Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: surprised1 (45370)

Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: At what point to I have to accept
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That I will never have all the answers?

Last night I told WH I feel the EA (there has to be a better term for what it was) gets overshadowed and minimized by the PA part of his A. The OW first sent him an inappropriate pic back in Mar or Apr of 2010. He says he doesn't remember how it came about but thinks he had been drinking and may have jokingly said something about sending it. He said up until that point he felt their friendship wasn't crossing any lines (not sure how he feels about this now).

The pics (and eventually sexting) continued off an on right up to and through the PA (also through 5 IVFs, 3 misscarriages and my high-risk pregnancy). He says "it didn't happen all the time and there were long times where it didn't happen at all". Other than that, I have no real context and just cannot understand how this happened for so long. He says he doesn't know what to say because he doesn't understand it either. He justified it to himself at the time with "it's just for release" and basically what I dont' know won't hurt me. Last night he said he kept it completely separate from everything. He has said he even kept it separate from their friendship, they didn't ever really discuss it and that he wasn't unhappy with me/us. He recently said it was a huge boost to his ego that she would send these pics to him (external validation).

How do I process this if I still have so many questions but he can't answer them? How do I just accept that it happened, that I'll never understand it (maybe he won't either), and move on?

I can't even keep my thoughts straight but I had to get this out. Having a hard time functioning today...


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
deena04
♀ Member
Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You accept it when YOU are ready! Nobody can force this on you. It has to be on your timetable. Take care of yourself and you will get there. Maybe you won't be able to accept it, which would possibly lead to D. Go at your pace and you will get to a decision.


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
I want out!

Posts: 1086 | Registered: Dec 2013
morethantrying
♀ Member
Member # 40547
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for me, it is starting to get to the point that I have most of the answers, or have come to an understanding as best I can and the rest, now I feel like I just don't care anymore...don't want to bother with spending my precious time thinking about the stupid thing he and she did any more...you will get to this point too I think...I still slide back a bit but more and more I just don't feel like thinking about it anymore...


Affairs - hard on us both - but love will win.
Me: BS 55
Him: WS 62
Married 32 yrs.
dday TT from 12/2012-2/2013)...

Posts: 305 | Registered: Sep 2013
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just SO afraid that if he doesn't understand it, what will stop him from doing it (or something like it) again. Sometimes I feel like if he can explain it to me (even if I can't truly understand it), maybe he really gets it and can work to make sure he is "safe" for me.

Him not understanding it himself and not being able to talk about things in a more conversational way (he basically shuts down when he doesn't have the answers I'm looking for), makes me feel unsafe. I don't feel supported through the hard times and worry he is still pushing everything down so he doesn't have to deal with the pain, mine or his.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Morhurt
♀ Member
Member # 40166
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is he in IC? Reading books? Our ddays are similar and I can relate to how you're feeling. But I also see my H doing the "work" to make sure he's safe for me (and himself).
My H has really had to learn how to turn towards me, rather than away, when things are tricky or emotions are uncomfortable. It doesn't come naturally to either of us. And it's a process, sometimes we stumble.

If your H is trying to find his "why" and change to become a worthy and safe partner, then keep walking the path. If he thinks he's there already... Perhaps you need to be more blunt with him.
Hang in there.


Me: BS
Him: FWS
M: 15 years
4 lovely daughters
Working to rebuild.

Posts: 951 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morhurt-He read "how to Help Your Spouse..." but nothing after that. I don't feel like he has put in the effort he should be but he also doesn't share that with me so I can't be sure. He is in IC. His last two sessions were talking about two of his issues that he feels were contributors to him having an A, lack of self-confidence (need for external validation) and being present in the moment (ability to detach/compartmentalize). I just don't know how deep it goes because again, he doesn't really talk to me about it. I do feel like he has uncovered a lot of his whys/hows, I'm just not sure what he's doing to change those behaviors and that's why I still don't feel safe.

I guess part of me also feels like he needs to do more to show me how important this is to him. Whenever I bring it up he agrees he's not putting in the effort he should but just when I think he gets it, he goes right back to what he was doing before.

He is still living in the now and trying to focus on being a good husband/father, which is great but ultimately not what I need and not what I feel he needs at the moment.

