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User Topic: Understanding 180
Patchy
♀ Member
Member # 39228
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, so I started a thread yesterday, in regard to my WS triggering when he touches me, not being in love with me, saying he wants to go to IC, but then never EVER going, that he thinks if we could just be friends again he'd fall in love with me and his triggers of her will fade over time.

I got many replies, all pretty much saying the same thing. That I deserve more, that my BS is not ready to own his shit, that I need to 180.

Thank you, by the way, to all who posted. I basically agree with everything everyone said, and have been trying to figure out how, exactly, to proceed.

I read the 180 list a year ago when it didn't seem to apply to me. And before reading it again yesterday, while I was on my way to work, I was in such turmoil and came to a possible conclusion.

I discussed with my friend the possibility of a temporary separation. My thinking was to rattle his cage and basically make him take action . . . make him see a counselor if he wanted me to come back. (Leaving for what turned out to be only a few hours was how I got him to read a flippin book a while back.) But then, as my friend pointed out, that's just controlling him like I already tried to do by giving him a deadline in the first place to make an appointment, which turned out badly. The whole mommy/child dynamic, which she was extremely familiar with in her own marriage. She was codependent and believes I am, and was trying to shift my thinking in how to handle things. I don't want to treat him like a child and simply control him. So what to do instead?

Her advice was that whatever action I take, it should be for me. For my happiness, peace, etc. My boundary, my whatever you want to call it. If he chooses to take responsibility because of it, then that's his choice, but it's not my top priority. My top priority is taking care of me regardless of what he does as a consequence. So I thought Ö leaving my kids, even for a day or two, is not in my best interest Ö or theirs. It would devastate them, which in turn would devastate me. I may decide it is necessary in the future but right now, I'm just not there. However, moving into the extra bedroom in our house is something I'm now considering. Removing myself from his bed, and making a statement that I'm not going to be in it as long as he is not in love with me, Ö and not just until he makes an appointment to see a counselor (as the short term separation was going to be). It would be a place I can go to take refuge and have peace. My personal space. My place to NOT lie next to him in the dark at night fighting tears. It's not like we have sex anyway, so it's not even a consequence to him in that way. But it's a big way to say that I'm not okay with how things are and that things are not going to continue as they have been. I'm here for the kids and we can still do things as a family, but he doesn't get to live daily life without a huge awareness that things are not "normal" at home. And they won't be until he deals with his shit.

This brings up the whole 180 thing which, if I'm not mistaken, goes along nicely with everything I just said. I read the 180 list after I came up with the moving to a new bedroom plan. And yet today, the more I think about it, it does make me wonder if I should simply implement 180 and see how it goes before taking the bigger step of removing myself from the bedroom. By the way, I do have an appointment with my counselor, who I haven't seen in several months, to discuss all of this. So I'll get her input as well.

But I guess that's the first question I have. What are your thoughts on moving to a different room? I know in the end, it's my choice over how much of a stance I feel I need to take immediately. The 180 thing seems like a slow progression before any realization will hit him . . . even though in many ways I've already been implementing parts of it.

But my second question is in regard to the "no scheduling dates" thing. If the ultimate goal is for him to fall back in love with me, how is he supposed to do that if I won't even go on a date with him? I get separating myself from him. I get the distancing myself emotionally, living my own life. it just so happens I started working part time recently (after being a stay at home mom for 22 years), and registered for college classes that start in a couple of weeks in order to have an actual career Ö. BIG changes and definitely an excellent start toward the 180 thing. And I feel I'm at a place, as of today even, that I can emotionally distance myself and not be on the verge of tears so often. He's going to do whatever he's going to do and I'm living my life and have a plan for my future with or without him in it.

Anyway, can someone explain the not dating thing? I have a friend who separated from her husband for several months and was ready for divorce. A 180 in the strictest sense. She wasn't remotely in love with him anymore. But it forced him to start working on his issues and was persistent in winning her back. They started going on dates together and fell in love all over again and she eventually moved back in. So I get how separation can help a marriage. And I generally get how a 180 would help. But of everything on the list, I think I'm most confused about this one.

For instance, a week ago a friend invited us to a wine bottling party that is tonight. He was debating about going with me, and my new self might not have even told him about it. I might have just gone alone. But I had already invited him and my friend's husband was hoping he was coming and all. Well, I found out today that he is planning to go. Ultimately, I know he's going for me, to be with me, to "date" me, because I know he's not real excited to hang out with the people that will be there. And just this week I talked about doing more things with couples together. We basically lost all our couple friends because of the affair and other reasons, so he has his friends and I have mine and we don't really do anything with other friends together.

