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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: No sex for you
1bigidiot79
♂ Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, February 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like an ass for bringing this up but at some point it is a valid question in my opinion. My BW has been no physical contact from the beginning. I've only been able to kiss her on the cheek good night for a couple weeks now and we are going on 7 months since Dday and 8 months since the last time we were together.

I am trying to do everything I can for her but she still says she can't even imagine the thought of me touching her again. When I am close to her or touch her in any way it almost kills me. Frustrated is an understatement at this point. For any of you who didn't do HB how long did it take before your feelings about sex start to change?

I've expressed my desires but nothing is even close to happening in this department. Ugh.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 160 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:18 PM, February 12th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In case she hasn't articulated it, many BS's experience a string of horrific mind movies when they consider sex with their WS. They actually picture the WS and AP engaged in just about anything and everything, and the humiliation and pain is intense.

There was a point shortly after DDay where I was thinking that I might never have sex with FWH again. I told him that it was a very real possibility, and he responded with sadness and compassion. It didn't last, but it sure went a hell of a long way that he wasn't being selfish while I was in a hurricane of emotions.

I get that you are frustrated and I understand why - it makes sense. This is a long time to "go without." It's not her fault, though, and you need to look at it like that for both your sakes. Sex is an important part of a healthy marriage - it sounds like you need to focus on getting back to healthy before she will be ready to be intimate with you.

I want to encourage you to talk to her about it, but with the express understanding that you are not being punished so much as she is physically and emotionally miserable. Your desires should be secondary to the fallout caused by your affair - for now.

She may need things other than touch to stimulate her. Help lift her up, and perhaps she will come around to wanting to start to be close again.



You will have bad times, but they will always wake you up to the stuff you weren't paying attention to. - Robin Williams

Posts: 16805 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 12:26 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to encourage you to talk to her about it, but with the express understanding that you are not being punished so much as she is physically and emotionally miserable. Your desires should be secondary to the fallout caused by your affair - for now.

I second this strategy. For now.

I can tell you from experience that after about two years of suppressing your libido and desire for your BS, it becomes less of a concern.

After four years you hardly ever think about it.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 382 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
grains
♂ Member
Member # 32590
Default  Posted: 1:50 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Intimacy is very important in a marriage. It is beyond the sexual act. Maybe intimacy is what you are looking for. Confusing sex for intimacy can lead to frustration and later resentment. Please consider seeing an MC or IC or even spiritual mentor. Jrazz is right in keeping in mind that your BS' no sex reaction is more about her suffering from what you have caused. It is difficult to accept but everything takes second place to that. I wish you recovery and reconciliation.


WH 60
BS 50
No Children
Together 17 years
Married 7/21/2001
D-day 03/01/2011

Posts: 313 | Registered: Jun 2011
Sammy2013
♀ Member
Member # 41040
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, please listen to what slowuptake said. This is a huge wall between my WH and it will be the reason we probably won't survive this. I found out 3 weeks ago about more OW and prostitutes and he doesn't understand why sex is so hard for me because we were making live prior (I was actually healing from what I thought was only one affair). He believes I am punishing him, which couldn't be further from the truth. I am fighting a demon in me on this. The mind movies, feeling inadequate, etc. Please, look for intimacy on another level with her first. If my WH would just stop and show some compassion and understanding I would have hope. Please, I beg you for your wife's sake.


WH -37; BS (me) 38
Married 12 years, 3 kiddos
First DDay 9/13. 3 more since then (trickle truth sucks). 6 years of Prostitutes, 2 affairs in 2013, SA diagnosis now with 1 relapse so far (massage parlor with happy ending 2/14).
Waiting, observing,

Posts: 208 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Southeast United States
1bigidiot79
♂ Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 6:32 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally understand what you guys are saying about what intimacy really is and how it's different than sex. Yes I do want sex but I just want her and that closeness to her so much more.

I have been attending to her needs as best I know how and she even says I'm doing everything I can and there's nothing else she needs me to do. I just miss her. I try to be empathetic and understanding as much as possible and show her compassion as well. She just can't seem to get past it all.

The other thing that hurts is even though I'm treating this as infidelity (because I think it is) I did not sleep with another person. It was porn for the length of our relationship and the fact that I lied to her about it the entire time. Just like every other aspect of our relationship trying to heal, this is her perception therefore it is our reality so I know I have to deal with it that way.

Just trying to be patient. I know that forcing the issue isn't going to help. Thanks for the replies.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 160 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The other thing that hurts is even though I'm treating this as infidelity (because I think it is) I did not sleep with another person.
My WS's A's were "just" EA's. Nothing physical happened. But that doesn't prevent my mind from imagining what may have happened if I hadn't caught it when I did and during sex sometimes, my mind will play scenes from him and the two girls he had EA's with even though there wasn't any physical touching and one was purely on the internet. I don't even know what the one girl looks like! But my mind will think of him maybe wanting these girls, if he thought about them in his mind, if he had sex with them in his head. And it makes me ill.

