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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Judgment in Replies??
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Cool  Posted: 11:06 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DS, upon reading your OP again I noticed you referenced the two-month time frame. In addition to the influx of new WS's, IMO another factor behind the more volatile climate in Wayward, about which both you and AN (https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/text.forums.asp?tid519253) have recently made similar observations, could be the departure of several vets. Even though I don't know why they left, nor do I question your (collective) decision, the absence of TG, HL & UO has left a void.

Going back to Cornbread's example. Every single Wayward who posted on Disastergirl's thread was a "New Member" with fewer than 50 posts. Don't get me wrong, the member with 45 posts is just as valuable to SI as one with 4500. But when we're first facing our demons, it's easier to project and displace onto others, than to look at ourselves. Thus the heightened sensitivity to being judged or attacked. Speaking from my anecdotal observations, and personal experience because I was *totally* this way...it's quite often the New Member who can dish it out, but can't take it. Totally normal, possibly unavoidable, part of the healing process IMO.

There wouldn't be an SI without the contributions of new and veteran members, and SI doesn't, and shouldn't, depend upon the presence of any individual to thrive. I'm sad that we lost some members whose advice was instrumental to me in my early days, and I miss them. Without their (and many, many others'!) judgmental attacks I wouldn't be where I am today.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1089 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I....don't think that I can add anything that HUFI didn't just say better.

As far as how the newbies sometimes get whacked (both BS and WS alike), I think it really depends on the situation and the 'tone' of the original poster in a particular thread. If the new WS has lurked long enough to spit out all the 'right' words, but still has that vague whiff of entitlement, affair-specialness, and "I-was-driven-to-this-by-a-loveless-marriage", then I think 2x4s are merited and are frequently given...becaue what that attitude calls for is not hugs, but hammers. given. People feel "ganged up on", because the people we have here that have BTDT have mostly arrived to similar viewpoints with the benefit of hindsight, and so the advice sounds similar. That's not a cult, or drinking kool-aid...that's just the collected wisdom of people who have lived in your situation, KWIM?

And it happens on the BS side as well. We see people arrive like weeks to a month after DDAY saying that their WS is 'doing all the right things' and 'showing remorse', and that they are reconciling and have forgiven their WS....only to let slip some info (once they get more comfortable here) that makes it sound like they are not reconciling, but rugsweeping. These people are in some serious hurt and fear, but supressing it and not seeing their situation clearly...those people need 2x4s, too, but it just takes a more gentle form, methinks.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 2001 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been wondering about the same thing that 20wrongs was up thurr.^^^ Like she said, SI doesn't depend upon any individual(s) at any given time, but when there is a departure of longtime vets combined with what seemed to be a big influx of new WS, it seemed like it threw off the 'gene pool', so to speak. At least for a while. Things can, and will, balance out eventually. SI has been around since like 2002, right? I have no doubt that there have been plenty of ebbs and flows and influxes of newbies and clusters of departures. Nothing ever really ends, it just cycles.

Disastergirl's thread was a "New Member" with fewer than 50 posts. Don't get me wrong, the member with 45 posts is just as valuable to SI as one with 4500.
I don't know if I read that thread, but I noticed it in other ones as well. It'd be like one newbie OP, and then one vet valiantly waging a war against (seemingly) every other poster as the voice of reason.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 2001 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
smez
♀ Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a lot of false equivalences. NO ONE is saying that people don't need a reality check sometimes. No one is asking for validation for their affair or what not. Most of the posts are about "I feel x." And instead of coming in and asking WHY...There are a lot of YOU SHOULDN'T statements and here is how you should feel.

There is no single path to healing and if people took the time to actually stop, take a breathe, remember where this person is and then approach them...they might get a lot more success. There is not particular timeline or path to healing. No everyone has the same issues and not ever solution that worked for you is appropriate for someone else.


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is no single path to healing and if people took the time to actually stop, take a breathe, remember where this person is and then approach them...they might get a lot more success.

I guess my question is why should the person offering the advice be the one stopping and taking that breath? If someone comes here for advice it is hopefully because they acknowledge they need help. When I have needed the most help has typically been when I was thinking the least clearly, and that was when that deep breath, pause, and the question of "why am I reacting this way to what is being said?" has been the most beneficial.

That is why I made the comment about validation. Because I've been there, on this site, looking to have my feelings validated without even realizing that is what I was wanting. It was the other BSs who pushed me to look at myself. They didn't lack compassion or understanding quite the opposite they were blunt with me because they understood exactly where I was coming from.