And yet now I'm supposed to say "you can't go with me"? And, in fact, I'm just not going to date you? When he asks me to go out to dinner, just he and I, am I supposed to say no? To a movie? Do we just never do anything alone? Please someone explain this to me and what I'm supposed to say to him. Everything else on the list doesn't really require me to "explain' myself. But this one kind of does and I have no clue what to say and am foggy and why the rule is there to begin with.

Thanks so much. And, again, thanks to all who replied to my post yesterday. I'm in a much better place mentally because of it.


Me BS 44
Him FWS 45
Married 23 Years
DDay 1 July 2012
DDay 2 Christmas Day 2013 same woman
EA with kissing, very strong bond and talk of leaving spouses for each other.

Posts: 93 | Registered: May 2013
joeboo
♂ Member
Member # 31089
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, February 7th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First of all, sorry for your pain. Secondly, I get the impression that you are wondering how 180 will help you win him back. One of the biggest challenges I had for several months was trying to figure our what exactly 180 meant and how it would help my M. What I have found was that the primary goal to 180 had nothing to do with my M, R, or D. It was all about me learning how to recover from this mess we call infidelity. IMO, 180 is not a tool used to fix a relationship, it is a tool first to help you cope, then to help you heal. It would appear as if sometimes in some cases, 180 was enough of a shocker to the WS that it would cause them to consider the actual possibility of losing their BS.

I wish you well in your endeavor to repair your relationship, but you might consider using the right tool for the job. 180 for emergency repair of self, IC for the development of healthy self-esteem (among other self improvement), and MC for the development of M.

My apologies if I've misunderstood your questions. I still wish you well.


Posts: 1208 | Registered: Feb 2011
Patchy
♀ Member
Member # 39228
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your reply. As I understand 180, both from this site and others, it is primarily about you being independent and moving on with your life with our without your WS. I get that and I'm totally at that place. But I also desire reconciliation with my husband and, if me doing a 180 causes him to desire me more (as stated in the list), and therefore causes him to want to do whatever it takes to fix things, then how do I not let him take me on a date? If I didn't want reconciliation I'd just divorce him. I do want reconciliation. I'm just not willing to mope around anymore waiting for him to get his act together. I can see a life without him and that I would be okay in that scenario, but it's not my desire.

Here's a post someone said on the subject on another forum.

From my perspective...the 180 does both at the same time. It both can cause the WS to take action to change and repair the marriage, and it can prepare the BS for life without the WS.

That's the beauty of it...it's a multipurpose tool.

I would love to use MC. He won't go with me. I do go to IC. I would love for him to go to IC, but his words that say he'll go and his actions, or lack thereof, to go is the whole entire thing that brought me to 180.

So that's where I'm at. I'm leaning toward not moving to another room, but just further implementing 180. As I mentioned before, I'm seeing my IC this week and will talk all this over with her. It's been a while since I saw her. Last we spoke, he and I had scheduled a MC appointment. But he backed out and that was the end of that.

Thanks again for your post. I appreciate your thoughts and they do make me think more in depth about the purpose of 180.


Me BS 44
Him FWS 45
Married 23 Years
DDay 1 July 2012
DDay 2 Christmas Day 2013 same woman
EA with kissing, very strong bond and talk of leaving spouses for each other.

Posts: 93 | Registered: May 2013
Dreamboat
♀ Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your WS is not ready to heal and not ready to help you heal. Nothing that you do or say on a date will help him "fall back in love with you" if HE has not started to heal. So going on a date will him will just hurt you more in the end because it will change nothing so it will be a setback. At least until he has started to heal himself.

You use 180 to detach from a broken person so you can heal on your own. As long as he is broken, you stay detached. You might even explain to him that you cannot handle being hurt by him anymore and so you need to distance yourself from him so you can heal on your own. That you are not ready to give up on the M, but right now you need to do this for yourself. And that at some point if you see a change in him that you will consider being vulnerable with him again, but until he has started to fix his brokenness that you cannot take the chance of being vulnerable because you are scared of getting hurt again. Saying something like that is not giving him an ultimatum and is trying to control him. It is about YOU and what is best for YOU, and right now he is not what is best for you.

HTH and (((hugs)))


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17605 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
Skan
♀ Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Patchy, you don't have the power to control your WH. You couldn't control him seeking out the same woman twice to mess around with, you can't control him to get him to go to counseling, and you can't control his decision to love you, to not love you, to be present for you, or to just be a body taking up space in the house.

