It was entirely uncomfortable for me because I wasn't sure what I was going to hear, and I was scared.
It started with some thing I didnt really want to hear and moved into things that made me smile even though I dont want to admit it. He told me that he always thinks about me. Emphasis on the always. Also that I am the only person he wants to have children with. Also said he wants to come visit me......... will let me know when he can make it here. .....
The entire time I suppressed my emotions, I used to have the problem of being "TOO" emotional, unable to control my emotions. Needless to say, I was extremely reserved...... I didnt let my anger nor my happiness show through......
I am still scared, worried that this is giving me false hope, etc. I am asking for any advice anyone can give me of where to go from here. ?????????
I feel like I am going to throw up, so much for getting any little bit of sleep I used to tonight........
"A tree falls the way it leans.....be careful which way you lean"
I see your start date is very recent....I am going to assume your DD is fairly recently due to this singular fact. Read this with that in mind.
Always and never are flag words to me. WS are very good at manipulation....at controlling. Upon DD my wife displayed exceptional skills at this. Tie this to my co-dependent nature as well as MC and Pastoral advice that played nicely into her hand....and I witnessed my wife very intentionally take her EA and move it quickly into the PA realm....the whole time telling me things like
I would NEVER do anything to hurt our girls.
Upon DD my wife was quick to find regret. The type of regret a kid has when he gets caught with a hand in the cookie jar. He is sorry he got caught, he really enjoyed the cookie he just ate, and he is already planning on how to get more cookies.
I think it a rare WS that finds true remorse upon or near WS...it does happen, but not often.
It sounds like you separated upon or shortly after your DD....because of your comments of he wants to come visit you.
This tells me you are healthier than I was upon my DD. I think it a very prudent step to kick the WS out from the home they so willingly left as they chose adultery.
To get to my point.....
TT is most likely a part of your experience. What I witnessed from my wife was her expressing some truth but then it scared her....so she left out some harder truths. Then it scared her because she couldn't reason why she did what she did anymore....couldn't answer to HERSELF, let alone me.
I suspect your husband is doing some of both. This doesn't mean it is D time....just means he is, at some level, trying to reach out to you. I would recommend accepting these attempts with a grain of salt. Don't rebuff him, but don't go running in and consoling him....I did that and it had dreadful results for me.
Keep finding ways that help you grow, that comfort you, and keep on eye on your motivations behind your actions. If there is even a hint that what you are doing is tied to manipulation of HIM in anyway....stop doing it.
God be with us all.
(((hugs))) I know there's tons going through your mind.
The truth is you don't know if he is saying the truth or trying to keep you on the hook.
The only thing you can do is give it time and watch.
Remember actions not words.
What is he doing "to figure things out"? Is he in IC? Is he doing any healing?
Consistent, loving actions...over a long period of time. It's the only way to find the truth.
Always and never are flag words to me.
Since you separated it is probably not possible to discern how he conducted introspection....or IF he did.
Having NOT separated I witnessed my wife's reluctance to look inside after DD. You already know she chose to continue in infidelity and took it to adultery after DD#1.
I also witnessed her choices to avoid accepting responsibility, compose documents that justified her affair, express hateful, hurtful statements towards me, and generally choose to either ignore the wounds within her or rewrite history to lessen the truth.
Ultimately, my wife did allow the light of truth in....that is when I noticed her finding some courage to face some feelings and hurts she had hid for most of her life. For us I would guess this was 7-10 months post DD.
Having not separated it is impossible to know if separation speeds up, slows down, or has zero net affect on this part of a WS's journey. Highly person-specific.
My parents D'ed 30 years ago. My Dad has never displayed to me that he ever searched out his "whys". My Mom, up until about a year ago, chose similarly. Part of my moms change of heart has been due to witnessing what we are doing in our M.
Back to your post.....evaluate your husbands actions. They will trump any words he chooses....so don't focus to much on the words.
IC has helped me see I was not as ignorant as I thought I was pre-A. I picked up on my wife's destructive actions....sought out a counselor to work with me on anxiety issues. Problem was I never considered adultery as an option for my wife.
IC helped me understand that I had no role in my wife's decision to commit adultery. That I was an okay husband....has improvement areas but not the person my wife tried to make me out to be during her A . To be sure, she was skilled at deception, was subtle in phrasing words towards me to appear to NOT blame me or use me to justify her actions....but I picked up on them even then.
I have been seasoned by this experience....am confident I will better discern the actions of my wife...and am more bold to question what is going on. You are too.
Actually, you started out from a better footing than I did. This bodes well for your future.
With regards to the future of our respective marriages....we only control half of that relationship.
Have you determined if adultery is a deal breaker for you? No rush.....I got into a "well, I'm not divorcing" mode for a while.....was the best I could do.
God be with you.
Blakesteele, and those that mentioned it, I feel you are right about the words and actions thing...... I will see if he actually comes up and when/if he does I will go from there......
To answer your question about adultery, To be honest I guess its not a deal breaker for me AS LONG as things are fixed and there is no repeating........ I got married knowing there are ups and downs in a marriage and sometimes very difficult things come your way and I never planned to "give up". I too come from divorced parents and I think going through that so young and seeing the way my mom was treated after D I take marriage very very very very seriously! And I know that sounds silly to mention, but I mention it because there are many that get married with the "easy way out" meaning D in mind. They think oh well if things dont work out I'll just D.
Well I am very old school when it comes to marriage (even though Im in my late 20's). Its just how I feel.
CantLoseHope - It started with some thing I didn't really want to hear and moved into things that made me smile even though I don't want to admit it. He told me that he always thinks about me. Emphasis on the always. Also that I am the only person he wants to have children with. Also said he wants to come visit me... will let me know when he can make it here.