I honestly think sometimes I must be masochistic or something because I don't want these thoughts, but they are still there. I try hard to put them out of my mind, but sometimes my mind just keeps going.

With porn, you absolutely WERE thinking about sex with other women. (My last H was a porn addict) so even though I knew those women weren't real and were airbrushed or whatever, I knew he was imagining touching them, kissing them, and more. And the images in porn are impossible for real women to live up to. Real women have wrinkles, spots, cellulite, a little too much fat here or there. And no matter how many times a guy says that I am enough and those are just pictures, in our culture, for me, if I feel I am competing with a perfect image on a screen I won't even try because it is hopeless.

Also, the lying and secrecy makes many of us feel that our relationship wasn't real. We thought we were having one type of relationship when really it was something else.

For me, opening up sexually to someone means I have to trust that person almost with my life. It is me at my most vulnerable and I won't do it if I am afraid of getting hurt. So for me, the way my WS is combating that is by doing EVERYTHING in his power to help me feel safe again. No matter what I ask for, how insane it sounds (at least to me), he acknowledges that I am not insane and that he is totally dedicated to me no matter what it takes. I am starting to believe him again.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15187 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
heforgotme
♀ Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've expressed my desires but nothing is even close to happening in this department.

If I were you, I wouldn't push this point. Imo, the more you push, the bigger of an issue it becomes and the scarier it becomes.

Instead, maybe try to truly understand why she feels this way and then let her know that you understand. The first time we hugged after Dday, fWH got tears in his eyes and said, "Omg, I don't know how you even let me touch you". This let me know that he understood how hard things were for me and made progressing from there easier. So, maybe you could find ways to let her know that you understand and don't blame her.

How is everything going otherwise?

Does no physical contact mean no sex, or no anything? Can you hold hands? Anything? If she is allowing some sort of touch, for now I would make SURE it doesn't turn sexual. That will make her feel safer in allowing it. And make her feel like you are on her side.

Good luck.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1075 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
1bigidiot79
♂ Member
Member # 40557
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does no physical contact mean no sex, or no anything? Can you hold hands? Anything? If she is allowing some sort of touch, for now I would make SURE it doesn't turn sexual. That will make her feel safer in allowing it. And make her feel like you are on her side.
So far the only contact we have had is me putting my arm around her and kissing her on the top of the head or maybe cheek. She doesn't pull away but absolutely does not reciprocate. No holding hands and no initiation of contact from her of any kind.

I definitely am not pushing this, just trying to gauge and better understand what she is going through. I've only expressed my desire to let her know she's the one I want and that I am here for her and that part of our relationship is special to me even though I did what I did. Just trying to reinforce that I care about her and just want to re establish that closeness and intimacy with her.


DDay 7/23/13
TT on 3/5/14 - Finally came completely clean
Finally working on making real changes in my life, one day at a time.

Posts: 160 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: United States
HardenMyHeart
♂ Member
Member # 15902
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So far the only contact we have had is me putting my arm around her and kissing her on the top of the head or maybe cheek. She doesn't pull away but absolutely does not reciprocate. No holding hands and no initiation of contact from her of any kind.

It sounds to me that she is either punishing you or has checked out of the relationship. My guess would be the latter.

The other thing that hurts is even though I'm treating this as infidelity (because I think it is) I did not sleep with another person. It was porn for the length of our relationship and the fact that I lied to her about it the entire time.

IMO, what your relationship is experiencing is not infidelity related. There is something else going on here. After 8 months of this, you need to accept this as your new reality and decide whether you want to live in a cold, dispassionate, sexless marriage.

At this point, your best hope at saving the marriage is MC...and you better find a good one.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 10:06 AM, February 13th (Thursday)]


Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Posts: 5631 | Registered: Aug 2007
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't necessarily think she is either punishing you nor checked out. She is protecting herself from further harm. She's been traumatized. She cannot trust that you won't destroy her again.

Time. Day in and day out, showing her that you are there, present and safe. It may help.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3377 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Jovie
♀ Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tend to agree with Harden.

But it's really very difficult for me to relate to viewing porn as infidelity. And I'm not a BS so it's also difficult to relate to the feeling of betrayal.

Is she in IC to deal with her feelings on this? Has she been able to express what she is afraid of? Is she worried you'll be thinking of porn when you're with her? Or that you will go back to it eventually and hurt her again?


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 211 | Registered: Jan 2014
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Porn felt like infidelity to me. His needs were met, while mine weren't. he had no interest in me, at all. His preference of masturbating to images on a screen over being intimate with me was devasting to my self esteem.