The only person that you can control is yourself. So that's where your focus needs to be.

whatever action I take, it should be for me. For my happiness, peace, etc. My boundary, my whatever you want to call it. If he chooses to take responsibility because of it, then that's his choice, but it's not my top priority. My top priority is taking care of me regardless of what he does as a consequence.

That advice is bang-on. YOU need to be your priority. You need to detach from your WH so that you can gain clarity on what YOU need, what you want, and which way to go to seek your ultimate health and happiness. This is what the 180 is for. Nothing else. If you use the 180 as a way to try to force your WH to do what you want him to do, then all you are doing is locking yourself into an unhealthy, life-long pattern of you withdrawing, him making the most minimal gesture towards you, you taking him back, him easing back into his old habits until you withdraw again. Because youíre not seeking your ultimate health. Youíre playing push me-pull you, hard to get with your WH with all of your attention focused on what heís going to do/not do next. Sorta like that teen aged girl pretending to not notice the cute guy she wants so desperately to notice her.

Is this really how you want to live out the rest of your life?

Detach, boot him out of the bedroom, and start finding your health. Either he will make changes and show you long, consistent actions that make him a healthy partner or he wonít. You canít control that. Your job is to get healthy for you and for your kids. You want to go somewhere? Go. He can figure out if heís going or not not your job. He doesnít get to play Happy Family Man while heís got his head stuck up his rear end and you donít enable him to fake it. (((hugs)))


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4551 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, February 8th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If anyone needs to leave the bedroom, it's him. Not you. HE needs to be moved to the guest bedroom.

That much you can control.

As for the rest? You're grasping at straws, Hon. The 180 is for you to heal. For you to detach from your unhealthy thoughts and start forming new, healthy thoughts. If a side effect is that your WH sees the light, that's great. But the 180 isn't for the WH. It's for the BS.

It wouldn't matter what you do on a date or otherwise. You could give him the most magical of blowjobs that would have him blowing bubbles out his butthole from pleasure & delight. If his heart isn't right, then your relationship will disappear along with the bubbles.

I'm so sorry. This is a long, hellish road.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9234 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Patchy
♀ Member
Member # 39228
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, February 10th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Thank you for all your replies. They are very helpful.

You use 180 to detach from a broken person so you can heal on your own. As long as he is broken, you stay detached. You might even explain to him that you cannot handle being hurt by him anymore and so you need to distance yourself from him so you can heal on your own. That you are not ready to give up on the M, but right now you need to do this for yourself. And that at some point if you see a change in him that you will consider being vulnerable with him again, but until he has started to fix his brokenness that you cannot take the chance of being vulnerable because you are scared of getting hurt again. Saying something like that is not giving him an ultimatum and is trying to control him. It is about YOU and what is best for YOU, and right now he is not what is best for you.

This is it in a nutshell. On the 180 page it doesn't explain it like this. It doesn't really explain it all . . . the "whys" of it, so it made it confusing to fully understand. I've been distancing myself a lot from him lately, not just because of 180 but because it's just painful to be around him. He's confused because he's trying, in his feeble way, to connect with me. Wonders if I'm done with him. But thinking of 180 this way, specifically in regard to his brokenness and my ability to cope with it, is very helpful.

He did call a counselor, three actually, on Saturday. Today is Monday, so I'm guessing one, two or all three called him back, but I don't know how any of that went. He hasn't told me and I haven't asked. I do know he went to Starbucks to talk with a friend. Meaning real "talking". Maybe they talked about which counselor to go with. I don't know, but I am encouraged that he is finally taking some sort of action. Crossing my fingers he follows through . . . and then keeps following through as it gets even tougher.

I just found an old email I sent a friend last March where I quoted him as saying, "I miss kissing you." Because at that time I was the one pulling away because of triggers. Since then it's all him. i wouldn't even know if I'd trigger from kissing him because I have no opportunity.

But it seems to be saying something that he actually missed kissing me. Unless that was a lie. Cause now he's saying he always triggered. So confusing. Hopefully a counselor can help him sort it out before any of it affects me anymore.

Thanks again.


Me BS 44
Him FWS 45
Married 23 Years
DDay 1 July 2012
DDay 2 Christmas Day 2013 same woman
EA with kissing, very strong bond and talk of leaving spouses for each other.

Posts: 93 | Registered: May 2013
Topic Posts: 7

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