I'm rambling again. I wish I could just figure out what he should do and tell him. Then if he didn't do it, I'd know exactly where I stand. I at least want to feel like I am/we are as important to him as the OW was during his A.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Frankie80
♀ Member
Member # 41323
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AML you're in my head again!!
This:
He says "it didn't happen all the time and there were long times where it didn't happen at all". Other than that, I have no real context and just cannot understand how this happened for so long. He says he doesn't know what to say because he doesn't understand it either. He justified it to himself at the time with "it's just for release" and basically what I dont' know won't hurt me. Last night he said he kept it completely separate from everything. He has said he even kept it separate from their friendship, they didn't ever really discuss it and that he wasn't unhappy with me/us. He recently said it was a huge boost to his ego that she would send these pics to him (external validation).

Is practically word for word what my H says!!!
Only two nights ago we had a heated discussion because he still maintains that he really can't remember the date it turned physical, and he doesn't remember the exact no. of times they had sex! I got hysterical asking how many condoms he bought because surely he would remember that...you get the picture!
Anyway, this:
for me, it is starting to get to the point that I have most of the answers, or have come to an understanding as best I can and the rest, now I feel like I just don't care anymore...don't want to bother with spending my precious time thinking about the stupid thing he and she did any more.

Is where I want to be, I guess I'm just not ready yet.
Maybe we're putting too much of this on our H's? Obviously we need answers but surely eventually we've got to have had enough. What is it we need them to say/do? It's driving me crazy!!! Like you it really worries me that if he doesn't work out why he found it so easy to compartmentalise, how the slippery slope began, how does he know he won't do it again???


Me BW
Him WH
Married 5yrs, together 8
DS & DD
DDay 1 18.07.13, 7month PA co-worker
DDay 2 29.09.2013 (continued EA, kissed once)
Working on R

Posts: 75 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: UK
FoggedIn
♀ Member
Member # 40329
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I concur that the "why and how" are important for the exact reasons of preventing it in the future.

If he can't recognize why he allowed it and how he justified it in his own head. The he will not be able to stop it in the future or to catch the warning signs ahead of time.

I'm battling similar issues with WH. He doesn't understand why I need to know the why's of his A. It's a future prevention mechanism , partly. It's a processing mechanism as well.


D-Day 1 8/8/13 :: WH was with prostitute, I found the physical evidence 24 hours later.
Much has happened since.
Not sure where we're at....... MC, IC, R'ish

Posts: 214 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Southwest US
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

for me, it is starting to get to the point that I have most of the answers, or have come to an understanding as best I can and the rest, now I feel like I just don't care anymore...don't want to bother with spending my precious time thinking about the stupid thing he and she did any more...you will get to this point too I think...I still slide back a bit but more and more I just don't feel like thinking about it anymore...

That is my statement too. Plus, I honestly think my wife can not recall some details....weird, but for as much energy as she put into her A, her memories of the details simply lack. If she truly can't recall, it is insane to think I can do any better. My guess is that there was so much lies and deception taking place....she got lost in her own actions.

Still slide back occasionally...but find I quickly get bored with it....but that was a process for me. I still ask questions but mostly out of curiousity more than "need to know". Even that....the answers thus far are text-book in nature. I have read 17 infidelity books.....so much of this is text-book....even my own FOO coping mechs is text-book. Doesnt mean it is not traumatically painful...just not unique.

I'm just SO afraid that if he doesn't understand it, what will stop him from doing it (or something like it) again.

This is the BIG leap of faith a BS has to make at some point. We do not have the "ability" to "teach them".....they knew what they were doing and that it was destructive and wrong but they choose to disconnect the wires to the alarm they all knew were going off....and charge full steam ahead.

We not have the "role" to "teach them" either.....it is up to them to reveal to us their ability to identify the problem and then share how they are working on themselves.

It sucks....it really sucks. My wife has serious struggles with first feeling her feelings and then even more difficulty expressing those feelings. Very good at thinking and telling me her thoughts....but feelings are the key to real growth. Expressing and feeling feelings are one way you become vulnerable...and it appears that bonding takes place in relation to vulnerability.

The ability to feel and express feelings, in my opinion, is one of the keys to insuring that adultery will no longer be an option for my wife.

He read "how to Help Your Spouse..." but nothing after that.

My wife grudgingly read this book....maybe it was the timing but she was not open to doing all of it, more of a pick and choose. Shared almost none of her feelings as she read this book....and I badgered her to read it. We were probably 5-6 months past DD# 1....she had found regret but still had some fog and was resistent to feeling much of anything for me, our M or our family. Logically she wanted to work on our M and restore our family...but her heart was not in it.

I wish I could just figure out what he should do and tell him.

18 months out....have found new wisdom with regards to this "wish" inside me. Co-dependency is a bad thing. I have come to realize the healthiest thing to do is to express my feelings but stop short of telling my wife "what I need HER to tell me".

