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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Free Pass?
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

notyur, I agree that your posting reflects the intellectually honest position. Hard to get there with the emotional, wounded self.

I suppose that it comes down to whether the original A was a deal breaker. If it was, then a BS making another bombing run on a city already destroyed by a nuclear warhead strikes me as of no consequence. So as in dontcare5's sitch, when the timer goes off and his wife finds out that the M is over, my tough love response is that her A was a deal breaker, and that she knew the risks when she chose to have her marriage ending A. As one poster once said, affairs are designed to end marriages.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 881 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So as in dontcare5's sitch, when the timer goes off and his wife finds out that the M is over, my tough love response is that her A was a deal breaker, and that she knew the risks when she chose to have her marriage ending A. As one poster once said, affairs are designed to end marriages.
Except he didn't end the M.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3990 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

True Brandon in a literal sense, but a marriage can be seen as ending from a love/spiritual/specialness sense.

The ultimate risk a WS accepts in having an A is that things do not turn out as hoped/planned/etc. Unfortunately in our culture there are way to many portrayals of infidelity that result in happy endings. Whoops that pun was not intended.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 7:26 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 881 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

True Brandon in a literal sense, but a marriage can be seen as ending from a love/spiritual/specialness sense.
Isn't this the same justification heard by many BS?

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 7:47 PM, January 26th, 2014 (Sunday)]


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3990 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, January 26th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes it is. I am not exonerating or justifying his behavior. I am merely saying that his and his wife's outcome is in the set of expected possible bad outcomes for the original WS when he/she closes an A.

we are t/j 'ing btw.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 881 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am merely saying that his and his wife's outcome is in the set of expected possible bad outcomes for the original WS when he/she closes an A.

The only expected outcome from cheating is divorce.
If not why are we waywards and our BS's so amazed when our BS's offer reconciliation?

I would posit there are three states after betrayal.

1. Divorce
2. Reconciliation
3. Limbo (Not divorcing yet)

Dontcare5's situation is pretty simple, he's cheating, end of story.
What came before has no bearing.
It is not a consequence or an outcome of his wife's infidelity.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 1:34 AM, January 27th (Monday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Dontcare5
♂ New Member
Member # 41242
Default  Posted: 12:32 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I dont want to thread jack but MC Jack yeah my "Marriage" or sham as I like to think of it now ended when she let another man into her heart. Like I said before I tried really hard to try to make it work but I cant force myself to feel the same about my wife as I did before so when I accepted that I cant feel the love anymore I resented her and now I really dont care anymore. I can not wait to divorce my "wife" I tried to make her happy ever since I met her. I always tried to give her everything I kept going on dates with her I always complimented her buy her gifts for a queen always showed her affection but she said Fuck that when she fell in love with my best friend. After that I just fell into depression I cried all the time everyday hidden from my wife and my family and I just felt alone and sometimes I still do. I tried so hard to rekindle my feelings but everytime I tried to worst I felt every kiss every cuddle every hand holding everything just killed me a little inside. What I take from the A is that it made me grow up and realize that I was a dweeb back then so I change myself as much as I possibly could internally and externally. It was the only way to survive this by myself. My wife says that she loves me more than ever which just makes me think that it took her crushing my very soul to love me more but I dont care anymore. I dont care about anything except my kids after Dday. I just have to wait 1 more year to divorce my wife.
But to me if a BS have an affair or RA if you want to call it that then that means that he or she is internally done with the marriage. My justification for my "affair" is that my female friend put a move on me and it felt right so I went for it too and now shes my girlfriend. The other ONSs were just self destructing acts but my girlfriend set me straight I guess.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Nov 2013
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 1:09 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But to me if a BS have an affair or RA if you want to call it that then that means that he or she is internally done with the marriage.

So why not act with integrity, do the honorable thing and divorce, instead of becoming a cheater yourself?

To continue in a sham of a marriage while cheating, allowing your wife to believe you are reconciled is beyond cruel, it is pure evil.

What do you hope to achieve by joining SI? What is your goal?

If it's sympathy or justification, I don't think you're going to get it.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Dontcare5
♂ New Member
Member # 41242
Default  Posted: 2:04 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly its just for my son hes almost in college and a divorce would just be in his way I dont want that I love my children. I dont have anything to prove my wife broke the marriage vows so to me there are no vows anymore. I think is cruel what she did with my best friend which I dont even want to remember the things she did. But calm down its not like Im trying to take over the world or something Im just living my life. I want to divorce but I have to wait and I might as well make the last days of this as pleasant as possible I mean I have to keep this show up. I come here for the information and also because I cant sleep most days so nothing special I just shared her my story because just like Jack said affairs are design to end marriages my relationship with my girlfriend is just because I like her she likes me and internally my marriage is over so we are seeing were it goes and its very well so its not to hurt my wife I didnt have her in mine when it started.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Nov 2013
2yrsblind
♂ Member
Member # 41974
Default  Posted: 2:13 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slowuptake, I get where your coming from, however I understand RA. I get that more. From age 16 to 21 I fought everything to stay faithful to a virgin GF. It was hard but I did it. We got engaged at 21 and married at 22. After marriage we still didn't have sex often maybe 10 times in two years. Then I find out that she had been unfaithful a mere two after she became sexually active. I waited 6 freaking years for this? Beating myself up for having strong sexual attractions for other women. Then she does this.

