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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: People are starting to notice
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the rift in the family. And it's very uncomfortable. Was talking to a friend yesterday and we were chatting about our upcoming weeks. I made mention I have civic duties this month and it's stressful cause I'm on call the next 30 days, I'm scrambling for child care and finagling schoolwork. I got a, "Ok. WHAT is going on with you and FOO!?!?!" Cause she knows that FOO is my go-to for child care.

Guess I shouldn't have opened my mouth to begin with. I should have been more careful with what I said. But then...I'm censoring myself and in a way, protecting FOO. (?) I am not wanting to throw them under the bus and make them the bad guys. I'm just trying to live quietly and not make waves with outsiders. Cause I know it's nobody's business.

But then....this is my life now right? I'm not BFF with FOO, I do have to struggle with child care, and not having FOO to fall back on. I'm not going to lie about it, but I'm not going to shout my issues from the rooftops.

Man, this isn't even coming out right.

How exactly do you talk to people without saying anything? They see us and FOO several times a week. They see our lack of interaction. They know things are changing. And I know I don't have to tell anyone anything. Guess it's hard when a friend says, "Ok. What is up?"

I don't have a problem telling Average Joe that it's none of their business, jump off a bridge. But how do you tell friends (who are safe people) when they approach you?

And now I'm going to jack my own thread.

My brother. We have a tradition. Coffee and book shopping every semester. That didn't happen this semester. He's back in class, I don't even know which classes he's taking, what his hours are. I heard thru the grapevine he changed his major. He's not even talking to me. Cause I'm a witch who's being mean to Mother.

Hurts, ya know? Crap that shouldn't have to change, has changed.

I'm really struggling. Yes, again. Am I really doing the right thing? Am I really carrying myself in the best way possible? I have to be. I'm better, healthier. My marriage is better because I've distanced myself from FOO. And it's not the same creepy, abusive distance that my ex caused. I'm not distancing myself from them for other people. I'm doing it for me. I feel more free. I don't feel oppressed. I feel safer. More whole. I know I'm doing right.

Blech. Being a grown up sucks.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
nowiknow23
♀ Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ripples. Lots of ripples. The first few times you're presented with these conversations will be uncomfortable, but you will find the words that serve you best. After that, the next time friends ask those same questions, the answers will come more easily.

As for what those words are? Not sure. My words likely wouldn't work for you. But I'm confident you'll find the right ones that are truthful, kind, and communicate exactly what you want to say.

I'm sorry that things are strained with your brother. I hope things will iron out between you soon. (((Aubrie)))


You can call me NIK

"Sometimes it takes a good fall to know where you really stand."
-Hayley Williams


Posts: 25018 | Registered: Aug 2011
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't like ripples.

The first few times you're presented with these conversations will be uncomfortable, but you will find the words that serve you best.
My first instinct? "It's hard growing up and making your own decisions, and doing things that's best for you, despite what anyone else thinks, despite the fact they agree with you or not. I have to do what is best for my family and for me. I'm an "adult" and still learning important lessons. Tough stuff."

Vague enough, I hope. But enough to get the point across without an epic verbal vomit.

I'm sorry that things are strained with your brother. I hope things will iron out between you soon.
Dunno. Doubtful. I feel he's collateral damage in this whole drama. He's still at home, he sees everything thru the lens the parental units put in front of him. One would hope that he would see things for himself, but so far comments and attitudes prove otherwise. I've heard that I'm being evil, that I have a terrible attitude, and I'm breaking their hearts and have no conscience about it.

A heart to heart with him to "clear the air" would be reported back to the parents and twisted and shredded.

Not worth the risk. *shrug*


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie ... As I read your post, I was reminded of how our FOO issues are often the result of the interplay of family or friends with poor or non-existent people skills.

That thought in turn made me think of something a friend posted on fb today. I think it may be appropriate for you at times.

I hope one day you manage to untangle the Gordian knot of your family dynamics and if that's not possible, I hope you learn to distance yourself from the mess. Letting the drama go is part of the healing process.


Dont listen to your head, its easily confused. Dont listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3230 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Well, let's just say I'm on my own with this and can't rely on FOO right now. It's not something I really feel comfortable discussing at this point. (and then immediately redirect, without even taking a breath) OMG your shoes/nail polish/hair color/whatever are to DIEEE for! Where did you get it?!"

Re: brother- as long as he's living with your parents, he'll share their viewpoint. Things will be different between you guys too unless he experiences their crap for himself. It sucks and I'm sorry for it.

