro-expression because nearly the whole time we are talking about him cheating he will have a look of disgust on his face. Lip raised, teeth showing, and nose wrinkled.

I should watch him next time I know he is lying about something. I haven't really figured out his baseline. I guess I must keep watching.

This is all very interesting! I want to study up on it as much as I can so I can become a human lie detector.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
freelancer
♀ Member
Member # 36529
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I watched and loved this show before I had a DD. I may have to re watch it and take notes this time.


Me: BS, 34
Him: WH, 34
2 beautiful babies, 6 and 3, HB baby due 06/2014
DD1: 7/1/2012
OW#1: EA/PA for 14 months
OW#2: PA for 1.5 months
DD2: 9/17/2013 Back at it with OW#1 for 4 weeks.

Posts: 238 | Registered: Aug 2012
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are whole books on it, too.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2086 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
brokengrandma52
♀ Member
Member # 31705
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not seen the show....will have to watch for it. I do have a little experience with being lied to!! I believe I may have been the most gullible woman ever!!! Will be looking for some tips!


Me BS beautiful wonderful woman!!
Him FWS ex jackass
We are recovered.....almost!
Dday July 2010
Married 49 years...50 years Aug 2013

Posts: 115 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Fl part of the year
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are whole books on it, too.

And now I know what I will be looking into on my next trip to the library.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sk him something not A related, something he didn't do but say he did. Maybe you can see his face when he's defending himself with the truth. For instance...why did you leave the gate open again, the dog got out and was lost for an hour. See what kind of pitch he hits when he says he didn't do it.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5048 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The best work may be by Sylvan Tomkins who did the ground-breaking work on affect theory. His work is being carried on by the Tomkins Institute - www.tomkins.org. I'd start there.

Some Tomkins folks used to follow and discuss 'Lie to Me' closely with active discussion of their listserv.

I have no connection with the Tomkins Institute. I just think they're onto something very insightful.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10110 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Softcentre
Member
Member # 39166
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought this might describe his look?

If disgust is a word indicating a bad taste, dissmell, Tomkins says, is his analogue for a bad smell. The facial characteristics are upper lip wrinkled and head pulled back. The body may also withdraw distancing itself from the source of the bad smell. Dissmell is an early warning of noxious substances. Dissmell and disgust may operate independently or together at different intensities. Anyone on the receiving end of the dissmell affect, being treated as if they smell bad, will suffer reduced self-esteem and thus experience shame (Nathanson 1992: 125).

got it from here: http://mentalhealthnote.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/dismell.html


But there's a GREAT article with pics here: http://www.tomkins.org/uploads/ASP_Primer_2012.pdf

[This message edited by Softcentre at 12:32 PM, January 24th, 2014 (Friday)]


Me: BW
Him: STBXWH 'The Arse' likes strong but broken OW
OW - EA - 'Holy Chick'
COW - Suspected EA/PA 'The Ambassador'
COW - Susp EA 'The Baker'
COW - EA/PA 'Fat Bottomed Girl'
COW - Susp EA 'MiniMe'

Posts: 1000 | Registered: May 2013 | From: UK
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Softcentre- Yes it does. I know it was a look of disgust but I couldn't figure out if it was because he found what I was asking as disgusting or if he felt disgusted with himself because he did it.

Anyone on the receiving end of the dissmell affect, being treated as if they smell bad, will suffer reduced self-esteem and thus experience shame

Does this mean a look of disgust is a sign of shame? Or that those who receive a look of disgust experience shame? I'm not sure I understand what he was trying to say.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The best work may be by Sylvan Tomkins who did the ground-breaking work on affect theory. His work is being carried on by the Tomkins Institute - www.tomkins.org. I'd start there.

Thank you sisoon!


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sk him something not A related, something he didn't do but say he did. Maybe you can see his face when he's defending himself with the truth. For instance...why did you leave the gate open again, the dog got out and was lost for an hour. See what kind of pitch he hits when he says he didn't do it.

I did this once before. I asked if he ever did anything with another COW, one that I knew he never did anything with. His reaction was surprise and he literally told me to shut up. It was an "are you kidding me?" reaction. See that's the issue I am having deciphering how he reacted when I asked about these three women. The first two he calmly responded and said "No, I never did anything physical with them. I would never do that to you. There was never any sort of emotional or physical intentions." The third his pitch changed (higher) and he was more adamant in his declaration of innocence. He seemed more surprised too. It's almost as if the first two he would have considered it but the last one there was absolutely no thought about ever being physical. Maybe that's all there is to it....the first two he thought about but the last one he didn't. Maybe the look of disgust was because he found actually being physical with anyone else was disgusting.

Or maybe he was and was disgusted with himself.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Softcentre
Member
Member # 39166
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dismell is person A giving a look of disgust to person B. Person B would normally feel shame.

I think that maybe the disgust thing is because they want to bury the whole thing, don't want to talk about it - a wanting to rugsweep reaction, which tries to project shame onto the person who refuses to rugsweep with them.


Me: BW
Him: STBXWH 'The Arse' likes strong but broken OW
OW - EA - 'Holy Chick'
COW - Suspected EA/PA 'The Ambassador'
COW - Susp EA 'The Baker'
COW - EA/PA 'Fat Bottomed Girl'
COW - Susp EA 'MiniMe'

Posts: 1000 | Registered: May 2013 | From: UK
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that maybe the disgust thing is because they want to bury the whole thing, don't want to talk about it - a wanting to rugsweep reaction, which tries to project shame onto the person who refuses to rugsweep with them.

Ah! Well that would go along with all the other behaviors like accusing me of cheating, evading certain questions with declarations of "love", and making negative comments about this site and my sister (my only forms of outside support atm). He is trying to shift the focus off of himself. He wouldn't do these things if he wasn't in fact hiding something.

Ugh, this is bad. I need to gain clarity. I feel so confused at the moment. I made an appt with IC for next Wednesday but I think I am going to go a step further and reach out to our community mental health center. There was only one other time I have felt this way in my life and it took medication to get my head clear enough to really see what was happening and disconnect.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
NeverAgain2013
♀ Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly, I think the 'disgust' thing on his face is done on purpose to try to make his denial appear more realistic.

The whole thing sounds so phoney. He was caught sneaking around with these women and acting inappropriately with them either via chat or text or whatever, and then he acts like it would be utterly 'disgusting' to have had sex with them? That logic doesn't even make sense.

I really think the look of 'disgust' he puts on when he denies having had sex with them is merely a show just for you, in the hopes that he'll appear more believeable.

I remember asking my ex if he'd had sex with his OW. The look of 'disgust' on his face was priceless as he denied it and went on about how she was 'a big gal' so he wasn't attracted to her, and blah blah blah.

Yeah, turns out he was lying.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 3:16 PM, January 24th (Friday)]


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1756 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
cl131716
♀ Member
Member # 40699
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, January 24th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really think the look of 'disgust' he puts on when he denies having had sex with them is merely a show just for you, in the hopes that he'll appear more believeable.

You may be right. As I said in a previous reply I'm not sure I can call the look a micro-expression because he does the look nearly the whole time he is talking. I am so tempted to video record him next time so I can really analyze his behavior.


Me BS 31
Him WS 34 Trying4change
Together 3 years, married for one
D-day: 07/23/13 cybersex with COW
D-day: 12/27/13 found out he met and kissed a "friend" in 2011
"A clear and innocent conscience fears nothing."

Posts: 935 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oklahoma
Topic Posts: 17

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