I recall dday one of my first thoughts was back to how I would emotionally punish myself for thoughts and feeling that I almost had no control over.

I fully intended on a RA, not only that but it was going to be with one of her close friends. Like a lion, I picked out the weak one and went in for the attack. I was sitting in the parking lot of her apt complex and thought. "I'm better then this, and then her" I drove away. Not because of vows which were tainted and meant nothing at that point.

But I get it. I was hurt, then in that time I thought about all the things I had given up, compromised, bent to and flat out wilted on. And I wanted to hurt her like she hurt me. In a way sometimes I wish I had, instead I punished her for two years then walked away and divorced her when she thought we were doing great. Worst part is I never even told her to her face. Moved out when she was gone she was served like three days later and I didn't talk to her during that time. I regret that

[This message edited by 2yrsblind at 2:25 AM, January 27th (Monday)]


The most damaging lies told are those we tell to ourselves--my grandma

Posts: 95 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest USA
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 2:26 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I'm better then this, and then her" I drove away. Not because of vows which were tainted and meant nothing at that point.

More power to you, my friend with integrity and morals!
I don't blame any BS for thinking about it. It's perfectly understandable.
What seperates the 'men from the boys' is NOT doing it.
Sadly, I used to be a boy for cheating in the first place, I've grown up since then.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 3:18 AM, January 27th (Monday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 2:39 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think is cruel what she did with my best friend which I dont even want to remember the things she did. But calm down its not like Im trying to take over the world or something Im just living my life.

So your comfortable being not as bad as your wife but actually worse.

I come here for the information and also because I cant sleep most days

Or maybe your not that comfortable.


my relationship with my girlfriend is just because I like her she likes me and internally my marriage is over so we are seeing were it goes and its very well

Are you are aware that statistically relationships that are the product of cheating have a less than 5% chance of succeeding?


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dontcare5's situation is pretty simple, he's cheating, end of story.
What came before has no bearing.
It is not a consequence or an outcome of his wife's infidelity.

I agree that DC5 is cheating. He's no longer 'married' in his mind but hasn't told his wife. No doubt, cheating.

I disagree that it's not a consequence of his wife's infidelity. DC5 wouldn't be in this position had his wife not cheated. He would still be very much married, not only physically but emotionally as well. It may not fit into a predefined category, but it's an affair that exists only because of his wife's A.

DC5, I think it's sad that you're wife's affair jaded you so much that this is now where you find yourself. I do understand. I'm not cheating or waiting to leave, but I understand.

There are a great many posting on other forums here on SI that are 'still married' for one reason or another, but not emotionally. They are either waiting for the kids to grow up, or to finish school, or some other reason, but in their mind, the M is over. It ended when the WS's A started. I would bet that a great many of those individuals, if they met someone, would cheat.

I'm not condoning cheating. I think if the M is over, then all parties should know that. That is, after all, the courtesy we BSs ask for - the truth. But I do understand.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
SpotlessMind
♀ Member
Member # 41775
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((CantBeUndone)))

I'm sorry--that had to be very painful to hear. And I agree with others--it's absolutely ok to tell your BS how you feel about this.

There is a good chance he is saying those things out of hurt pride and anger, and doesn't really mean them. I know I told my husband on DDay that I was going to go out and find someone to have sex with, just before I left the house for several days (though I said it in much cruder terms--ugh. I also followed it up with "but you obviously wouldn't care anyway" which I'm sure weakened my intended impact.)

I didn't have any intention of doing any such thing. I was just lashing out in an attempt to hurt him even a fraction as much as he hurt me.

Revenge affairs are not the answer. I feel like they would only lead to more suffering--for both partners.


fWS/BS--me
BH/WH--him
Married: 12 yrs
D-Day: October
Kids: yes

Posts: 277 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Where am I?
Dontcare5
♂ New Member
Member # 41242
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slow Uptake just cool down right now I am going to divorce when my son starts his new life in college. I tried to rekindle those feelings but they are gone. She did things to and with him that she didnt do with me out of 20 years together. She tried to make it up to me by doing the same things but I dont want pity. The first time I had a ONS was about 1 year after trying for Reconciliation and I was in a very dark place and I did things I never imagine I'd do in my life and at that point I just wanted to see if I could enjoy sex like I used to. I was just done with the marriage and didnt care about it anymore but I knew that my two boys need both me and their mom to stay together for them to go to college. I did not expose the affair so I could just pretend that it never happened. My then female friend told me what I was becoming and she became my support. For a few months then I was a single man who was married and I wasnt looking for a RA until one day she just went for it and now we are together this is not a revenge affair its a relationship. I am not concern about it succeeding my marriage didnt so if it does great if it doesnt fine I am not going back to that 1 year after dday I refuse. My relationships arent to hurt her cause in my mind I was a single man. If someone has a RA it means that they are done with the marriage to me anyway its just my opinion.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Nov 2013
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my question, am I allowed to set any ground rules or really ask for anything from my BS right now?

