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User Topic: Are Affairs always due to "brokenness"?
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And what exactly is "brokenness"?

Is having an affair always due to an inability or unwillingness to cope with stresses, unmet needs, FOO issues?

What if the reason simply because an opportunity presented itself and the betrayer was selfish enough to enjoy the attention, the ego boost, the sex?

Does the fact that they were selfish mean that they were "broken"?

Does enjoying the attention and/or sex mean that there is a deep reason or need for external validation?

What if the betrayer just never really cared that much for their spouses feelings? They didn't choose to cheat because they wanted to hurt their spouse, just didn't care enough for them to deny themselves what they wanted. Especially if they were confident that their affair would never be found out, no one would be hurt right?

Keeping secrets was their way of protecting their spouse, as well as protecting their lifestyle and reputation.

What if there was no child abuse or sex abuse in their past that we can discover and say "aha, no wonder this person is damaged and hurting." There is no alcohol or drug abuse, no sex addiction, no personality disorder. Yes there was a sense of entitlement and lack of empathy, but that is not enough to be labeled as a narcissist.

Poor boundaries obviously, but enough boundaries to protect themselves from becoming totally enmeshed or entrapped. Marital boundaries that stretch enough to include an AP but not enough to break the marriage wide open.

Is one "broken" if they don't create boundaries to protect their families from intruders? What if they enjoy the intrusion? What if they just didn't care enough to stop the intrusion?

Just simply, not enough love.

I have been searching for the "why" because I didn't want to accept what my H told me on dday. He said he did it because he enjoyed it. Is he "broken"? or was he just being perfectly honest with me?


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 785 | Registered: Feb 2012
lhhell
♀ Member
Member # 40332
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG this is probably the best question I've seen asked. Sometimes it feels like there's no "broken", just someone who's self-absorbed and selfish. I don't know the answer and I guess it's a case by case basis.

I know my husband is really trying to make things work. It's been a year and a bit and I look at him and all I see is someone who really only cares about what he wants.


Me: BS
Him: WH
Dday: Jan 4, 2013

Posts: 52 | Registered: Aug 2013
Howie
♂ Member
Member # 41922
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are many reasons and more excuses.People, the circumstance differ. You have covered many of the angles in a thoughtful post.There is a universe of motives, some "perps" are deeply damaged at the level of self-esteem. Others have issues in the marriage- bad sex,for instance. Whatever. 15 years later, I still struggle with "why?"
To give my opinion, yes some do it for the pure fun.The thrill, a new partner, the high of the drama. Entertainment .My wife said she enjoyed-get this-the identity of being an adulteress.Sorta a hero, a spy, a star. Oh yes. We are talking extreme selfishness. As she said "if you don't know and feel no real difference in the relationship- you aren't being hurts, are you?" Does that answer the question? best-

Posts: 183 | Registered: Jan 2014
Lovedyoumore
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Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would say carrying on a 15 year A would indicate some brokenness. The long term deceit does not indicate a healthy individual with a healthy mentality. The length of the A shows that your H definitely got something good from it or he would have ended it earlier. The brokenness comes into play due to the fact he had to have an A to find that satisfaction rather find it in his "real" life.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1527 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*broken* could be one of those words that has a different meaning to different people. Its also a word that can be used as a excuse.

*you cant blame me for what I did because Im broken*

EVERYONE has FOO issues. EVERYONE is selfish. But not everyone cheats.

It could be that it comes down to entitlement. *I matter more than you do* and *my happiness is more important than any pain you may feel*

Opportunity.
Can get away with it.
Wanted to do it.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
hummingbird8
♀ Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My opinion is unpopular and I was the BS. Divorced and happily remarried now.

I think there are people who are just serial cheaters. They will cheat because they can no matter who they are with. They have multiple partners and have cheated multiple times in the past.

Then I think there are those who choose the "cowards way out" and have issues in the marriage that they have talked with the BS about and nothing has changed. Whether it's they don't want to lose time with kids, split money or whatever, they truly want out of the marriage but instead they cheat. I think they will cheat maybe once maybe multiple times then will leave and could possibly be happy and faithful to someone else.

I think most people have some brokenness not necessarily from abuse. Some cheat, some overeat, some abuse alcohol, some are in denial.

I personally don't believe every affair is from fog, brokenness or whatever. But I think it depends on past behavior and the behavior when they cheated.


Posts: 507 | Registered: Aug 2009
AFrayedKnot
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Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If there was integrity, meaning no brokenness, there would be no reason to lie or hide anything. They would be able to communicate their wants and needs and allow others to let them be filled or not and decide whether to keep those people in their life or not.

Brokenness is doing something you shouldn't do and hiding it. If someone truely believes in their heart and soul they should be doing something then there is never a reason to hide it.

The brokenness is really abandoning themselves.


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2635 | Registered: Aug 2012
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think there are many reasons. As far as "brokenness" goes, I don't know if one can decide a person is broken if the only sign they see is an affair. I would suspect that a broken person shows that in other aspects of their life. I will say that, in my case, I knew my husband was broken but loved him and was there for him. When he chose to cheat, I realized his brokenness was more than I could handle.