[This message edited by cdnmommy at 12:24 PM, February 8th, 2014 (Saturday)]


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
smez
♀ Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's how you phrase your advice.

You SHOULD...isn't the same as Have you thought about x.

You SHOULDN'T do x isn't the same as How is x helping you forward...

You NEED to do x...

It's all about phrasing. No one is saying don't give advice...it's how you give it.

There are some older vet's that really do a great job of dispensing hard to hear advice in a way that isn't off putting.

Edited to say that HUFI-PUFI is an excellent example of how to give advice. Never one to hold back the truth but does it in a respectful manner!

[This message edited by smez at 12:49 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
LovesLaboursLost
♀ Member
Member # 37272
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

smez,
have you thought about why this bothers you so?


I'm a work in progress.

Posts: 80 | Registered: Oct 2012
isadora
♀ Member
Member # 29130
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why is phrasing so important? No one has the same writing style. Some are more blunt, some ask questions , some give advice on what they think the original poster should do, some posters have a softer touch.

I have been told on my threads what I should do. Doesn't mean I have to do it. Phrasing doesn't bother me. If it bothers you then maybe its something to look at.


Me: BW Him: WH
Married: 10 yrs
4 children: DDs 6&4; DSs 2& baby
2 Affairs - 2010 year long PA/EA, 2008 2 month online EA
Multiple D-Days

I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.


Posts: 4505 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Back home again in Indiana
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20WrongsVs1...

When prominent members leave, you're right, there is a void for a time being...but just like anything else that door continues to revolve and others, like you, step up It's a very natural progression of an online community.

Newbie or veteran member...everyone holds value and adds service to SI


I'm really enjoying this thread everyone!! Thank you to all of you that have taken the time to share


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197011 | Registered: May 2002
smez
♀ Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LovesLaboursLost and isadora,

Yes, I can tell you why it annoys me rather than bothers me. I am rape crisis counselor for both the state of California and New York. I help rape survivors through the process of a hospital visit and I also help man a helpline. In our training we spend a lot of time talking about keeping our own bias and judgements out of our responses. I hear judgement from doctors/police ALL the freaking time. They all think they KNOW what the best advice/path is but often they don't. I apply those principal here. Listen first, think about what is going to productively get through to a person, respect someone who isn't ready to x or y and keep your own issues out of it.

I hope that explains where I am coming from. There are times when I'm dealing with certain clients (domestic abuse victims are a good example) that I don't agree with their choices but me yelling/berating or giving them "tough love" at a point they aren't willing to hear is neither productive or helpful to the process. Sometimes you have to watch people make mistakes and not support them but to be a voice of reason at the bottom.

PS: And I do ignore the advice that isn't helpful and take the parts that are good.

[This message edited by smez at 1:28 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

smez, why should an individual have to edit, censor, or change the way they speak just to appease you? Who says your way is the only right way? Lay off the presentation factor and look at the message. Because everyone is speaking the same message.

If you're from the heart of Cali, do you go to Boston and tell the whole town on megaphone that they need to find a speech therapist to work on their whack accent? No. Does a Georgian go to Canada and tell them they cain't tawlk prawper Englesh? No. Does a Brit come to Kentucky and bash the country folk because Dahling, you are a lowly peasant and therefore cannot possibly know of which you speak? No.

We're all different. Sure we all have different accents and quirks about our speech patterns. Bottom line, it's the same dang language.

You SHOULD...isn't the same as Have you thought about x.

You SHOULDN'T do x isn't the same as How is x helping you forward...

You NEED to do x...


Here's a fun little exercise. When you see "You should" and it grates your nerves, why don't you mentally add in the "Have you thought about"?

Problem solved.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6126 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
smez
♀ Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL...I live abroad so I have an "accent" to everyone. Funny how assumptions work.

I'm not telling anyone how what advice they should give...Give away. Understand that if you can't EFFECTIVELY communicate that message, you are as good as shouting in the wind.

I'm am amused that everyone is up in arms that I suggested that you keep saying your message...just maybe do it a little politer.


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The old adage - don't shoot the messenger - seems to apply here.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1346 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

smez...

For someone that is a counselor, you sure seem to like to argue alot

I'm not reading that anyone is 'up in arms' about your message, I think you've conveyed it just fine


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197011 | Registered: May 2002
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

smez, you seem to see the problem and the solution. But nobody is going to change for you. So why can't you just mentally apply the fix in your mind and be done with it? Why make broad statements that everyone should be nicer or more polite? Cause while you want sunshine and flowers, someone in the corner needs a brick upside the head. Cause it's the only way it'll send a message.