BH here so I hope this is ok.

I can see how you would wonder that. If I put myself in your same position I would be torn as well. I think it comes down to two wrongs never make a right. You've already dug a hole with your A, I hope your BH doesn't jump in there with you and start digging too.

I believe that we are responsible for what we do, not what others do to us. So if your BH chooses to go ahead and put himself in a situation that breaks your trust in him, that is on him. He is choosing his actions, just like you chose yours. Doesn't matter if it is out of hurt, hate, anger, validation, etc etc. He (or you even) can justify it any way he wants, but it doesn't make it ok.

Figuring out how to approach him is the tricky part. I think you can tell him that when he goes out with said friend you worry that he is going to be unfaithful. Or at the very least you don't feel comfortable with him going out with this person. Then it is up to him to chose whether he wants to respect you or not. If not, then you have a choice to make. Will you accept what he is doing out of guilt or shame? Or put up boundaries for yourself. You can't control him, only yourself. Regardless of your past choices, you have a right to be respected also. You don't have to relaliate either. You can take the necessary actions you need to feel safe and respected in a way that doens't make you look like a hypocrate. What those actions are I think can be addressed best in IC or MC.

Stay strong and be true to yourself first.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
CantBeUndone
♀ Member
Member # 42205
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DC5, Why are you posting here exactly? From the guidelines:

We ask that current and practicing wayward spouses (WS) and other women/men (OP) not post or harass our members here that are suffering through unbearable pain. WS or OP's that are remorseful and committed back to their relationship are welcome to post and find guidance and support while repairing the damage they've caused.

This is utterly ridiculous:

My relationships arent to hurt her cause in my mind I was a single man. If someone has a RA it means that they are done with the marriage to me anyway its just my opinion.

That's the same justification I told myself. The marriage was dead, I wanted out, I deserved to be happy, etc etc The reality is that you're still married. Your BS THINKS that you are R and that you still love her. What she did was awful but from what you've written, it sounds like she's trying to do better. YOU are now the WS and you seem PROUD of it. From what you've posted, it seems you feel zero remorse about the hell you're about the let loose on her life even though, as a BS yourself, you know the devastation it causes. I feel sorry for you, your wife, your children, there's no happiness in what you're doing. Go read the Count of Monte Cristo.


Me: WW
Him: BH
30's, 4 kids
DD- Jan 2014

Posts: 55 | Registered: Jan 2014
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 12:18 PM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dontcare5...

You have a PM.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198232 | Registered: May 2002
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my question, am I allowed to set any ground rules or really ask for anything from my BS right now?

Setting boundaries in our relationship is important and healthy. I think you are not only entitled to ask, but it could be a relationship strengthening discussion.

Understand that your BH is not thinking straight. He is hurting, and searching for anything that will help him feel better. He also may have a hard time associating his pain with the pain you would feel from his hypothetical RA. I know that 3 years into R, I still have a hard time imagining my FWH would hurt like I did from his affair. After all, he cheated first, right? (I'm not saying he wouldn't. It is just hard to imagine.) I completely understand your worry but my hope is that your BH would not act on his feelings today.

I didn't remain faithful for my FWH's sake. I remained faithful because I didn't want to throw more shit on the pile we were already dealing with. I did so because I wanted to maintain my integrity and not compromise my values. I felt like I had already lost so much of myself during the A because he treated me with disregard and I accepted it, and I needed to feel good about myself. I never considered a revenge affair, per se, but I did crave closeness with someone after so long without it. I just (barely) had enough presence of mind to realize that going outside my marriage before I had made a decision to divorce was not going to be good for me.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1741 | Registered: Nov 2010
Dontcare5
♂ New Member
Member # 41242
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, January 27th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay so I have been thinking about all of your messages well the some that arent meant to be a jab at me and I came to the conclusion that maybe my relationship with my girlfriend is just mean and probably a bad thing IDK after dday my principles have been off as I said before I did things that I never even thought I'd do so I am going to end it and tell her that I cant while I am married it probably be more chaotic than it needs to be when the divorce comes. The reason why I posted is that I feel that if a BS wants a RA he or she is probably done with the Reconciliation internally. So if the OPs BS has a RA she could know my mindset from someone who was having one there should be NO FREE PASS if you both are trying to reconcile. CantBeUndone think your post gave me the biggest impact about what I am doing. It made me look at myself from a different light. I didnt post to harras members if any. I saw this thread thought I give my 2 cents in the topic of Free Passes. So I am going to end it probably call to end it after this post. Sorry about the thread jacking but I think that the people who challenge me were actually trying to help me so in a wierd way thank you. I am going to stay single while married.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Nov 2013
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