Posts: 5629 | Registered: Jul 2002
SeanFLA
♂ Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then I think there are those who choose the "cowards way out" and have issues in the marriage that they have talked with the BS about and nothing has changed.

What this doesn't address is the ones that cheat but have never said they weren't happy to begin with. Either there wasn't anything really wrong in the marriage or they struggled in silence. My exWW tried to pass the later on to me said she hadn't loved me in years when I found out. Yet I have cards, presents, verbal declarations where she told me all the way up to Dday that she loved me. She never showed any sign of pulling away from.

Much of mine was due to her ego centered around a job unfortunately. Her head got too big and she used it as an exit affair. At first she was devastated she could do such a thing and actually get caught. But once the reality set in she figured she would let me take whatever it was I needed and divorced me. But I do know from quitting MC after four sessions once the MC told her that having an A is extremely selfish, she quit and basically ran to someone who would tell her she was a good person and yes it was my fault. I'd still like to get a hold of the IC who told her that and challenge his license.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
unfound
♀ Member
Member # 12802
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a believer that everyone is broken to some degree. It's how that brokenness manifests itself that is the difference. Why people with the same brokenness deal with it, react to it and cope with it etc differently is something I don't know.

I think a sense of entitlement, selfishness and so on is a form of being broken, regardless of whether or not youre born into it, or it's a learned (forcibly or accepted) way of being.

It's never an excuse as there's this free will and choice thing that we all have (as adults), broken or not. To me, it's when we deny/ignore/discount our brokenness that it can manifest itself into hurtful things, not only to others, but to ourselves as well.

jm2cents


ka-mai
*******************
From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity. DK

Posts: 14861 | Registered: Nov 2006 | From: mercury's underboob
hummingbird8
♀ Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sean my ex would have those same letters, cards etc. That doesn't mean I also didn't tell him or that he didn't know we had major issues and I was unhappy. I would tell him all the time how unhappy I was with certain things, but if you would ask him "we" were happy because he was happy. When he cheated I left.

I think it's rare that someone doesn't bring up the things that are bothering them. Not unheard of but rare. Whether it's in the middle of a fight and someone says you don't have sex with me enough, or you don't put effort into planning things for the two of us.

A week before I left my ex I was trying my hardest get over his affair and make our marriage work. It took one small thing to push me over the edge and I was done.


Posts: 507 | Registered: Aug 2009
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If there was integrity, meaning no brokenness, there would be no reason to lie or hide anything. ..........If someone truely believes in their heart and soul they should be doing something then there is never a reason to hide it...............
The brokenness is really abandoning themselves.

I hadn't looked at it this way. When I use the word 'integrity' I use it in terms of one's honesty, trustworthiness, sense of fairness etc. But of corse it can be used to describe a structure, a building, a bridge. When its integrity is compromised, it is unreliable, unsafe, not firm and strong, in essence, broken.


It's never an excuse as there's this free will and choice thing that we all have (as adults), broken or not. To me, it's when we deny/ignore/discount our brokenness that it can manifest itself into hurtful things, not only to others, but to ourselves as well.


Really good replies. You people are so smart.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 785 | Registered: Feb 2012
Charity411
♀ Member
Member # 41033
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It took me years after my divorce to realize I was the broken one. He's the one that cheated, and this is in no way letting him off the hook for that, but time and distance has put it in perspective for me.

You see, now that I'm honest with myself, I knew he was a cheater when I married him. Things didn't always add up.

When I met him (on the phone because we worked for the same company in different states) he was going through a divorce. So was I. Funny but my divorce was final way before his was even though he started a lot earlier. Then there was the illegally sublet rent controlled apartment in NY he was living in that had been the apartment of a particularly bombshell co-worker. In reality, I believe he left his first wife for the co-worker, moved into her apartment and then she found someone else and he stayed in the apartment and she left. I know because I heard rumors of their affair. But I chose not to believe it. I chose not to see it. I chose to believe his story that his nurse wife had an affair with a doctor. I'm a smart lady by everyone's account, but I checked my intelligence at the door when confronted with charm, flattery and passionate sex.

In fairness, he didn't really try all that hard to hide who he was. I re-imagined him to be what I needed. Disney Imagineers have nothing on me. We would never have lasted. Our value systems were polar opposites. He had no problem cheating on taxes, buying drugs and other stuff I couldn't live with. I was the church going bible camp cook. I saw this all before I married him but I looked away and married him anyway.

So if I'm going to call him broken, I have to own the title for myself too. I've come to understand that no one can do anything to us that we don't to some degree let them do.


Posts: 389 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Illinois
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've come to understand that no one can do anything to us that we don't to some degree let them do.

How do we allow them to cheat on us? Should we keep them locked up in handcuffs? Should we leave the house with them every time they leave? Do we never leave the house alone? Can you explain yourself a little better?