I'm a big mouth. I have heard allllllll my life to lower the volume, shut up, "Are you deaf or something?!". Even when I think I'm quite, someone in the family is still whining about how loud I am.

But you know know what? That's who I am and how I was wired. I cannot change that about me. So they can accept that I'm noisy, or butt out.

Same applies here. Deal with the advice. Read between the lines you deem "impolite" and move on.

JMHO YMMV

[This message edited by Aubrie at 1:53 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6126 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
isadora
♀ Member
Member # 29130
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even if we all exercise proper decorum and politeness, I would hazard to guess that some posters will claim they are being attacked because they don't want to hear the message

When I first started posting, I asked when do I come first. I was struggling with the daily realizations that WH was always choosing OW. I wanted validation. Didn't get it. I was told it stops when you say it does. Was it what I wanted to hear? No but it was what I needed to hear. Took me awhile to understand that.

[This message edited by isadora at 1:58 PM, February 8th (Saturday)]


Me: BW Him: WH
Married: 10 yrs
4 children: DDs 6&4; DSs 2& baby
2 Affairs - 2010 year long PA/EA, 2008 2 month online EA
Multiple D-Days

I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.


Posts: 4505 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Back home again in Indiana
AdamsApple
New Member
Member # 39262
Default  Posted: 3:26 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

smez,

You seem to contradict yourself. You say;

There is no single path to healing..There is not particular timeline or path to healing. No everyone has the same issues and not ever solution that worked for you is appropriate for someone else.

Then you proceed to tell some that they should to be more polite and ask more questions. Just because you respond to a certain style, doesn't mean that everyone does. You said yourself that "there is no single path to healing." So why do you want to change or inhibit other's path to healing?

..and if people took the time to actually stop, take a breathe, remember where this person is and then approach them...they might get a lot more success.

This seems very presumptuous and condescending. How do you know people aren't doing these things? Because they give advice differently than you would?

And lastly, I find it curious that you draw a parallel between how rape victims should be treated and how waywards should treat each other in an infidelity forum. Do you feel, as a wayward, that you are the victim here?


Posts: 34 | Registered: May 2013 | From: United States
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Smez, anyone with half a brain would advocate your approach with dealing with rape victims.

Would you however use the same approach with the rapist?


Do you feel, as a wayward, that you are the victim here?

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ needs some serious pondering on your part.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 382 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even if we all exercise proper decorum and politeness, I would hazard to guess that some posters will claim they are being attacked because they don't want to hear the message.

So true! This can apply to every type of member we have. I'm vehemently in agreement with this, I think due in large part to realizing that I'm totally guilty of this from time to time. Oh man.


If you can't learn to enjoy your life when you have problems, you may never enjoy it because we'll always have problems. - Joyce Meyer

Posts: 16807 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would you however use the same approach with the rapist?
I think this is an important distinction. The WS comes here as the perpetrator of the crime of infidelity, first and foremost. So, at least at first (and longer if the fog persists) all the attention is paid to the infidelity specifically. However, I have never seen a WS who wanted to open and honestly discuss FOO issues, or CSAB, or anything else, be shut down and shouted down, provided the issue was not brought up as an excuse in the context of the crime as infidelity.

Meaning, the wayward forum is about (in my observation, anyway) being a wayward spouse first and foremost, and discussing all the other stuff second. So when a WS strolls in saying "I know my BS had nothing to do with my affair..." and then jumps straight into marriage problems A, B, and C, some of the wayward vets redirect their focus...some newbies are more receptive than others, and some display significant pushback, to which the vets respond accordingly.

I read the other thread that was discussed upthread, and that person had a ONS previously, and then an online EA, and refused to tell her husband about either, assuming I'm not mistaken.

Hell, you can lurk here for one hour and be able to know that refusing to tell your BS about your affair(s) is going to be a non-starter for most people, resulting in a flurry of 2x4s at the very least. I mean, honesty with your spouse is the bare minimum for living in a healthy marriage, and if newbies can't (or refuse) to even meet that low, low bar for entry into a serious discussion with most everyone here, I don't know how they would expect to move forward with seeking out help here, you know? That's not saying that they shouldn't stick around, because they should, because maybe some of it will absorb eventually....but I don't know how a person could expect to go against the advice of nearly all of a forum of their peers and not get some pushback, you know?


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 2001 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
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