I am taking another leap of faith that when I successfuly express my feelings to my wife she will make a choice to do something that either helps nurture that feeling (if it is healthy and comforting) or helps heal that feeling (if it is healthy and painful).

And this is a large task for a fWS...asking a lot from someone who, many times, has decades under their belt coping with life by ignoring and NOT feeling their feelings.

Oh....and that "hard time functioning" feeling? I totally get that. Take comfort in the fact that each day you accomplish this, no matter how small an effort you are able to put into it, you are growing and gaining strength.

Keep the faith!


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Frankie, Fogged and Blakesteele!

I full on admit trying to steer him in certain directions to try to speed up the process. I think I have co-dependency tendencies so I really try to be careful there. I "almost" want to spell it because my fear that he doesn't think it's important enough to do on his own is so great. Every time he says he gets it and that he will start doing more and then doesn't is like another rejection and that really is one of my biggest FOO issues. I can't think of anything more painful than feeling like I don't matter to those I love.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Every time he says he gets it and that he will start doing more and then doesn't is like another rejection and that really is one of my biggest FOO issues.

And this is where a properly skilled MC can help. Our original one was not a adultery or infidelity specialists. She encouraged me to do what I naturally, co-dependently wanted to do.....to support my wife and own some of her shit. And I excelled at that. My wife never requested this of me...that was all me choosing this. The fact that both my MC and Pastor supported me in this choice made me confident it was the healthy thing to do.

NOTE: I think this is great advice for marriages under other stress's or when a WS has worked to become a fWS. My pastor and MC both thought the A was dead and my wife was remorseful. I wanted to believe that so I most likely projected this to them as I sought counsel.


It was during this "phase" where she decided to take her EA underground and nurtured it....which quickly (within weeks) went to a full blown, unabashed PA.

At this point I started to recognize how my own actions were actually amplifying the pain I experiencing. I didn't make my wife do that...that is all on her. What I did do was hurt myself.....a dreadful thing to do anytime, but particularly NOT HELPFUL at that time in my life. Took a while for me to forgive myself for this.

NOTE: I dont see you doing that....just that quote above made me think about how I operated for a while.

Separation should have been what happened upon DD. I don't spend much energy on this now....but I see lots of value in at least going to your separate corners immediately upon DD.


Good news is....once you are aware of unhealthy habits....you CAN change them.

And that is where my wife and I are at today.....not talking to D lawyers and actively investigating all of our actions and interactions ....trying to keep the healthy parts and break the unhealthy parts.

Kicker is.....I had no idea how unhealthy I, blakesteele, was until about 5 months post-DD. Even then I was slow to want to look at that....and even slower to be motivated to do something about it.

I still struggle....we both do. But it is getting easier.

I remember having to physically stare at my work boots and, out of sheer will, make them take me to work.

You are growing too...not sure you were ever as unhealthy as me....but I have seen your growth through your posts.

Love Must Be Tough and From Abandonment to Healing were two key books in helping me face my FOO issues and start to process through some coping mechanisms and into processing mechanisms.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 5:17 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for that. I'm definitely going to look into those two books. Have some iTunes credits a can use. Fear of abandonment can really mess with you and I need to get a hold of it. Lots of work to do in IC too.

Hoping MC can help us communicate better. Our first (after some horrible sessions right after dday) is the 12th!!


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree with Morethantrying....I just got to the point that I just don't care anymore. So tired of worrying and wondering. I got as much as I can...which was 14months of digging up stuff...little by little and made him face himself.

Don't settle...he hasn't faced himself if he doesn't know why. And if he doesn't know why...he can't heal himself to make sure he doesn't do it again.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you asked him why he shuts down?

My fWH did the same thing when we talked. Last month he finally confessed that he does it because he doesn't want to face himself. He is embarrassed that he is "that" man. The one that cheated. He is disgusted with himself. It makes him feel shitty. He doesn't want to talk about it or think about who he was and what he did to me.

After all for most cheaters...they cheat because of self-esteem issues.

At some point he needs to put your healing first and suck it up.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He says it's because he doesn't know what to say. He doesn't have any answers so he doesn't say anything. I believe there is a lot he doesn't remember detail wise but feel like he should remember feelings or things he told himself to justify his behavior (some of which he has shared but in a more general way).
Although with regard to the 2.5 years of pics/sexting, it does bother me that I have no idea of when it was happening, and I mean none. When I ask about a specific event (when I was in the hospital for instance) he seems to be sure it didn't happen but I really can't go back through everything and ask that. It would kill me.
I hope someday to move past that but for now it makes me question everything about that time.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I'm really struggling right now and talking about it helps.