You're doing the right thing. I think it's normal for things like these to crop up and leave you reeling and unsure whether you're actually taking the right course. Just deal with them as they come up, as you do now. You're doing great in a crappy situation!

((((Aubrie))))


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Feb 2010
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Aubrie))) I know this shit is hard.

Ok. WHAT is going on with you and FOO!?!
"We're working thru some stuff right now."

End of discussion, redirect.

I feel safer. More whole. I know I'm doing right.
Right isn't always easy, sometimes it is the more difficult choice. Hang in there!


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15193 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How exactly do you talk to people without saying anything?

"We're working thru some stuff right now."
End of discussion, redirect.

Great answer. Bottom line...

I'm better, healthier. My marriage is better because I've distanced myself from FOO. And it's not the same creepy, abusive distance that my ex caused. I'm not distancing myself from them for other people. I'm doing it for me. I feel more free. I don't feel oppressed. I feel safer. More whole. I know I'm doing right.

^^^^^This is what matters. Your FoO is unlikely to change. The only person you can change is...Yep, you've got it. You're doing great.

Blech. Being a grown up sucks.

Lol, yep. On a more serious note, it's called taking responsibility. Both the good and the bad. Keep on doing good.

Re: your brother. I agree that as long as he is under your parents roof, there is little you can do. I recommend letting him know that the lines of communication are open. He will eventually(hopefully) realize the toxic environment that he is in and seek you out.

(This might cross a line, so apologies in advance) Abusers do their best work in isolation. That way they can continue the abuse without interference.

He's not even talking to me. Cause I'm a witch who's being mean to Mother.

And the cycle continues.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2721 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I need to defend my friend. She's my friend. Not my FOO's. Or "ours". (as in shared) Yes she knows my parents. We all attend the same church. But she is one of my close friends. So I guess, how do I tell one of my BFF that it's none of her business?

And this is coming from the position of not having girl friends, and not sharing myself with safe people, and not knowing how to maneuver the world of friendship. So, to say, "Just tell her it's none of her business." isn't exactly helpful. Cause I'm trying to build, nurture, and make friendships in the first place. Guess I'm trying to figure out where the boundaries of friendship with other gals are? At what point do I just not tell anyone anything.

Guess what complicates things is, my parents are in a leadership position. They have power in the church. So who am I to say anything against my parents? I don't want to be guilty of saying anything that would cause them to loose their position or change people's view of them. I want that to come from their own actions. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

If they get the boot or if their reputation is tarnished, let it be that they showed their true colors and everyone saw it. Not because someone heard from me that they were in a serious family crisis and blah, blah, blah.

I pretty much feel at this point maybe I don't need friends. Not people that know me IRL anyway. Keeps things simple. If I see people I know IRL, we can talk about the weather or a movie or news headlines, and then I can go back under my rock for the week. I'm freaking 29 years old. And I can't even walk the path of friendship without feeling inadequate and stupid. That's ridiculous.

(This might cross a line, so apologies in advance) Abusers do their best work in isolation. That way they can continue the abuse without interference.
I understand and recognize the abuse. There's no need to apologize.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 4:08 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honey. Nothing that was suggested to you is a polite way to say "fuck off" to your friend.

Instead, it's all about you and YOUR level of comfort in disclosing this information. It's neither a dig at your friend nor does it point to any inadequacies in her/your friendship with her/her trustworthiness/etc.

You have your own reasons for disclosure or non disclosure here. If she's a real friend, she'll respect that. If my friends told me they didn't wish to discuss, I'd like to think I'd back off and just say, sincerely, "I'm here if/when you need me. Now let's go get a latte!" SO might disagree- I push him to talk about EVERYTHING. Ad nauseam. I'm realizing that it correlates to my menstrual cycle- around certain times of the month I'm either, "OMG he's gonna leave meeee," or, "OMG we need to solve ALL our problems, all at one time! Let's hash it out! NOW"

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 4:49 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Feb 2010
SpotlessMind
♀ Member
Member # 41775
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Aubrie)))

I'm going to try a different tactic than helping you find the right words to tell your friend to butt out. I'm going to ask...is there a reason you can't tell her?

The reason I ask is bc up until I discovered my husband's affairs, I was the queen of not sharing personal things. Superficial stuff? Sure! But anything that made me feel vulnerable or exposed--forget it.