During their affairs, honest people learn to lie and liars learn to sound honest.
I too want to raise some red flags about your WS. The point to remember is that words are cheap. Words are easy. Actions however demand a commitment of time and money. Without verifiable action, its just pretty words and pretty words are the tools of a wayward spouse.
He says, he is going to be a better person but going to IC is a concrete action that supports those words. Is he doing this?
He says he thinks of you but is he writing letters to you about his healing process? Is he talking to you on the phone about feelings, fears, worries and his deepest darkest secrets? Or are most of your talks about the day to day things still?
He says that he wants to have children with you but have you verified beyond a doubt that there is no second AP? How can he prove to you that he is faithful if he is not living with you and talking to you and sharing his life with you?
He says that he wants to visit you (and be intimate, you mentioned in another post) and I wonder, is his visit to you just about cake eating or is it truly because he wants to spend time with you talking about the A and what steps he is currently talking to support your marriage? When he comes to visit, is he making plans and arrangements to see MC with you?
And while I don't want to pry, what did he say that you didn't want to hear? It could be that one particular statement is the key to understanding his motives and his intent. Hard to say as your post doesn't give details.
CantLoseHope - I am still scared, worried that this is giving me false hope, etc. I am asking for any advice anyone can give me of where to go from here.
Don't let blind hope sweep you away. Be pragmatic and practical. Blind trust is what hurt you last time so verification is most important. Let your gut instinct guide you here. If your feeling scared, then you may be picking up on those subtle vibes that tell you that his words are not matching his actions. Listen to that gut feeling.
I think you need to read up on the 180 and put it in practice. You can find information on it in the healing library. I feel you need to take charge of your own life and stop letting his actions control you.
Anon - You can close your eyes from the things you donít want to see but you can never close your heart from the things you donít want to feel.
[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 11:52 AM, February 12th (Wednesday)]
CantLoseHope - To be honest I guess its not a deal breaker for me AS LONG as things are fixed and there is no repeating.
Gently said ... but are things fixed? Has your H really and truly found out his why and addressed those issues with IC? Is he truly remorseful for his affair or is he simply sorry for getting caught? There is a huge difference between regret and remorse.
And truly, hasn't he repeated his affair in a manner of speaking with the second OW?
I don't want to put you on the spot but it seems that your holing onto a image of a marriage that doesn;t exit anymore. Perhaps you need to let go of the rose colored stand by your man glasses and get a pair of "i am strong and can do it on my own" glasses.
Getting divorced is not always a failure. Sometimes, it takes more strength and courage and self-actualization to move forward with D that it does to simply stay in a bad marriage .
And I am not going to down play a big step for us, but I am also not going to lie to myself thinking this proves anything..... What happens from here on will prove it or disprove it.
CantLoseHope - although I do appreciate your honesty..... I don't entirely appreciate some of your assumptions.
CLH, I am sorry that my post made you feel uncomfortable.
First and foremost, you need to understand that I am a WS. I've been the lying, cheating and deceiving husband so I know something about betrayal, confession, remorse and regret and yes, reconciliation too.
Before making my replies, I did read your posts and thought that I had a fairly good grasp of your story. I was quite aware that you had been separated for a year and in fact, you posted several times asking whether or not a separation of one year would seem to indicate that R was off the table. It also seemed to me that the OW is somehow still in the picture and possibly a pregnancy. If you recall, on Feb 7, just a few days ago, you posted that " My WS has been on the fence the whole time in regards to R" and in part, I used that statement as a starting point in my reply. If I was wrong in my assumption, then thanks for the correction.
With all that said, in truth, my replies are not meant to make you comfortable.
Seriously, I am not looking to give you some touchy feelie pat on the back and a proverbial "it'll be alright" hug.
I want you to feel challenged. I want my posts to stir up thinking. I want to challenge your thinking process. I want you to see another side of hte equation. I want you to dig deeper into your thinking and feeling and really make your choices from a position of inner strength and clear conviction.
If my words make you uncomfortable, then please consider it in light of the following quote.
wincings_sparkle - If it hurts, it is something worth looking at. If it makes you angry, it is something worth looking at. If it makes you cry, it is something worth looking at.
CantLoseHope - I am still scared, worried that this is giving me false hope, etc. I am asking for any advice anyone can give me of where to go from here?
In my post, I wasn't trying to give you specific advice on what to say or what to do. What I really want you to do is to acknowledge the fear that you have. And then figure out how to move beyond that fear. Your fear comes from a lack of control. You are trying to control the situation but the truth is that you can't control his actions and you can't control his thoughts. You can only control yourself.
And the 180, when put into place, gives you the power that you are lacking. It gives you the tools that will help you develop your own inner strength to get past the fear of the unknown. It gives you control over your life.
Right now, your still in this "if/when" mode and that a passive power position, where he controls the situation. He makes the decision when to come and visit and if he comes to visit. That gives him all the power over your life.
If you were practicing the 180, the "if/when" would be replaced with a "for sure/now" mode and if your needs were not met, you would deal with his failure by making firm decisions on your own terms.
I truly do hope that your H comes around. But after a year of fence sitting, personally, I have my doubts. If he was in IC, if you said he was showing by consistent actions in support of his words that a journey of healing was in place, then I would give you better odds but from your posts, it seems that he is not there. And I feel that until you put the 180 into play, he will continue to remain there. JMHO.
Those decisions that are truly significant are only confronted once.... the opportunity never returns and you must do it right the first time - Mara Delone