Edited for spelling.

[This message edited by AML04 at 7:20 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
morethantrying
♀ Member
Member # 40547
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me I sometimes will think of EVENTS that "cross" with a REALIZATION of what he was REALLY DOING AT THE TIME ...WHAT WAS REALLY Happening AT THE TIME...

When I realize something (oh you called late for business....oh you were having affair then) at first I was obsessed with discussing these REALIZATIONS with him...I wanted our understanding of what was really going on at the time...a real SHARED HISTORY was important...and I think it is. to SHARE IT TOGETHER and have the SAME SHARED MEMORIES I think is important to a certain extent.

Now when I think of events that "cross with realizations" it does not bother me as much.

If you need to talk about it...tell him that is is important that you both share the same understanding of what was going on...SHARE the SAME history and and MEMORIES TOGETHER is what is important as a couple...and partners, I think. By this I mean places where you now "realize" oh he was...need to be shared I think so you will, as a couple have this shared experience...share it together.

After a while for me...even this did not count as much as sharing what is now ...but it takes a while and a certain amount of going over it again to get there...talking about it is one way to help INTERNALIZE it...I remember it being so painful, but I just had to....

The "little details" ...what THEY did is not as important...

FOR ME, what I was doing at the time when he WAS DOING that, at the same time was important to me...because that is the time I needed to have the same memory with him...I wanted and want to SHARE SAME MEMORIES and HISTORY..this is where my experiences and his CROSS and I think it is good to be on the same page...same memories where the two partner's experiences cross. IMO.

It will end, I think...but to internalize all this takes time and talking...even when it is hard...you are PARTNERS in ALL...especially THIS...that is how I view it...claim even the affair as your SHARED EXPERIEnce IN YOUR MARRIED LIFE...this is how I do it.

[This message edited by morethantrying at 7:35 PM, February 4th (Tuesday)]


Affairs - hard on us both - but love will win.
Me: BS 55
Him: WS 62
Married 32 yrs.
dday TT from 12/2012-2/2013)...

Posts: 305 | Registered: Sep 2013
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a fWW it's my fucking obligation to answer the questions honestly and for as long as my BS needs me to. If I don't know HOw to answer I read books (the five languages of apologies) comes to mind, go to IC, find articles or read here to find out the best way I can help my spouse heal.
Anything less than this is not wanting to face what I did. Again, pure selfishness. When will wayward get this??


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5286 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
LA44
♀ Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do I process this if I still have so many questions but he can't answer them? How do I just accept that it happened, that I'll never understand it (maybe he won't either), and move on?

Basically, what rachelc said. Honestly - I did NOT have to deal with what you and so many others are dealing with ((AML04)) - "the, well...golly gee honey....I don't know why I did it...I was really flattered that she sent me these pictures and I was happy with you and I so..huh! Ya got me..." blah fucking blah!

The reason you are having a hard time accepting is bc he is NOT doing the work to figure this out! He shuts down? Sorry. That is not acceptable.

I had a hard enough time accepting and he WAS/IS doing the work!

Tell him one of your requirements for R is that he get himself into IC and start figuring this out. I recommend it for you as well - someone different from him. I needed a professional to listen to me hash this thing out and help me with my thoughts/internal conflicts.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
AML04
♀ Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, February 4th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morethan-that is definitely part of what I'm doing. I'm trying to get a better picture of what was really going on in our M when I was completely blind to a big part of it.

Rachelc-thank you :) I really do think a lot of it is his frustration that he doesn't have the answers for me. He's angry at himself so he doesn't know what to say. Last night I told him to just say anything, I just want to have a conversation about it instead of listening to myself talk.

LA-we are both in IC. I wasn't super thrilled with what he had described was happening at his until he recently. He told me he realized he needs to direct the sessions because the C wasn't really helping him work on figuring out the A. I'm also in IC but think we haven't really dug into my issues yet (CA, fear of abandonment) because we're still focusing on processing my pain.

Also, I do want to say I'm probably not being completely fair to him. He completely takes responsibility for the A and doesn't blameshift. He has a lot of his whys/hows figured out for the PA but says he cannot figure out how he continued with the EA other than external validation/bad boundaries.

I feel like a dog with a bone. I can't figure out why I'm so stuck or what I really need to move forward but I know I need more. I'm worried my foo is going to hurt our R.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
Topic Posts: 19

Return to Forum: Reconciliation Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.