Turns out, this fear of being vulnerable/intimacy was one of my issues in our pre-A marriage, too.

I now have one friend who I can share just about everything with, and another who I share a lot with. I've found it enormously freeing, and as a result, our friendships have deepened. I feel like any relationship requires a certain level of openness to create true closeness.

I'm not saying that you *should* confide in your friend, not at all. Only you can know it that makes sense. I'm just suggesting that you take some time and evaluate the why behind not confiding, so that you can be reasonably certain that's the healthiest course of action for you in the long run.

((((Hugs)))). The lack of contact with your brother sucks. I'm so sorry.

[This message edited by SpotlessMind at 5:25 PM, February 3rd (Monday)]


fWS/BS--me
BH/WH--him
Married: 12 yrs
D-Day: October
Kids: yes

Posts: 277 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Where am I?
abbycadabby
♀ Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I pretty much feel at this point maybe I don't need friends

Not true. /gavel


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Feb 2010
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I pretty much feel at this point maybe I don't need friends. Not people that know me IRL anyway. Keeps things simple. If I see people I know IRL, we can talk about the weather or a movie or news headlines, and then I can go back under my rock for the week. I'm freaking 29 years old. And I can't even walk the path of friendship without feeling inadequate and stupid. That's ridiculous.

Well that's a defeatest attitude, don't you think? I imagine a bottom lip pouting as you say it!

Look, I understand the difficulty of friendships. I dropped pretty much every friend after DDay. Then we moved half way across the country. I am just now starting to navigate new friendships. I am both terrified and excited all at once. HT struggles a bit with this too. When people don't know things about you they will say things that will push certain buttons or trigger us.

How exactly do you talk to people without saying anything?

Unfortunately we keep getting practice with this one in regards to the A. You talk to people, you share things with them, but only to a certain point. You have conversations and people say things that are uncomfortable but you can't exactly tell them because then you feel like you have to divulge more than you are willing to. It sucks because if someone is your friend then you should be able to share, but on the same token it's risky to share because people can have strong opinions about situations they have very little understanding of. So what to do?

I have had to tell people that "it's personal" or "I can't really talk about it". I have had to just remain quiet. I have been caught off guard and I know have appeared flustered. But if I want friends I have to take the risk and say what I feel is right for the situation. I have to be able to stand my ground even if it means keeping people at arms length for now.

I'm pretty sure I am not making any sense at this point. Just wanted to say that I completely understand how hard it can be to navigate friendships these days!


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 648 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I need to defend my friend. She's my friend. Not my FOO's. Or "ours". (as in shared) Yes she knows my parents. We all attend the same church. But she is one of my close friends. So I guess, how do I tell one of my BFF that it's none of her business?

Nope, no need to defend her at all. My question would be(realize, I have NO concept of how good a friend she is) what would you gain by telling her. There's a lot of things to consider.

I don't want to be guilty of saying anything that would cause them to loose their position or change people's view of them.

Would your friend be one to spread what you tell her around town? When/if you tell her, will her reaction be supportive of you? QS & kids? Is this someone you see as a lifelong friend or a really good acquaintance.

My view of friends may be somewhat skewed, but, if at the end of my life, I have 5 people that I KNOW would walk through the fire for me(BFF requirement), I will consider my life a success. The rest fall into the transient friend/acquaintance category. Where does your BFF fall?

Cause I'm trying to build, nurture, and make friendships in the first place. Guess I'm trying to figure out where the boundaries of friendship with other gals are?

Are you ok putting yourself out on a limb for her? Obviously, she's a FOM but is she a friend? In that line, what is your definition of friend?

Great questions you are asking yourself.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2721 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I pretty much feel at this point maybe I don't need friends
Wrong answer. (Sorry, I tend to be a bit blunt....) but....you DO need friends IRL. Friends are so important, and they can help keep us on the right track, but....it takes time to cultivate a true, close friendship.

So I guess, how do I tell one of my BFF that it's none of her business?So, to say, "Just tell her it's none of her business." isn't exactly helpful. Cause I'm trying to build, nurture, and make friendships in the first place. Guess I'm trying to figure out where the boundaries of friendship with other gals are? At what point do I just not tell anyone anything.
Okay, this puts things in a different perspective. If this is someone you are trying to nurture a close friendship with, then you have to take some chances. To build intimacy with a friend, it is pretty much the same as building intimacy with a partner. As you slowly get to know and trust this person (and if you don't trust her, she can't be a BFF), you offer more and more intimate information. As you find out she is trustworthy and has your best interest at heart, you can talk with her about more personal issues. How long have you known her and how much do you trust her? If it has been a while and you DO trust her, then you need to think about why you feel you can't share your issues with her.