[This message edited by steadfast1973 at 12:42 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
trytoforgive
♀ Member
Member # 27330
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can understand that porn can be traumatizing, and I know that everyone's story is very painful, and maybe I missed something. Did you have an actual, physical affair or emotional attachment to someone throughout the course of your addiction to porn?


Me- W 38
Him- H 40
Long time lurker...Sometimes poster...
DDay 8/14/2009

DD 15
DS 10


Posts: 452 | Registered: Jan 2010
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has she tried to explain where she is in her process? I think it's important to discuss whether this is something she wants to work with you to overcome, or whether she is indeed checking out.

Like I said before, this needs to be addressed with compassion and sympathy. It needs to be addressed either way, because your concerns are definitely valid. The key here is to see if you can help her heal to the point where she wants it. Only she can tell you if she feels this is a possibility, and you gotta give her more time on this, I think.


You will have bad times, but they will always wake you up to the stuff you weren't paying attention to. - Robin Williams

Posts: 16805 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
IHeartSuffering
♂ New Member
Member # 42106
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm confused as well. If all we are talking about is porn use, and there were no other people involved, why would you treat this as infidelity?

Did you deny her sex and intimacy over porn? Or did you use porn to augment a sex life that wasn't meeting your needs?

It's a big difference.


Me: BH
Reconciled in Mar 2010
4 kids
DDay #1: Sept 6, 2007
So many DDays and false R's.
2 affairs, 2 lengthy separations

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2014
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm confused as well. If all we are talking about is porn use, and there were no other people involved, why would you treat this as infidelity?

There are many members here who feel they have been betrayed by a spouse who indulged in pornography. It is a widely, albeit not universally, identified form of infidelity if the spouses are not in agreement as to its usage. Emotional Affairs are another. Although there is no physical contact, the giving of oneself to another by the Wayward Spouse in any manner is considered a betrayal.

When a WS turns to images of other people for physical stimulation without the consent of their partner, it is considered a sexual betrayal.

The bottom line is that it is not for us to judge who has broken boundaries and vows and who has not. 1bigidiot79 is here because his wife feels betrayed by his behavior and he is trying to do what he can to repair the damage.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:50 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]


You will have bad times, but they will always wake you up to the stuff you weren't paying attention to. - Robin Williams

Posts: 16805 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you deny her sex and intimacy over porn? Or did you use porn to augment a sex life that wasn't meeting your needs?

It's a big difference.

I am sure my WH convinced himself of the latter... but I assure you it was the former. The latter is just an excuse.

Either way, if his wife saw it as a betrayal, then that is what it was, regardless of your opinion, or mine, for that matter.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Total t/j so sorry, but every time I see this topic I see the Soup Nazi saying "No sex for you!" and it makes me laugh, but it so not funny. end t/j

I feel this would be an untenable situation for me, 1bigidiot79.

she still says she can't even imagine the thought of me touching her again.
While I agree that for some BS's it takes a while to be able to have sex again, if they aren't making any progress towards that, I would start to wonder if she isn't using this as a punishment.

I do feel that many BW's do use sex (or lack thereof) as a weapon/punishment. As a matter of fact, many WW's do the same. I am not saying your wife is, but this really needs to be discussed. Frankly.

In order to fully reconcile, you need to be having sex.(unless it is medically impossible) That is how a couple really connects. With your BW not letting you have any physical contact at all (ie, no kissing, no hugging, etc.), it is really hard to get back to that intimate connection again.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9492 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
refuz2bavictim
♀ Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, February 13th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The comparison factor regarding porn is infinitely difficult for some BS. Porn is widely accepted and widely available. We are told time and time again how it isn't a big deal, how we should not feel hurt and how its just not the same as cheating.
And I can tell you that the times I have been the least attracted to my FWH were after I discovered his use of porn.

The discoveries of Porn did not result in HB.

I was completely repulsed. NO punishment involved. I was so utterly disgusted by his ability to get off to pixels and imagery, when I was a willing partner that the thought of touching him was repulsive. The thought of his hands on me, reduced me to a tool. This was about me preserving my own sense of self. Not at all about punishment.

I knew for a fact he could not verify the source of the images he was using. I knew that they could be from girls or women who had been forced into the industry.
I knew that he didn't give a shit where they came from and that he was willing to ignore the source for a few seconds of physical gratification. NOT a turn on in any sense.

As long as I suspect his mind of having interest in that, I have no attraction to him sexually. My lack of attraction is a direct result of my feelings about porn. I can not feel secure and safe with a man who acts in direct conflict with my value system. I can't be intimate with someone who actively engages in the viewing of pornography.

Please know that many people share those feelings, just as others do not. I assure you that those feelings have little to do with punishment. For me, and I suspect for others as well, this is about preserving my sense of self.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
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