Posts: 5629 | Registered: Jul 2002
Charity411
♀ Member
Member # 41033
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm talking about my situation. He would have cheated no matter what. He was a cheater when I married him and I knew it and married him anyway. So I in effect allowed this to happen to me by choosing to ignore the facts that were right there in front of me. I was catching him in lies but I wanted to believe him. I'm just being perfectly honest about my situation. He's still a scum but I was stupid. That certainly wouldn't apply to everyone. It just does to me.

He's not the only bad choice I made. In my very next relationship I did the exact same thing. Because I had been dumped and ripped off by my husband and his girlfriend I felt like an utter unattractive unlovable failure. So when the town bad boy that would never settle down in a million years hit on me, I went for it. I was going to prove I was so lovable that I could actually make the player settle down. That didn't work too well either.

So I guess what I am saying is that it really wasn't all my ex's fault. I have to take some responsibility for my own bad choices. I tried to make him into something he wasn't and that never works.


Posts: 389 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Illinois
Uhtred
♂ Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fighting Back,

I have had this conversation verbatim with my wife. She grew up in a good home with problems like we all did. Hell my crib had lead base paint on it too!

Through doing IC she has realized that her mom was controlling but loving and her dad was a workaholic that didn't pay her much attention. Now all of the blame for the affair has been shifted to this and I hate it.

She told me she told her affair partner that she was happy with me and didn't know why she was doing this. I said perhaps because you were just being a slut? Why does there always have to be a reason?

I'm fed up with all the foo excuses. My mother was killed when I was four (we were both in an auto accident). I grew up without a mother until my step mom came along and she was a far cry from a mother at the time. Does that give me an excuse to say I need female attention and go have an affair? Hell no it doesn't.

It appears to me that counselor's like to lead people down these roads of all kinds of foo. Why can't someone just say you made a sorry choice and your a sorry excuse for a human being? That would be mean and hurt their wittle feewings I guess!


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 616 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
Melian40
♀ Member
Member # 41205
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They are broken because they don't ADMIT that there is a problem in the M or in themselves.
They are broken because they don't try to solve this problem with their spouses.
They are broken because they LIE even when you catch them. They lie to you and to themselves.
They are broken because they don't stop and think "how would I feel if I were in the shoes of my BS?'
They are broken because they don't have the guts to end the marriage when they feel no love for their spouses.
They are broken because they waste your time and withhold the CHOICE the BS could have to move on with their lives.
You can't fix a broken man, but he can break you.

You might as well consider this a little vent.


BW-me:40
BH-him:41
DD-age 9
Together 7 years, married 17 years
DD1:8/12/2013 -OW1-PA 1.5 months in 2009
DD2:8/17/2013 - OW2-EA Spring 2013- He tried to hit on her but she denied.

"You can't fix a broken man, but he can break you"


Posts: 209 | Registered: Nov 2013
Vulcanized
♀ Member
Member # 33523
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think so.

I was broken, in that I knew he cheated right before the wedding. Rather than confront, I just buried it and convinced myself that I was mistaken.

Later in the M, I knew he was having an A w/my 'friend'. I couldn't get any concrete proof, but my gut was screaming. I talked to my BFF, who told me I was crazy. I let BFF talk me out of something I knew to be true.

There were numerous issues I back down from or completely ignored b/c I thought XH wouldn't be able to deal w/. Obviously, there was something wrong in me that I'd live like that for close to 10 years.

As for XH, he's a virtual cauldron of dysfunction. Drug issues, alcohol issues, cheating issues, self esteem issues, etc, etc, etc. His solution is to wallow in self-destructive behaviour. I tried numerous times (pre DD) to get him to get some therapy, and he flat out refused. According to him, he didn't need it, but I sure did!

I think a sense of entitlement, selfishness and so on is a form of being broken, regardless of whether or not youre born into it, or it's a learned (forcibly or accepted) way of being.

Exactly. I don't know which is worse, the inability to see these things in yourself or the refusal to do anything about them.

I think everyone is screwed up one way or another. It's a matter of being passive and not doing anything to change it or at least making the effort to better yourself.


Me: MH 40s; Him: MH 40s (I had RA)
OW: 30s, moron; one of many
M: 8 yrs
3/13: D'd
-----------------------------------------------------------
Everything is as it should be.

Posts: 766 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Vulcania
whattheh
♀ Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been pondering this too lately.

I too am tired of people being given outs for doing bad things like they had no control or couldn't help it. Many of us have suffered the same or worse and we didn't cheat.

Cheating for my fWH was very unexpected even by him. He definitely betrayed himself and his own moral code. And he is very ashamed of what he did.

I don't feel he is broken. But I do feel he lost his integrity and his authentic self when he cheated and lied about things.

Sometimes I wonder if there is evil or negative energy in the world which finds its way into some people for awhile. Not religious but I experienced a vision where Jesus told me I could trust the man in front of me now. And my fWH experienced a vision of a demon creature floating up to him in the room after dDay and he spoke out loud to it telling to get lost. We were both awake and neither of us is religious. Maybe we imagined these things separately but its not like us so who know?

[This message edited by whattheh at 5:18 PM, February 6th (Thursday)]


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 569 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, February 6th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the only way to have an A is if you are broken.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Topic Posts: 46
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