If she is truly a BFF, then her motives for asking you are not to get gossip to spread around but to show she cares about you, support you, and be there for you to lean on, vent with, and share problems with.

I have ONE BFF that I can tell anything to no matter what it is. My deepest darkest secrets, my most embarrassing mistakes, my FOO dysfunctions....but it took a couple years for us to get to the point where we were that comfortable and trusting of each other. Now, I am closer to her than I am to my sister because my BFF shares my views and values more closely than my sister.

It is scary to take chances with friends and I HAVE been burnt a time or two, but just like with partners, friends are important enough to me that I will keep trying and striving for them.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15193 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
gahurts
♂ Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, February 3rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We all attend the same church.


my parents are in a leadership position. They have power in the church. So who am I to say anything against my parents? I don't want to be guilty of saying anything that would cause them to loose their position or change people's view of them. I want that to come from their own actions. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

If they get the boot or if their reputation is tarnished, let it be that they showed their true colors and everyone saw it. Not because someone heard from me that they were in a serious family crisis and blah, blah, blah.

Aubrie, I've really struggled with whether to bring this up or not but it really weighs heavy on my mind. Please forgive me if I am overstepping or touching in an area I shouldn't.

I strongly suggest that you and QS find a different church nearby that is the same faith and denomination but is not affiliated with your current church. Or at least attend services at a different time when your FOO won't likely be there. I have several reasons for suggesting this:

1. You are put in continued contact with your FOO simply by attending services each week. It is so much harder trying to deal with all of this if you have to see and or interact with them every week. Especially if you have to uphold appearances.

2. If there is obvious friction that people can notice, it has the potential of you withdrawing to avoid any potential for drama (or in respect of their leadership position) and not getting out of the service what you went there for. They will serve as a distraction. Especially if your dad is actually active in officiating the service.

3. Trying to not violate the guidelines on religion but I am concerned that the stress of dealing with your family at church might serve to drive you away from attending services at all. It is clear from your posts that your faith is very important to you and having to worry about running into them every Sunday and dealing with whatever may come up can be very stressful and drive you away from attending.

4. I do not know how you started attending this particular church or these services. Was this your and QS's choice or did you just go where FOO always went because that was expected of you? Changing to a different church building would be y'all's choice without interference or stress from FOO.

I am really sorry that you are going through this but it really sounds like it is making a positive difference for you and for your M. I know I have my own issues and I don't know if I could take a stance like you've had to but I have the blessing of 800+ miles to allow us to cool off in between blow-ups and that helps a lot. When you all are so intertwined in the community, church and everything else, how can you detach when you have the constant reminder of seeing them every day?

Anyway, If I am off base then please just disregard.


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3406 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:59 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edited because I lost my crap.

Thank you everyone for you comments and insight.

Lots of food for thought.

Thanks.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 10:03 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6160 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
gahurts
♂ Member
Member # 33699
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ETC: Sometimes losing your crap is a good thing. A cleansing if you will (no pun intended)

[This message edited by gahurts at 10:10 AM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indominable will" - Mahatma Gandi

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - Aubrie


Posts: 3406 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Georgia
itainteasy
♀ Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, February 5th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: your friend.

You only need to tell ANYONE what you're comfortable telling them.

Me? I'm an open freaking book. I will tell ANYONE how crazy my mother is, and how emotionally detached my father is.

You seem to be a lot more reserved. You're also protecting your FOO. You don't have to protect them. It's not your job to preserve their images.

I think if I were trying to say something without saying anything it would sound like this:

"Well, the face they present in public, is not the face we see in private. It's difficult, it's complicated and having limited contact is best for us." then redirect like another poster suggested "omg I love those boots, where did you get them?"

Grown up shit is hard. Having steel cables that connect you to your family makes it harder. You have to have cable cutters to get away. Sometimes the cables are easy to cut away---sometimes you might need to snip at them more than once.

The important things are your marriage, your husband, your kids. The fact that you can SEE how much better these things are BECAUSE of the boundaries you have put in place tells you that you're on the right track.

Your FOO can continue to throw fits and say you're "mean" and "evil". You KNOW you're not.

Hang in there, Aubrie.


Posts: 3355 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
Topic Posts: 18

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